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Old 02-27-2009, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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In no way is Vrabel and Cassel worth 3rd overall. That's just stupid.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Its really going to be Brady and Vrabel to the Chiefs for our first round pick and NE keeps Cassel as their QBOTF the Cassel talk is just a smoke screen you heard it here first... :)
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat420 View Post
Its really going to be Brady and Vrabel to the Chiefs for our first round pick and NE keeps Cassel as their QBOTF the Cassel talk is just a smoke screen you heard it here first... :)
You're out of your mind lol. Maybe Brady+Vrabel for All of KC's draft picks this year, even then I'd be uneasy about it. lol.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Cassel could be worth #3 if you look at it from the perspective of:

- Matt Ryan was #3 overall and was instrumental in Atlanta going from #3 to the playoffs

- If you keep the pick, you're essentially paying the same amount of money for Aaron Curry or Brian Orakpo or Mark Sanchez.

That said, I don't want the #3 pick, I'd rather get the value elsewhere.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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You'd also have to think Cassel was a franchise QB and not just the product of a stacked team like the Patriots.

Most QBs would look solid behind that line and throwing to Welker and Moss.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Cassell + Vrabel for KC 1st. Teams swap draft picks in 5th round.

Pats could do anything with that pick. Aaron Curry, Brian Orakpo, trade down and still pick up Everette Brown + a 3rd rounder.

Would love to see this happen
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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I still don't get why you think that's a good deal for the Chiefs. You move up in the 5th and you get the 3rd overall pick and we get a 33 year old linebacker (who will be 34 before the season starts) and Cassel?

Give me a break.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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It's all contingent on whether or not you like Cassel better than the prospects available. If the Chiefs think they need a quarterback and don't like Sanchez or even Stafford for that matter and they like Cassel why not use their pick to get Cassel. Cassel is only a few years older and has a year of experience starting in the NFL under his belt. He has as much potential as either of those guys and, arguably, a lower risk of busting. People value draft picks way, way too highly. I like what the bucaneers seem to be doing this year, they don't really like the prospects available so their using their picks to get players that they like.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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I see nothing wrong with the trade. Cassell is as good a prospect as Sanchez, if the Chiefs think that they need a QB, then why not get him and pick up a decent veteran on the other side as well.

I don't like when people say a guy is a product of the system. So what if the Pats have a good OL and receivers, shouldn't that be the aim of every offense? Is it really a good idea to try and rely on a QB if you dont have a line? Is there a QB out there that has done well behind a line that is awful or bad. Teams like Minny, Chicago, Detroit, Raiders and Chiefs all put their QBs in to bad positions and then wonder why they struggle so much. Chiefs have the makings of a solid line, they have a great TE, very good young WR, if they can pick up a couple more linemen they are well on their way to having a line every bit as talented as the Pats.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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I'd bring a sign saying BRING BACK KING CARL! if hey pull that dumb move.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Of course being a product of the system you're in should factor. Every team should want to have the same kind of OL and weapons that the Pats do, but many teams don't.

It's all about how the individual views Cassel. I don't see him as a franchise QB. I think there is a lot more upside to a Stafford or even a Sanchez. If we were to draft Sanchez or Stafford at 3 overall they could sit a year and learn the offense, learn the pro game. If we trade for Cassel he is going to start and right now I'm not sure who would be successful with our offense.
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:36 AM    (permalink
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I really hope that trade rumor is just a rumor. The Cheifs are another good draft or two away from returning to the top of the division.
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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Why would Belichek hate Mangini? Mangini is one of Belichek's best coordinators.
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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Whoa, whoa...Hold the horses...

I heard earlier in the day that it would be a 6th or 7th for Vrabel straight up...but there are more and more signs pointing to some package deal for Cassel. The supposed trade would go down like this:

KC Gets:
Pat's 1st
Vrabel
Cassel

Pats get:
KC's 1st and Third

And then maybe a late round swap of picks.

At least, that's the word on the street :D
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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KC Gets:
Pat's 1st
Vrabel
Cassel

Pats get:
KC's 1st and Third
:D
No Thanks.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae-KC View Post
Of course being a product of the system you're in should factor. Every team should want to have the same kind of OL and weapons that the Pats do, but many teams don't.

It's all about how the individual views Cassel. I don't see him as a franchise QB. I think there is a lot more upside to a Stafford or even a Sanchez. If we were to draft Sanchez or Stafford at 3 overall they could sit a year and learn the offense, learn the pro game. If we trade for Cassel he is going to start and right now I'm not sure who would be successful with our offense.
The Chiefs are a couple tweaks along the OL and another receiving option away from having a damn good offense if they had a good QB. Cassel's a really good fit. I hope the Chiefs get him. He's a leader, has the proper demeanor for a franchise QB, reads defenses, goes through progressions, has all the physical tools, and is renowned for his work ethic.

Tony G & Bowe isn't far off from Welker & Moss...
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Its really going to be Brady and Vrabel to the Chiefs for our first round pick and NE keeps Cassel as their QBOTF the Cassel talk is just a smoke screen you heard it here first... :)
yes and have him bring Gisele too :D
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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Of course being a product of the system you're in should factor. Every team should want to have the same kind of OL and weapons that the Pats do, but many teams don't.

It's all about how the individual views Cassel. I don't see him as a franchise QB. I think there is a lot more upside to a Stafford or even a Sanchez. If we were to draft Sanchez or Stafford at 3 overall they could sit a year and learn the offense, learn the pro game. If we trade for Cassel he is going to start and right now I'm not sure who would be successful with our offense.
I would disagree with this.Matt Cassel had some success at the NFL level I would take him over a rookie
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Hopefully this means people on this site will finally stop arguing with me when I say KC is moving to a 3-4. It's f'n obvious considering Pioli has never been with an organization that did not run a 3-4, but I'm this move should put the argument to rest.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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In no way is Vrabel and Cassel worth 3rd overall. That's just stupid.
I agree now if we swap first round picks as well then maybe I could see but I still would be a little up set.

I'm not a Cassel hater I do feel he could be a solid starter but if you draft a guy top 3 you are going to want a little more then solid.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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I agree now if we swap first round picks as well then maybe I could see but I still would be a little up set.

I'm not a Cassel hater I do feel he could be a solid starter but if you draft a guy top 3 you are going to want a little more then solid.
I wonder if it could be a conditional 2nd for '10 that based on preformance can go to a 1st
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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I think the proper value for Cassel is a mid first and a later or 2010 pick or an early-to-mid-2nd round pick and a conditional 2010 pick that could become a first rounder.

But, as far as the main topic of the thread goes...hopefully Mike Vrabel will come in with a clear mind and great attitude. He can help the Chiefs form a winner and be a good stop-gap at both ILB and OLB as the Chiefs work themselves into a 3-4 base.

Chiefs fans will love him. He's Jared Allen without the DUI's - personality-wise.
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Old 02-28-2009, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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With Pioli on one end and Belichick on the other I'm surprised they even announced that Vrable was traded. I would've expected it to be "An undisclosed Patriots player was traded to the Chiefs for an Undisclosed draft pick." It woudl be months before we would find out who had been traded and for what
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Old 02-28-2009, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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I love this trade, as long as its a 5th of less. We need someone on that D who is a winner and knows what it takes on the field and in the meetings to successfully run a 3-4.

And if we can get Cassel, we need to get him. I don't even know if NE would want our #3 pick even if we offered it. The $ is outrageous for these top picks.

We may have to give up our 2nd and a conditional next year. This is probably better for NE. I would rather swap 1st's than give up that early second.
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:07 PM    (permalink
McBain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy View Post
Basically think of it this way:

- Patriots likely would have released Vrabel
- Vrabel would be courted by Eric Mangini
- Belichick does not like Mangini
- Pioli runs Chiefs, a very young team
- Pioli needs 3-4 pieces and veteran leadership
- Belichick likes Pioli
- Trade for a 4th-5th
- ???
- Profit!
Think of it this way.

-belichick is satan
-belichick uses his satanic charm to convince pioli to go the chiefs
-the chiefs become the patriots farm team
-belichick sends aging veterens for high picks.
-has a double securing a young nucleus of players to dominate the nfl
-belichick and pioli come out of the closet and rule the nfl hand in hand

I'm thinking i'll turn it into an illustrated childrens book.
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