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Old 03-02-2009, 02:21 AM    (permalink
gpngc
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Default *An NFL Player Rating Project*

*In a collaborative effort to quantify the unquantifiable, let's rate NFL players.

*This is for the "X is better than Y" arguments. Let's try to get to some consensus as to who is better between X and Y. Obviously, most arguments will have to end with an agreement to disagree. That's OK- just leave it at that- I'll try to make one unbiased final call on the rating.

*Ratings are subjective- remember this too! There are no right answers. There will always be some level opinion in a rating, but we are aiming for the best interpretation of the "rating" of each NFL player.

*What we are rating- Production (stats + non-statistical performance), skills, talent, intangibles, athleticism, success- WE ARE NOT ADJUSTING RATINGS BASED ON OFF-FIELD OR TEAM CHEMISTRY-RELATED ISSUES because we don't know the real story of each and every individual involved with every situation.

*Obviously it will be tough to rate players who haven't played much (Owen Schmitt), but we'll do our best to project (this is a draft site, right?)

*I want feedback and help but don't blast anyone for rating people incorrectly in your opinion. Provide an argument why he should be rated higher or lower and if the proof is there along with others that agree, the rating will change.

*Overall ratings. Here is the scale:

Quote:
99 = Elite HOF player in the prime of his career. Probably THE greatest ever at his position. Dominant beyond comprehension. Think Michael Jordan. No one in the league is currently there.

98 = Elite HOF player in the prime of his career with everything in his game. Minor flaws that make him human.

95-97 = Only the best players in the league. These are probable HOF talents with little or no weaknesses. This rating is not thrown around to every pro bowler.

90-94 = Most "star" players will fit in this category. An all-pro talent with few weaknesses.

86-89 = Arguably all-pro talent but with some questions. Solid starter-quality players at the very least.

80-85 = Solid starter-level talent.

75- 79 = Fringe starter/solid reserve-level talent.

70-74 = Solid reserve-level talent.

60-70 = A reserve-level player not best suited to start.

50-60 = A fringe reserve-level player who could either just play specials or be on the practice squad.

<50 = Bad player.
*These should not be like Madden ratings (where everyone is rated way too high).

*Extra notes
(U) = Upside. This isn't for every young player. This is for guys who have shown so much that they could potentially move up to the elite level of their position (88-99 range). Think Matt Ryan, Calvin Johnson, Ryan Clady or Adrian Peterson.

I'll start with the QBs to get the ball rolling:

QB
P. Manning, Colts- 98
T. Brady, Patriots- 98
D. Brees, Saints- 93
T. Romo, Cowboys- 88 (Lower?)
P. Rivers, Chargers- 87
J. Cutler, Broncos- 87
D. McNabb, Eagles- 87
K. Warner, Free Agent- 86
C. Palmer, Bengals- 86
B. Roethlisberger, Steelers- 85 (Higher?)
E. Manning, Giants- 84
A. Rodgers, Packers- 84
M. Hasselbeck, Seahawks- 83
M. Ryan, Falcons- 83 (U)
M. Schaub, Texans- 80
M. Bulger, Rams- 80
K. Collins, Titans- 79
D. Garrard, Jaguars- 79
C. Pennington, Dolphins- 79 (Lower?)
J. Flacco, Ravens- 78
M. Cassel, Chiefs- 77
J. Delhomme, Panthers- 76
J. Campbell, Redskins- 76
T. Edwards, Bills- 74
J. Russell, Raiders- 74
S. Hill, 49ers- 73
S. Rosenfels, Vikings- 72
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:32 AM    (permalink
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Roethlisberger an 85?

Romo, Cutler and Rivers deserve better ratings because?
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:39 AM    (permalink
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Chad Pennington's not even a solid started? That's funny. I wonder how a fringe level starter had the second best QB rating in the league. I'd say he's mid-high 80's at least. These categories confuse me though, just cause a person isn't in the "prime" of there career doesn't mean they can't still be amongst the best.
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:42 AM    (permalink
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Personally I'd put Hasselbeck at a 87 or so.

I'll try a few MLB's I guess since it's my favorite position. I'm not doing this in order of who I think is in the top 5 or top 10.

Patrick Willis - 94
Ray Lewis - 94
Brian Urlacher - 92
Jon Beason - 92
Lofa Tatupu - 90
Demeco Ryans - 89
Jerod Mayo - 89 (I really love this guy already)
James Farrior - 87
Jon Vilma - 86




I'll work on this more later.
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too bad the Sea hawks are starting Hasselback and not Whitehorsest (sp)They are gonna loose any ways .
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:54 AM    (permalink
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Barrett Ruud - 99
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Old 03-02-2009, 03:12 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphinfan2k5 View Post
Chad Pennington's not even a solid started? That's funny. I wonder how a fringe level starter had the second best QB rating in the league. I'd say he's mid-high 80's at least. These categories confuse me though, just cause a person isn't in the "prime" of there career doesn't mean they can't still be amongst the best.
I think I'm for bumping up Penny a little bit. I think 80 is fair. Anyone else?

Also on second glance think Romo is too high at 88.

A 99 does not mean a player is amongst the best. It means he is the best RELATIVE to the history of the league. Which is why he probably would be in his prime. I mean I guess it's possible that he's not, but...

Everyone is taking my ratings scale to literally- it is just there as a guideline so nickel CBs aren't rated 84.

As for the Big Ben 85. IDK- the QB debates are so difficult to come to a solid conclusion on. Team success is a small part of the criteria but the rating is simply "who is better". If you ask me, Cutler is better than Ben even though Ben has had more success. This is where the debate gets hairy/fun. What does everyone else think about the Rivers/Romo/Cutler/Ben quagmire? The thing is I'm pretty sure if you asked 5 people there would be 5 different rankings of the players... should we just rank them all 87 and get on with it? That's what this project is for us to decide...
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:07 AM    (permalink
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C. Palmer - 99
C. Ocho Cinco - 99

YES, THAT JUST HAPPENED.

No, but in all honestly I think rankings are hard in the NFL because it's such a team sport. in the NBA you might have 1 player who can just dominate a court by himself, but that's clearly not true in the NFL. Would certain QB's be ranked higher if they had better running backs, better receivers, better offensive linemen or even a better defense (or... a worse defense?)

Anyways, it can still be a neat concept, but I just always found that football is the hardest sport to rank players in.
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:09 AM    (permalink
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One problem I have with rating players is how many players fluctuate from game to game, season to season. Kurt Warner went from best QB in the league to dealing with health issues and not playing particularly well to back to pro bowl calibre. Guys like Eli Manning and DeAngelo Hall can play like Pro Bowlers one game and stink the next.

Also, durability needs to be part of the evaluation. A guy like John Abraham can be elite when healthy, but he also has seasons when he misses several games and takes a hit when on the field because of nagging injuries.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:12 AM    (permalink
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Daunte Culpepper 74
Kevin Smith 80
Jerome Felton 73
Calvin Johnson 96
Bryant Johnson 76
Michael Gaines 71
Jeff Backus 75
Stephen Peterman 68
Dominic Raiola 77
Edwin Mulitalo 73
Gosder Cherilus 73

Dwayne White 78
Cory Redding 81
Shaun Cody 65
Cliff Avril 71
Ernie Sims 84
Paris Lenon 72
Alex Lewis 71
Anthony Henry 73
Travis Fisher 67
Gerald Alexander 76
Kalvin Pearson 72

Jason Hanson 93
Nick Harris 75

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Old 03-02-2009, 06:19 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneToughGame View Post
Patrick Willis - 94
Ray Lewis - 94
Brian Urlacher - 92
Jon Beason - 92
Lofa Tatupu - 90
Demeco Ryans - 89
Jerod Mayo - 89 (I really love this guy already)
James Farrior - 87
Jon Vilma - 86
Ray is easily a 97 - the only thing that puts him outside of a 98 is that he's past his prime.

Willis has a long way to go before being on Lewis' level for a career.

And Tony Gonzalez might be a 99 I'm not sure about records and what not, but doesn't he hold most of them for TE's? He's probably the most dominant TE in a while at the very least.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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Seriously? Trent Edwards 74???
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbh15 View Post
Ray is easily a 97 - the only thing that puts him outside of a 98 is that he's past his prime.

Willis has a long way to go before being on Lewis' level for a career.

And Tony Gonzalez might be a 99 I'm not sure about records and what not, but doesn't he hold most of them for TE's? He's probably the most dominant TE in a while at the very least.
If this is based on strictly today, then 'for a career' and records doesn't really matter. 'he's probably the most dominant TE in a while'...stating some good stuff.

Sorry to be sarcastic, but this post doesn't seem to be on target to me.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
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I'll start with the QBs to get the ball rolling:

QB
P. Manning, Colts- 98
T. Brady, Patriots- 98
D. Brees, Saints- 93
T. Romo, Cowboys- 88 (Lower?)
P. Rivers, Chargers- 87
J. Cutler, Broncos- 87
D. McNabb, Eagles- 87
K. Warner, Free Agent- 86
C. Palmer, Bengals- 86
B. Roethlisberger, Steelers- 85 (Higher?)
E. Manning, Giants- 84
A. Rodgers, Packers- 84
M. Hasselbeck, Seahawks- 83
M. Ryan, Falcons- 83 (U)
M. Schaub, Texans- 80
M. Bulger, Rams- 80
K. Collins, Titans- 79
D. Garrard, Jaguars- 79
C. Pennington, Dolphins- 79 (Lower?)
J. Flacco, Ravens- 78
M. Cassel, Chiefs- 77
J. Delhomme, Panthers- 76
J. Campbell, Redskins- 76
T. Edwards, Bills- 74
J. Russell, Raiders- 74
S. Hill, 49ers- 73
S. Rosenfels, Vikings- 72
The last 4 shouldn't even be on the list.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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The last 4 shouldn't even be on the list.
last 5 shouldnt
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
If this is based on strictly today, then 'for a career' and records doesn't really matter. 'he's probably the most dominant TE in a while'...stating some good stuff.

Sorry to be sarcastic, but this post doesn't seem to be on target to me.
I don't take any offense, but nowhere does it say this is based strictly on today.

In fact, some of the ratings are based on being the greatest at a position all time.

I could understand your point otherwise, but I didn't understand this to be today's ratings.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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This is pointless. Everyone is going to cry and moan about their favorite players not getting the grade they want.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Patriots starters:

QB Tom Brady - 98
RB Laurence Maroney - 78
RB Fred Taylor - 74
WR Randy Moss - 92
WR Wes Welker - 87
TE Ben Watson - 75
LT Matt Light - 82
LG Logan Mankins - 85
C Dan Koppen - 84
RG Stephen Neal - 80
RT Nick Kaczur - 76

LE Ty Warren - 89
NT Vince Wilfork - 94
RE Richard Seymour - 92
LB Pierre Woods - 74
LB Tedy Bruschi - 75
LB Jerod Mayo - 89
LB Adalius Thomas - 86
CB Ellis Hobbs - 79
CB Tyrone Wheatley - 72
FS James Sanders - 79
SS Brandon Meriweather - 84

K Stephen Gostkowski - 93
P Chris Hanson - 80

Bonus:

QB Matt Cassel, Chiefs - 85
LB Mike Vrabel, Chiefs - 79
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Of course i think Philip Rivers deserves higher. Higher than Romo for sure.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Ethan Albright - 24
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:33 AM    (permalink
Go_Eagles77
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Since I'm bored I'll do the eagles.

Donovan McNabb - 85
Brian Westbrook - 87
Dan Klecko - 60
DeSean Jackson - 82
Kevin Curtis - 78
Jason Avant - 72
Brent Celek - 75
(Offensive Line is very confusing right now)
Todd Herremans - 80
Jamaal Jackson - 78
Shawn Andrews - 91
Stacy Andrews - 77
Nick Cole - 75
Max Jean-Gilles - 74

Trent Cole - 88
Darren Howard - 76
Juqua Parker - 80
Chris Clemons - 75
Victor Abiamiri - 72
Brodrick Bunkley - 82
Mike Patterson - 79
Akeem Jordan - 74
Stewart Bradley - 80
Chris Gocong - 75
Asante Samuel - 83
Sheldon Brown - 86
Joselio Hanson - 75
Quintin Mikell - 84
Quintin Demps - 68

David Akers - 75
Sav Rocca - 70
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:43 AM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Aaron Rodgers - I think he was fairly assessed an 84, so I'll stick with it. I'll add the (U) notation, though.
Ryan Grant - 82
Greg Jennings - 91 (U)
Donald Driver - 87
Donald Lee - 80

Not sure what the shake up of the O-Line will be by the start of the season and I'm not sure how our front seven will play with the switch to the 34 so I'll carry on to our secondary.

Charles Woodson - 95
Al Harris - 87
Nick Collins - 86 (U)
Atari Bigby - 77
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Ill Do giants

QB: E. Manning 87
RB: B. Jacobs 89
FB: M. Hedgecock 79
WR: P. Burress was 93 now is 86
WR: S. Smith 79.5
TE: K. Boss 76
OT: D. Diehl 87
OT: K. McKenzie 76
OG: R. Siebert 73
OG: C. Snee 91

DE: O. Umenyiora 89
DT: F. Robbins 76
DT: B. Coefield 78
DE: J. Tuck 90
OLB: M. Boley 84
MLB: A. Pierce 87
OLB: D. Clark 77
CB: C. Webster 85.5
CB: A. Ross 84
FS: K. Phillips 79.5
SS: M. Johnson 78

P: J. Feagles 100 ZOMGZ
K: Lawrence Tynes 2.0000001 x -1
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Thanks for everyone's input! When I get a chance I'll go through the info and put the data in the first post as a starting point. Would we prefer position rankings or team-by-team depth charts or both???

Clear some things up...

The ratings are what type of player you are RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND. Which means- John Abraham is healthy right now so he's an 89ish. The idea of the "history of the league" stuff is just to prove the point that the highest ratings are not taken lightly and are not given out to the best players in the league right now. What the point is, is to allow for Michael Jordan to get the 99 in the year 1996, not LeBron to get it in 2006 just because he is the best player in the league that year.

Ray Lewis is no where near a 97. He's somewhere in the 80's. But that's a perfect example. 2000 Ray Lewis would be a candidate for a 97 or maybe 98 but there is no ILB right now who is as good as he was then. Get it? Patrick Willis might be the best ILB in the league right now in relation to the other players, but in comparison to the 99 inhuman "perfect" MLB or the 97 2000 Ray Lewis, he stacks up as a 93 (U).

Again this is not career awards. This is a players value right now. It is a game-to-game league, which is why the best time to do this is the offseason.

This surely IS the most difficult sport to do this with, but it's the offseason and it makes for some good debates/interesting insight as to player value and how "good" they really are thought of to be.

Again, thanks to those who contributed!
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Saints:
QB Drew Brees 93
RB Reggie Bush 86(not as a rb only but he brings a LOT to the field)
RB Pierre Thomas 76
FB Mike Karney 84
TE Jeremy Shockey 82 (can play anything from 70-94)
LT Jammaal Brown 88
LG Carl Nicks 80
C Jonathan Goodwin 71
RG Jahri Evans 90
RT Jon Stinchcomb 76

DE Charles Grant 80
DE Will Smith 82
DT Sedrick Ellis 83
DT Kendrick Clancy 73
SLB Scott Fujita 79
WLB Scott Shanle 74
MLB Jonathan Vilma 87
CB Mike McKenzie 82 (iff healthy)
CB Tracy Porter 81
SS Roman Harper 80
FS Kevin Kaesviharn 1 (well really more like 68 or something)
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Snow storm in the East-got some time.
Team by team I'd say

Browns:

WR-Stallworth 73
OLT-J.Thomas 91
OLG-Steinbach 82
C-Fraley 78
ORG-Hadnot 72
ORT-Shaffer 75
TE-Heiden 79
WR-Edwards 86
QB-Quinn 80
RB-J.Lewis 82
FB-Vickers 80

DE-C.Williams 75
NT-Rogers 90
DE-R.Smith 76
LOLB-A.Hall 74
LILB-L.Williams 68
RILB-D.Jackson 84
ROLB-Wimbley 79
LCB-Wright 81
RCB-McDonald 80
SS-Sorenson 60
FS-Pool 80

RS-Cribbs 94

That was depressing.
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