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Old 03-02-2009, 09:37 AM    (permalink
bored of education
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Default Now that it has been a few days

What are your thoughts on the trade KC made? What are your thoughts on Cassel? Do you think bringing in Vrable shows that the team is definatly going to a 3-4?


I will give my thoughts 1st on Vrable. He has 2-3 years left of situational playing time. He is a proven winner and is very knowledgable of the 3-4. I think that KC is going to transition to a 3-4, whether it is this year or the next so bringing in a guy like Vrable can help the development of younger players.

The trade itself shows that the team does not believe Tyler Thigpen is the answer. he was servicable last year but you would be fooling yourself if you thought he weas a franchise signal caller. Should he have had the chance to prove himself, maybe or maybe not. Maybe last year was his chance.

The trade, whether you like Cassel or not was highway robbery. I valued Cassel and I was a hater of Cassel around the 18-20 range. Some people expected him to field talks of a mid 1st and something else (another pick or two). I value Vrable late 4th/early 5th. So the Chiefs got around 14-20 value for giving up the 34th pick. Its too early to tell who really wins..but just on paper Chiefs got the best of the deal.

I have heard rumors where people in high places in other organizations saying that Cassel has what it takes to be a top 5 QB, I almost **** myself hearing that. I think he is a solid Qb that may have a Hasselbeck type career (numbers wise) but I don't think he will be a top 5 QB for years to come. And Goddamnit I hope I am wrong lol.

I will get into it further after I watch more highlights, and game film of Cassel. Luckily my dad has 4-6 games DVRd lol. I will watch some of his games and break him down even greater.


The risk KC took? I like the overall deal. Would you rather Freeman in the 2nd or Cassel? So that can bring up some more debate as well.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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Old 03-02-2009, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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It's hard to argue with it. I felt much better even when Denver was trying to get him. I really was liking that 2nd round pick as there appeared to be great value there, but if Cassel is the answer at QB then there is nothing there that could match that value.

I have no interest at all in Josh Feeman. I can't understand the interest as the guy just looked way to raw in college for me. If we were going to use our pick on him then that makes this deal even better.

Overall this helps, but we haven't really done much else to address any holes and now with only 1 pick on the 1st day I imagine some moves are going to be made to stregthen the roster. I do wonder if Tony G will be traded now to get a 2nd round pick back if we can in fact get that much for him.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I also had Cassel in the early 20 range and felt Detroit made the most sense for him: draft LT and trade for Cassel. When I saw we traded the 34th for Cassel and Vrabel, I was amazed. It's great value for us, I think.

I never expected Thiggy to be a franchise signal caller; I see Doug Flutie. A guy that fans want to QB the team longer than is reasonable. Maybe he goes back to the bench and gets better. Maybe next year we can swing a Matt Schaub type trade for him.

The thing I like best is Curry/Cassel/Vrabel or Crabtree/Cassel/Vrabel works better for us than most combinations of Curry or Stafford and a second round pick.

One thing I hate hearing is how Bernard Pollard is the reason Cassel is a Chief. If Pollard didn't take Brady out, Cassel is a free agent that more than likely hits the market hoping to find a place to compete and Pioli is an obvious landing spot since he would have a few years of practice to know what Cassel could do. In my opinion, Pollard's hit made the Patriots a 34 pick and took away any chance Thigpen would have an open competition in training camp.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I love this trade.Cassel while he may not be a franchise QB can be a guy who can solidify the posistion for then next 10+years.heck he had pro bowl caliber numbers last year.Vrabel will be a healthier version of Donnie Edwards a vet LB who will teach the intricacies of the 3-4 to the LB's.

All in all to get Cassel and Vrabel for only one 2nd round pick I'd say Pioli pulled of a gem of a trade
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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First, I was deadset against Cassel if the compensation was going to be the 3rd overall pick, but, as the OP said, Cassel/Vrabel(le?) for just a 2nd round pick is indeed highway robbery. And while I am not at all convinced that Cassel is any good, I think that trade is definetely a very good one and a great one to make.

I am wondering if contract negotiations are taking place. The new management seems to be the type to want to see players consistently prove themselves, and I could see Cassel playing this season under the tag. I personally would rather see them do that, because if Cassel can perform again with a substantially less talented football team around him than that would prove himself to many, namely me. I would rather wait a little longer and give bigger bucks to one who is proven, then give any large amount of money to a QB who may flame out in a new situation.

I do feel bad that Thigpen was not afforded an opportunity to progress and compete for the job, but I think he is an excellent insurance policy, especially if he can improve his drop back passing. Maybe hopefully we can Schaub him in the future.
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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I liked the trade when it went down and I liked it even more when I found out what we gave up for him I know it is a risk but at that price it is a risk worth taking.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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Now after the Cutler deal, I think the Chiefs got a ******* deal!. A mid to late 2nd rounder for Cassel depending on how you value Vrabs.

In reality after the trade I would value Cutler as a 1st and 3rd, but the 1st as well thrown in doesn't help.

Cassel is not as physically gifted as Cutler but this makes me think even more so than before that Chiefs > all.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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Old 04-03-2009, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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I know, I thought of this too.

Jay Cutler, 5th round pick
FOR
1st round pick, 1st round pick, 3rd round pick, Kyle Orton

vs.

Matt Cassel, Mike Vrabel
FOR
2nd round draft pick
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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I love our position in the AFC West now. The Raiders are the Raiders, the Broncos just let a lot of talent leave the building.. the only real problem is the Chargers who have been underwhelming the last few years.

Not saying we're winning the division for sure, but this is a big step to that becoming a reality.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Definitely vidae-KC. Before the year started last year I had a bad feeling the season was going to be horrible. It was. This year I've got a feeling we can contend and compete this season for the division title.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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I think KC could sneak in at least 3 interdivisional wins! I am still interested where they go in the draft.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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I think KC could sneak in at least 3 interdivisional wins! I am still interested where they go in the draft.
My gut keeps telling me the Chiefs will do everything in their power to move down in the first round easier said then done but they will try.

I'm torn I really really want Curry but I also really really want a second round pick as well if we can some how stay in the top 10 and add a second that will be hard to pass up.
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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Good point Splat420. That would be very tempting to gain a 2nd round pick and a 1st round. In the end I hope we get Curry though, in this years draft he is one of the few that no one questions.
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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My gut keeps telling me the Chiefs will do everything in their power to move down in the first round easier said then done but they will try.

I'm torn I really really want Curry but I also really really want a second round pick as well if we can some how stay in the top 10 and add a second that will be hard to pass up.
Yeah, Curry would be an amazing pick, but if we somehow moved back and got an Orakpo or Brown and then had a second round pick to use on an OT/OG or LB like Laurinitis or Barwin, who might be there in the second? I'd rather do that personally.

It's hard to choose because Curry is a fantastic prospect and looks like he'd be a slam dunk pick.

I can't wait until draft day!
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we'll see any more 2 or 4 win fiasco seasons again, but I still think the talent is lacking, especially on defense. And the Chargers are still going to be good, and they are getting some injured personnel back so I expect them to be the top dogs in the division.

If Al Davis would just leave his coaches alone, I think the Raiders probably have enough talent to compete, but they are just too unstable.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae-KC View Post
Yeah, Curry would be an amazing pick, but if we somehow moved back and got an Orakpo or Brown and then had a second round pick to use on an OT/OG or LB like Laurinitis or Barwin, who might be there in the second? I'd rather do that personally.

It's hard to choose because Curry is a fantastic prospect and looks like he'd be a slam dunk pick.

I can't wait until draft day!
Ya, Curry's my #1, but what does he really do for the Chiefs? It's tough to justify taking a linebacker at #3 who will do the same job Gerald Hayes does...

Because they have Vrabel, they have a lot of options with how they address the LB situation. So I really don't think Curry should be the pick.

At #3, they'll be able to trade down within the Top 10. Someone is going to want to move up to get one of the guys that will be there at #3 (Curry, Stafford, OT, Orakpo, Raji). The Chiefs are in good shape. They'll pick up extra picks, not move down much, and probably be in a position to move down again if they want to.

If they do use the #3 or a Top 10, I've grown more and more on the idea of taking an OT. I think it's the biggest impact they can make on the team in the first round. Moving Albert to LG, and forming a dominant left side with either Monroe or Oher would do wonders for the Chiefs' offense.

If they have Vrabel play Mike, they have 7 rounds to find good rush LB's and ends (draft is loaded with them), and there are a lot of fun options at WR and TE (and RT if need-be). But this draft is weak at G, which might be a big need for the Chiefs.

I'd like to see them get an Eric Wood with the extra high pick they'd get in a trade-down. If they traded with the Browns or Bengals, they'd be in position for Oher.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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Ya, Curry's my #1, but what does he really do for the Chiefs? It's tough to justify taking a linebacker at #3 who will do the same job Gerald Hayes does...

Because they have Vrabel, they have a lot of options with how they address the LB situation. So I really don't think Curry should be the pick.

At #3, they'll be able to trade down within the Top 10. Someone is going to want to move up to get one of the guys that will be there at #3 (Curry, Stafford, OT, Orakpo, Raji). The Chiefs are in good shape. They'll pick up extra picks, not move down much, and probably be in a position to move down again if they want to.

If they do use the #3 or a Top 10, I've grown more and more on the idea of taking an OT. I think it's the biggest impact they can make on the team in the first round. Moving Albert to LG, and forming a dominant left side with either Monroe or Oher would do wonders for the Chiefs' offense.

If they have Vrabel play Mike, they have 7 rounds to find good rush LB's and ends (draft is loaded with them), and there are a lot of fun options at WR and TE (and RT if need-be). But this draft is weak at G, which might be a big need for the Chiefs.

I'd like to see them get an Eric Wood with the extra high pick they'd get in a trade-down. If they traded with the Browns or Bengals, they'd be in position for Oher.

I don't think they'd move Albert to Guard since they still have Waters and Goff on the roster. Maybe a line of Monroe, Waters, Center, Goff and Albert would be nice.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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I thought last year since we had holes all over the line they should have just put Albert at his natural position and pick up a tackle this year.
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Old 04-09-2009, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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Albert doesn't really have a natural position is the deal, though. Like I said, I really think he'd be an elite LG, and would allow the Chiefs to either use Goff as a backup or start him and ship Waters off for draft picks.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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Albert doesn't really have a natural position is the deal, though. Like I said, I really think he'd be an elite LG, and would allow the Chiefs to either use Goff as a backup or start him and ship Waters off for draft picks.
Albert could very well be on his way to being an elite LT that is alot harder to find then a elite LG I would not want to mess with that.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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They're equal. And an elite left side is far more valuable than just an elite LT.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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And an elite left side is far more valuable than just an elite LT.
We all ready have a pretty good LG last time I checked which has the making of one of the better left sides in football why mess with that?
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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No way Albert gets moved to Guard if anything he will be moved to RT. But I wouldn't mess with that. thats my take though.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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They're equal. And an elite left side is far more valuable than just an elite LT.
They are most definetely not equal.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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They are most definetely not equal.
I agree if the were you would see teams draft OG's top five in the draft like they do OT's pretty much every year.
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