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Old 03-16-2009, 12:00 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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I forgot.... aNYtitan and EF are automatically the first 2 on the list.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi View Post
Count ftw!

Also did the trade get vetoed?
Yes, it looks like the trade was vetoed.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi View Post
Count ftw!

Also did the trade get vetoed?
Yes it did. ...and I'm relieved in a way because Mauer has a mysterious back/spine/leg injury and I don't want to deal with that the rest of the year. I'm reading that he can't even run. Soto has a chance to emerge as the best C this year. He's only gonna get better.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Nobody has still given me a good ******* explanation on why it is such a bad trade? Comeon now, you can tell me.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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I forgot.... aNYtitan and EF are automatically the first 2 on the list.
Way to ruin my day.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by HinesWardJr View Post
Nobody has still given me a good ******* explanation on why it is such a bad trade? Comeon now, you can tell me.
The real reason is because you made it with me. :)

Any trade I make, people will tend to overreact. For the long term, you had that deal won by a mile. But people just look at the "now". And we both know that it looks better for me "now". ...IF Mauer is healthy ...but the real worry for me was Mauer. If Mauer is not healthy, then that deal really sucks for me. I'm not upset that it was vetoed.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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The real reason is because you made it with me. :)

Any trade I make, people will tend to overreact. For the long term, you had that deal won by a mile. But people just look at the "now". And we both know that it looks better for me "now". ...IF Mauer is healthy ...but the real worry for me was Mauer. If Mauer is not healthy, then that deal really sucks for me. I'm not upset that it was vetoed.
We both know that it works for you now, and me later. I had no problem with that. I have servicable players to work with untill those players are up. Just ******* stupid that everyone bashed me, but didn't give a good reason, or any reason on why they vetoed it.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by HinesWardJr View Post
Yes.

Hines gets:

C Geovanny Soto
P Huston Street
3B Pedro Alvarez
P Brett Anderson

D-Unit gets:

C Joe Maur
OF Jacoby Ellsbury
P Joakim Soria
Fine since you really want the reason why I vetoed it:

Soto/Mauer are more or less a wash, although I give the slight edge to Mauer over the five years or so as I think he'll be the 2nd best catcher in the majors over that span (you really don't need to ask who I think will be the best). Street is at best a decent closer and that's basically his ceiling as I doubt he'll ever get over his injury woes enough to be much of an elite closer. Anderson is going to be a solid pitcher but I'm not sure if he'll ever be in that elite category. Alvarez hasn't even played a professional level game yet for god sakes. As for D, he gets a guy who's going to be the best relief option for the next five years and Ellsbury who's a very solid OBP/SB threat in the outfield.

I know that this is basically for building for the future from your side Hines (since D REALLY focused on the future), but at this point in time it is unfair. Maybe if Anderson gets more than 30 innings above AA or Alvarez plays ONE professional game.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Fine since you really want the reason why I vetoed it:

Soto/Mauer are more or less a wash, although I give the slight edge to Mauer over the five years or so as I think he'll be the 2nd best catcher in the majors over that span (you really don't need to ask who I think will be the best). Street is at best a decent closer and that's basically his ceiling as I doubt he'll ever get over his injury woes enough to be much of an elite closer. Anderson is going to be a solid pitcher but I'm not sure if he'll ever be in that elite category. Alvarez hasn't even played a professional level game yet for god sakes. As for D, he gets a guy who's going to be the best relief option for the next five years and Ellsbury who's a very solid OBP/SB threat in the outfield.

I know that this is basically for building for the future from your side Hines (since D REALLY focused on the future), but at this point in time it is unfair. Maybe if Anderson gets more than 30 innings above AA or Alvarez plays ONE professional game.
Thanks for giving me your insight. I appreciate it.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Thanks for giving me your insight. I appreciate it.
My whole thing is when the trade is happening. Right now its March. Everyone should think they are going to compete this year. If you made this trade in July if you were towards the bottom of the rankings, I would not have cared as much. It's a very one sided trade as the prospects you are getting back will make extremely little impact this season.

I also think D is taking advatage of your crush on Alvarez.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Fine since you really want the reason why I vetoed it:

Soto/Mauer are more or less a wash, although I give the slight edge to Mauer over the five years or so as I think he'll be the 2nd best catcher in the majors over that span (you really don't need to ask who I think will be the best). Street is at best a decent closer and that's basically his ceiling as I doubt he'll ever get over his injury woes enough to be much of an elite closer. Anderson is going to be a solid pitcher but I'm not sure if he'll ever be in that elite category. Alvarez hasn't even played a professional level game yet for god sakes. As for D, he gets a guy who's going to be the best relief option for the next five years and Ellsbury who's a very solid OBP/SB threat in the outfield.

I know that this is basically for building for the future from your side Hines (since D REALLY focused on the future), but at this point in time it is unfair. Maybe if Anderson gets more than 30 innings above AA or Alvarez plays ONE professional game.
OK, but in a keeper league are we really going to base trades on the "now" factor being equal?
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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My whole thing is when the trade is happening. Right now its March. Everyone should think they are going to compete this year. If you made this trade in July if you were towards the bottom of the rankings, I would not have cared as much. It's a very one sided trade as the prospects you are getting back will make extremely little impact this season.

I also think D is taking advatage of your crush on Alvarez.
How do you know that they'll have extremely little impact this season? I mean you can guess that, but you don't know that as a fact. Anderson is looking like the 5th starter on the opening day roster. Reason why he wants Alvarez now versus later is because the longer he waits Alvarez's value could only go up. Once he's in the majors, the price tag sky rockets. ...and if Mauer is really hurt, then he kills me.

Just fighting the logic. Not the vote. I voted no on the trade myself last night after reading about Mauer. :D
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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How do you know that they'll have extremely little impact this season? I mean you can guess that, but you don't know that as a fact. Anderson is looking like the 5th starter on the opening day roster. Reason why he wants Alvarez now versus later is because the longer he waits Alvarez's value could only go up. Once he's in the majors, the price tag sky rockets. ...and if Mauer is really hurt, then he kills me.

Just fighting the logic. Not the vote. I voted no on the trade myself last night after reading about Mauer. :D
Chances say they will have very little impact. But you are right no one really knows. Which makes the trade worse, as you would have been getting three proven pieces for two lesser pieces and two unknowns. I get this is a keeper league, but at this point everyone should be trying to win this year. Who knows who will even do this league again next year.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Yes.

Hines gets:

C Geovanny Soto
P Huston Street
3B Pedro Alvarez
P Brett Anderson

D-Unit gets:

C Joe Maur
OF Jacoby Ellsbury
P Joakim Soria
VETO VETO VETO
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Nobody has still given me a good ******* explanation on why it is such a bad trade? Comeon now, you can tell me.
Mauer is the best catcher in the league, Stolen Bases are valuable, Alvarez/Anderson are prospects, Street sucked last year, and Joakim Soria is a top 5 RP.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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I repeat, i need a 3B really badly. PM me.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Chances say they will have very little impact. But you are right no one really knows. Which makes the trade worse, as you would have been getting three proven pieces for two lesser pieces and two unknowns. I get this is a keeper league, but at this point everyone should be trying to win this year. Who knows who will even do this league again next year.
The 2 unknowns are not really unknowns. Brett Anderson is a top 10 overall prospect by most including BA and he's been playing great this spring. Alvarez.. um... he's widely respected as a special talent.

By that logic... Weiters should be negatively looked at because he's "unproven"... Right? But who thinks that?

Ellsbury was recently in the shoes of Anderson and Alvarez but never had as much respect. Just goes to show how quickly these guys can emerge.

And as for Mauer... that situation was just too scary for me in the end. I had V-Mart in my league last year and he killed me. I didn't want that kind of situation this year dealing with Catcher injuries.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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The 2 unknowns are not really unknowns. Brett Anderson is a top 10 overall prospect by most including BA and he's been playing great this spring. Alvarez.. um... he's widely respected as a special talent.

By that logic... Weiters should be negatively looked at because he's "unproven"... Right? But who thinks that?

Ellsbury was recently in the shoes of Anderson and Alvarez but never had as much respect. Just goes to show how quickly these guys can emerge.

And as for Mauer... that situation was just too scary for me in the end. I had V-Mart in my league last year and he killed me. I didn't want that kind of situation this year dealing with Catcher injuries.
Well Ellsbury has so much more fantasy value than he has actual value to a real baseball. Mainly because the value of a stolen base is overrated in fantasy. Although not as much in this league, so you get kudos for that.

As for Weiters, he's about as much of a lock prospect as you will get. But even then he being overrated for fantasy purposes. The difference is most everyone agrees that Weiters will make a difference at some point this year.
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Well Ellsbury has so much more fantasy value than he has actual value to a real baseball. Mainly because the value of a stolen base is overrated in fantasy. Although not as much in this league, so you get kudos for that.

As for Weiters, he's about as much of a lock prospect as you will get. But even then he being overrated for fantasy purposes. The difference is most everyone agrees that Weiters will make a difference at some point this year.
Well, I believe Anderson will be in the majors before Weiters...

But that's not my main gripe. It's the fact that this is a keeper league and the mentality in judging trades is comparing them with values in the "now".

There is a missing element. We've already predetermined that this league will go on FOREVER. Not everyone will have the same strategy in this game. Some will value prospects more than others. Some want to hold onto players and have them develop and THEN keep or trade him. Or some may want to trade for a prospect with the same intentions before their value goes up. I don't think people get that. Everyone who rejected it is comparing current values. That isn't necessarily the right way to do it.
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Waiver priority updated.
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Well, I believe Anderson will be in the majors before Weiters...
I really doubt that.
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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I really doubt that.
Wanna make a friendly wager? At any point in the season the winner can decide when he wants to swap waiver priorities.
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Anderson could very well be up before Weiters, but I believe Weiters will have an actual impact on fantasy before Anderson does.
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Anderson could very well be up before Weiters, but I believe Weiters will have an actual impact on fantasy before Anderson does.
Well Weiters is the #1 prospect for a reason. So it's easy to assume that. But that's not what I was arguing in the first place. What I was arguing was the trade being vetoed based off current value in a keeper league.
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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What I am seeing from my club is alot of preperation for the future, a lot of looking at the wire at prospects that will be effective for 2010 and beyond. Many people on my team right now are on the block so just ask away.

I also agreed with every point Brodeur had about the trade, but I felt the possible potential of Alvarez outweighed the SB threat gotten from Elsbury, and Street and Soria is basically a wash, with Mauer and Soto being a wash too. Anderson will be solid, so getting him is a nice addition in the deal
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