Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Forum

Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Forum Discuss the Bucs

View Poll Results: Pick who you want at 19!
QB Josh Freeman 12 36.36%
DE Larry English 6 18.18%
DT Ron Brace 2 6.06%
LB Clay Matthews 3 9.09%
LB Brian Cushing 3 9.09%
CB Alphonso Smith 6 18.18%
CB DJ Moore 1 3.03%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-11-2009, 11:38 PM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default Choose the future Buc out of these guys...

I have been thinking about who is going to be there at 19 and I really think we are going to have to reach on someone, unfortunately. State your case for one of these players (only pick one out of this list) :

QB Josh Freeman (ugghh please no one pick him)
DE Larry English
DT Ron Brace
LB Clay Matthews
LB Brian Cushing
CB Alphonso Smith
CB DJ Moore
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 11:42 PM    (permalink
Brent
TomTom Out
Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 25,866
Reputation: 4718900
Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Not a Bucs fan but I said Smith because you guys need some help at CB. I'm probably wrong.
__________________

Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011
Brent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 12:32 AM    (permalink
lordquas
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: RI baby
Posts: 589
Reputation: -2776
lordquas lordquas lordquas lordquas lordquas lordquas lordquas lordquas
Default

Ziggy Hood will be the Bucs 1st pick.
__________________

Go Celtics
Go Irish
Go Ravens
lordquas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:27 AM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

DT's like Ziggy Hood and Peria Jerry do not fit what the Bucs will be doing in 2009. They need big uglies who can hold their gaps, not light DT's who can pass rush but will get pushed around in the running game.
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 02:33 AM    (permalink
Caddy
Team Leader
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aussie-Land
Posts: 19,980
Reputation: 2058751
Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm sorry if it offends you but I think Josh Freeman is one of the most logical picks along with a defensive tackle.
__________________

Caddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 02:07 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 290
Reputation: 99473
DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Alphonso Smith should be the best player available at #19, and it just so happens that CB is as big a need as we have on the roster.
DeadEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 09:41 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEagle View Post
Alphonso Smith should be the best player available at #19, and it just so happens that CB is as big a need as we have on the roster.
I agree.

Smith was my pick, but a lot of the guys on that list are not even on the discussion for me.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 06:52 PM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by etk View Post
I agree.

Smith was my pick, but a lot of the guys on that list are not even on the discussion for me.
Are Ron Brace and Clay Matthews not in the discussion for you? I included them because they fit our needs.

I think I should have added Robert Ayers because he seems to be climbing despite being a one year wonder.

I picked Larry English btw because we need a good DE opposite Adams and English can pass rush with the best of them. Alphonso Smith was my second choice, but I think Raheem is going to try and make a starter out of Elbert Mack.

As for Freeman, 99% of the world is now giving him to the Bucs and bringing up the Raheem-KSU connection as a reason why. It is not going to happen, Raheem knows as best as anyone that Freeman cant read a defense or make good quick decisions. A lot of people look good throwing in shorts, but good qbs need to have IT, and he doesnt have IT.
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 07:51 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
Are Ron Brace and Clay Matthews not in the discussion for you? I included them because they fit our needs.

I think I should have added Robert Ayers because he seems to be climbing despite being a one year wonder.

I picked Larry English btw because we need a good DE opposite Adams and English can pass rush with the best of them. Alphonso Smith was my second choice, but I think Raheem is going to try and make a starter out of Elbert Mack.

As for Freeman, 99% of the world is now giving him to the Bucs and bringing up the Raheem-KSU connection as a reason why. It is not going to happen, Raheem knows as best as anyone that Freeman cant read a defense or make good quick decisions. A lot of people look good throwing in shorts, but good qbs need to have IT, and he doesnt have IT.
Ron Brace - Not even close to a 1st round talent. I don't know where this talk is coming from, but you don't spend the 19th pick on a fat slob who can't move. I don't care what defense we're running, we're not spending a 1st round pick on John Goodman's long lost black cousin.

Larry English - Not the right fit. English is a RDE and backup to Adams. We don't need to spend a 1st rounder on a situational pass rusher. We need a good interior pass rusher and a balanced LDE (mid rounds).

Clay Matthews - Really like him in a 3-4. I don't think he fits what we're looking for in our LBs.

Brian Cushing - Don't like him in any defense. Really overrated.


Robert Ayers deserves some discussion, but I'd rather us draft Tyson Jackson. He's more versatile and has the frame/build I'm looking for. Ayers is similar to Greg White. But like I said earlier, I want to see us draft Jerry/Hood and take a LDE later, plus bring in a pass rush specialist like Stryker Sulak, Nick Reed, etc to provide depth behind Adams/White. Trading down would be EXTREMELY beneficial.

We need another CB regardless of what we think of Mack. Ronde is over-the-hill and Talib is no guarantee either. Alphonso Smith is a pretty safe pick and nets us a good starting CB in any scheme. Let Talib and Mack duke it out for the #2 spot down the road, cuz neither can touch Smith (or DJ Moore) imo. I think we can get a solid CB in the 2nd as well but that would require a trade down.

Here's the scenario (my dream draft) in clearer words:

Early 2nd: Jerry/Hood.
Late 2nd: Macho Harris
3rd: Paul Kruger
4th: Austin Collie
5th: Kaluka Maiava
6th: Sulak/Reed/Hunt
7th: OL depth (lol)

That fills our needs in the appropriate order with good fits for our team (imo).
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 12:18 AM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I agree about Brace, I was just throwing it out there.

I am not a fan of Cushing, but I do like Matthews even in a 4-3. I think he is going to be a solid pro.

I think we have to go either DE or CB (because the talent will be there unlike DT). I would draft English to start at RE since Adams has most of his success on the left anyway. Having two book ends like that would really help this defense, especially considering the DTs dont pass rush in Bates' scheme.

I dont like Tyson Jackson for us because his pass rushing is limited and both of our ends need to be monsters in pass rush. So yeah I would go with English or Ayers in the 1st, and a good man CB in the third (its a deep class so there should be someone there). Go into 2009 with Hovan and Sims starting at DT (I know it sucks but what else can we do?) and try to improve the DT position next year :(
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 11:58 AM    (permalink
DJC
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,590
Reputation: 30921
DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DJC is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't think we go CB in round 1. I think Raheem has a plan there for next year. There's a reason why we told P-Buc he'd be a 3rd stringer if he came back and let him walk, and didn't make any significant push to get a starting caliber CB in FA. I think he's comfortable with Barber starting for another year and Mack as the nickel, or maybe he knows something we don't know and Mack is ready to start. Either way, even though I wouldn't mind Alphonso or Moore, I don't think that's our first pick.

On the DLine, I think we can all agree we need help. It's just the type of players that we're going to get that help from is the debate. I think Larry English is much more likely than a Tyson Jackson type. Look at the DE's in Bates past systems. Guys like Jason Taylor, KGB, Ogunleye, etc were pretty successful. All these DEs were around 260 lbs. I think the defense would do pretty well with a Gaines-English combo, it could be our long term version of JT-Ogunleye.

Also, I don't think guys like Peria are on our radar. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but look at how we've handled the DT situation so far this offseason. First, we resigned Ryan Sims. Then, we let Jovan Haye walk with no real pitch to keep him. I think we can agree which DT has had more success with this team, but one has about 30+ lbs on the other. That's the one we decided to keep. Also, we went after 330 lb Colin Cole pretty hard. Brace would've been good if we still had our 2nd, but #19 is way too high for my taste.

Why no WR's on this poll? Tons of good ones in our range, and there all different types. DHB, who we're having a workout with I believe, Nicks, Britt, and maybe even Maclin are all legit possibilities.

For the record, I'm neutral on Freeman. I wouldn't be terribly upset if he was the pick but I'd rather look elsewhere. If anything, let McCown and JJ have a legit shot to start next year. If they fail then go after Jevan Snead next year.
__________________

Sig by BoneKrusher
DJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 01:38 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
I agree about Brace, I was just throwing it out there.

I am not a fan of Cushing, but I do like Matthews even in a 4-3. I think he is going to be a solid pro.

I think we have to go either DE or CB (because the talent will be there unlike DT). I would draft English to start at RE since Adams has most of his success on the left anyway. Having two book ends like that would really help this defense, especially considering the DTs dont pass rush in Bates' scheme.

I dont like Tyson Jackson for us because his pass rushing is limited and both of our ends need to be monsters in pass rush. So yeah I would go with English or Ayers in the 1st, and a good man CB in the third (its a deep class so there should be someone there). Go into 2009 with Hovan and Sims starting at DT (I know it sucks but what else can we do?) and try to improve the DT position next year :(
With Jackson we have a player who can play LE on 1st and 2nd down and move inside on 3rd down. White will take his spot on the field and we will draft another situational pass rusher for depth. That will make it easier for us to stick with the plan of using bigger, run-stopping DTs because 1 (Sims) can come off the field on passing downs. If teams try to pass on 1st or 2nd downs, at least we know we have 3 powerful DL that can push the pocket and Adams can get pressure with an edge rush.

IMO Jackson gives us more value and versatility from a pass rush perspective and fits better with what we need on our DLine. With English and Adams at DE, teams like Carolina will destroy us on the ground even more. Buc fans are so alarmed because of our pass rush statistics from last year, but let's not forget that our run D is what cost us the playoffs late in the season. Jackson addresses both.

Also, I don't see Hovan and Sims at DT being a problem as long as we have interior pass rushers for the right situation (Jackson, Wilkerson, Peterson). Done deal.

Good point on CBs DJC. I think we're gonna sign a veteran before the draft. We need to.

There are no WRs on the poll for the same reason you think we won't draft a CB. Staff seems fine with Clayton, Bryant and Winslow and won't spend another top resource on a pass target.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 12:39 AM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If you take a DE in the 1st, hes got to be able to do one thing very well and that is pass rush. English can do that, Jackson is meh at it (which is why he is viewed more as a 34 de, I just dont see him as a 1st rd 43 de). Run stuffing LE's can be found later on in the draft, if you use your first rd pick on one, he better get to the qb.

Keep in mind Adams is good against the run and its not like English is just going to get bowled over. The Carolina game had inflated rushing statisitcs because in the 4th qtr, Barber and Brooks (and others) just couldnt get it together.

Just a quick question, if Oher is there at 19 do you take him over anyone? A lot of mocks have him dropping into the 20s now.
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 01:28 AM    (permalink
Caddy
Team Leader
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aussie-Land
Posts: 19,980
Reputation: 2058751
Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
If you take a DE in the 1st, hes got to be able to do one thing very well and that is pass rush. English can do that, Jackson is meh at it (which is why he is viewed more as a 34 de, I just dont see him as a 1st rd 43 de). Run stuffing LE's can be found later on in the draft, if you use your first rd pick on one, he better get to the qb.

Keep in mind Adams is good against the run and its not like English is just going to get bowled over. The Carolina game had inflated rushing statisitcs because in the 4th qtr, Barber and Brooks (and others) just couldnt get it together.

Just a quick question, if Oher is there at 19 do you take him over anyone? A lot of mocks have him dropping into the 20s now.
We have way bigger needs that offensive tackle with our first pick. You definitely pass on him if he is available.
__________________

Caddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 09:56 AM    (permalink
TRJ997
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 273
Reputation: 153
TRJ997 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
Just a quick question, if Oher is there at 19 do you take him over anyone? A lot of mocks have him dropping into the 20s now.
We obviously have bigger needs, so I doubt the team would do it, but a stud LT would help us win just as much as a DE, DT, CB, or WR. I believe that LT is the second most valuable position in football and the franchise rule applies the same as it does for QB's.
TRJ997 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 11:52 AM    (permalink
Captain Fear
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 118
Reputation: 59
Captain Fear hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
If you take a DE in the 1st, hes got to be able to do one thing very well and that is pass rush. English can do that, Jackson is meh at it (which is why he is viewed more as a 34 de, I just dont see him as a 1st rd 43 de). Run stuffing LE's can be found later on in the draft, if you use your first rd pick on one, he better get to the qb.
Good point. Since we've been modeling our DE desires after J. Tuck, it would be good to keep in mind that he was a 3rd round pick.
Captain Fear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 03:19 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
If you take a DE in the 1st, hes got to be able to do one thing very well and that is pass rush. English can do that, Jackson is meh at it (which is why he is viewed more as a 34 de, I just dont see him as a 1st rd 43 de). Run stuffing LE's can be found later on in the draft, if you use your first rd pick on one, he better get to the qb.

Keep in mind Adams is good against the run and its not like English is just going to get bowled over. The Carolina game had inflated rushing statisitcs because in the 4th qtr, Barber and Brooks (and others) just couldnt get it together.

Just a quick question, if Oher is there at 19 do you take him over anyone? A lot of mocks have him dropping into the 20s now.
I disagree. If you take any player in the 1st round, he has to produce value in a role that helps and suits your team.

Tyson Jackson is not just a run stuffing DE. He can push the pocket from the LE spot and outmuscle OTs using his hands. How many times have we seen DEs like him absolutely destroy Trueblood? Jackson can also help us because of his versatility. He can move inside to pass rush for us....it's not like we have anyone else. A similar player (Adam Carriker) was a top-15 pick for St. Louis. There are no rules regarding drafting defensive linemen in the 1st round.

Larry English, on the other hand, would be useless for us at LDE. In fact, I doubt he would even start over Jimmy Wilkerson or whatever body we bring in for depth. He's mediocre against the run and wouldn't help as a pass rusher on 1st and 2nd down situations. His only redeeming quality as a pass rusher is his ability to "run the arc" around the outside. That's also how Adams gets to the QB, but you can't have 2 players trying an edge rush on a down-and-distance where a team might run. English would be lined up over the tackle and he would have to beat him with a bullrush or a hands move, which is not his forte. Jackson would be a better pass rusher in those situations.

IMO you don't spend a top-20 pick on a situational pass rusher, especially not when said team already has 2 pass rushers and a big hole at LDE. English does not provide our defense with anything more than an extra edge rush on clear passing downs. This is NOT proper value.

Adams is good against the run because he's good in pursuit and can set the edge. English would be forced to go head-to-head with the RT and at 255 lbs. I doubt he will go anywhere but where the OT wants him to go. Jackson can hold a gap extremely well and allow our smaller LBs room to fill and make plays. English would do fine in Adams' spot at RE, but who would play on the left? No one.

We absolutely cannot take an OT in the 1st round. We just don't have that luxury, even though Oher could be a huge upgrade over Trueblood, and maybe even kick Penn over to RT.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 06:01 PM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm saying move Adams to LE (where he plays a lot anyway) and put English at RE. I believe both DE's running the arc and getting an outside pass rush is exactly how Bates' defense is supposed to work. The only question is can Adams hold up on the left against mauling RTs? That is the big question.
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 06:33 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
I'm saying move Adams to LE (where he plays a lot anyway) and put English at RE. I believe both DE's running the arc and getting an outside pass rush is exactly how Bates' defense is supposed to work. The only question is can Adams hold up on the left against mauling RTs? That is the big question.
It's difficult to have both DEs running the arc on normal downs because that means they have to line up outside the tackles and rush upfield at the snap, vacating gaps for ballcarriers. Only Indianapolis runs a defense this way but I thought we were moving farther away from the Tampa 2 roots. When Bates was at Miami he had Jason Taylor on the right and a big run specialist on the left. Tyson Jackson or Jarron Gilbert would be perfect.

Adams would be playing over the T which is not ideal. English and Adams would be a nice combo on 3rd downs but a terror the rest of the way.

For pass rushing purposes, here's our DLine:

LE: Adams
DT: Jackson/Gilbert
DT: Wilkerson/Hovan/Peterson
RE: White/draft pick/FA

and on normal downs:

LE: Jackson/Gilbert
DT: Hovan
DT: Sims
RE: Adams

Seems pretty imposing to me. Replace Jackson/Gilbert with English/Maybin and we get 1 less legit run stopper and 1 less legit pass rusher.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:21 PM    (permalink
TRJ997
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 273
Reputation: 153
TRJ997 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

I originally voted for English, but I want to change it to Jay Cutler. We should offer our 1, 3, McCown, and Alex Smith for him.
TRJ997 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:29 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRJ997 View Post
I originally voted for English, but I want to change it to Jay Cutler. We should offer our 1, 3, McCown, and Alex Smith for him.
That's way too much. We can't give up more than one draft pick.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:45 PM    (permalink
Chucky
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,816
Reputation: 206172
Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by etk View Post
That's way too much. We can't give up more than one draft pick.
If we were to get Cutler then McCown would not be worth much to us. With Winslow and Stevens, Smith is expendeble. And you really wouldnt give up a 1st and third for a franchise QB?
Chucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:51 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky View Post
If we were to get Cutler then McCown would not be worth much to us. With Winslow and Stevens, Smith is expendeble. And you really wouldnt give up a 1st and third for a franchise QB?
I'd give up McCown and Smith in a heartbeat. I'd also give up another player, but not the 3rd rounder. We have too many needs not to have a draft pick until the 4th round. That's insanity.

Cutler is good, but not he's gonna help our DL, LBs or DBs to stop anyone.

BTW Welcome back...seems like you've been gone for a while.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:53 PM    (permalink
Chucky
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,816
Reputation: 206172
Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by etk View Post
I'd give up McCown and Smith in a heartbeat. I'd also give up another player, but not the 3rd rounder. We have too many needs not to have a draft pick until the 4th round. That's insanity.

Cutler is good, but not he's gonna help our DL, LBs or DBs to stop anyone.

BTW Welcome back...seems like you've been gone for a while.
While we obviously have tons of other needs on defence. Cutler pretty much completes our offence(except #2 WR and RT depending on your opinion about Clayton and Trueblood) and will give us a very good one at that. If we were to make the trade for Cutler we would obviously have to make some more moves in FA such as signing Crowell and others. But I dont think a third rounder is what should keep us from gettign Cutler. ( not that i think it will happen anyways).

EDIT: Been very busy with school and rugby but now that I am into all my universities i should be posting more.
Chucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:57 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky View Post
While we obviously have tons of other needs on defence. Cutler pretty much completes our offence(except #2 WR and RT depending on your opinion about Clayton and Trueblood) and will give us a very good one at that. If we were to make the trade for Cutler we would obviously have to make some more moves in FA such as signing Crowell and others. But I dont think a third rounder is what should keep us from gettign Cutler. ( not that i think it will happen anyways).

EDIT: Been very busy with school and rugby but now that I am into all my universities i should be posting more.
Signing Crowell would be a start, but we would still need a CB, LDE, backup RDE and possibly a DT.

I'm not worried about WR if we get Cutler, but I really wanna see us use this draft well. I don't think Denver will get a better offer than Pick 19, McCown and Smith (or another expendable player from us).

What schools did you apply to?
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.