The Official Kansas City Chiefs General Discussion Thread

[nepg]

They're most likely not going to go with a big name. Wouldn't be surprised if they don't name an OC and just go with Siriani or one of the other assistants as the playcaller and Haley supporting that.

Haley was a pretty damn good playcaller towards the end of 2009, and that offense was dreadfully devoid of talent. The talent level is only a bit better - mainly helped by the OL being good. Still lack receivers.

[King Carls 5 Year Plan]

by saying "a big name" i was implying an OC that could call his own plays. at this point, there is about zero % chance that Haley isn't calling the offensive plays next season. it seems to be a fad for offensive minded coaches to call their own plays. Sean Payton won a SB last year and McCarthy is in the SB this year. there is no doubt that Chiefs offense will be much more talented in 2011 than they were in 2009. i think i'm of the opinion that the HC has alot of other things on his plate during the game that calling plays could get in the way of. maybe he's doing what Whisenhunt did in AZ. if i recall, Whis called the plays during Haley's 1st season as OC and then gave him the reigns in year 2. i'm not opposed to something like that. deep down i don't think that will happen. Haley is to controlling about the O to let anyone else have to much control. i do think Haley is a good play caller. i just don't want him sitting on the bench talking to Cassel while the D is out on the field and not paying attention to the game. i specifically remember that happening in almost every game he called in '09

[Hermstheman83]

I think he could take on the playcalling responsibilities. I mean, look at what he did in arizona without a running game? I think Haley's biggest asset is his ability to call the plays.

I don't think you should give that to another guy. You could have an OC that takes care of the other stuff. I just think you shouldn't take a guy's biggest talents out of the equation.

[nepg]

I like Haley as the playcaller. The coaching staff on this team is vastly superior to the '09 staff, and a lot of the atmosphere changes that took up a lot of Haley's focus are taken care of by the lockerroom they've created.

[King Carls 5 Year Plan]

Originally Posted by Hermstheman83

I mean, look at what he did in arizona without a running game?

i'm not completely discounting your point, but he did have a future HoFer at QB and one of the best WR combos in the NFL history, IMO.

Haley is a very good if not great play caller. i know that, but as HC you have different duties. every HC has their hands in a little bit of everything. one the their biggest jobs is selecting the right coaches/assistants around them to make the team become the most productive. like i said before, i'm ok with Haley calling plays. i just hope this isn't representative of his inability to find the right guy or all others inability to work with him. you know what i'm saying. it's alot less to do with him as a play caller and more to do with the environment surrounding the position that he is having a hard time filling. i love Haley as a coach. i love what he demands for his players and coaches. i just wonder if he is too preoccupied with every aspect of the offense to let someone else run it. every great boss is great because they know how to properly assign work and who to assign that work to in order to get it done the best. no one likes the boss that is constantly over your shoulder critiquing your work as your doing it. it makes it hard to be productive.

[nepg]

It's always nearly impossible for great offensive coordinators to cede control when they become head coaches. Defensive coordinators don't seem to have the same problem as often. I trust Haley to have learned a lot over the last two years and be able to figure something out that works.

[Bengals78]

Would Phil Taylor be a good fit in the 1st for KC?
I know he isn't a 1st rounder yet, but I really think he could end up there.

Something like:
1. Phil Taylor
2. Leonard Hankerson
3. Brooks Reed

[nepg]

Completely depends on how he interviews. They likely don't see NT as a big enough need to take any chances in the first round. Ron Edwards has been solid and is relatively young for the position. He's a guy you'd like an upgrade for, but you're not completely upset if he's your guy going into the season. One of the 5-techs would be more likely.

[chief_fan88]

To me that would be an AMAZING draft, the only real need you didn't hit but can still find production later in the draft is C. I think the first pick is gonna be used on d-line or a center, the whole RT thing is blown way out of proportion to me, I think it is possible they draft a tackle, but I don't think it will be early because they feel comfortable with Barry Richardson or O'Challahan at the moment.

[T-RICH49]

Muir named OC....How i hate this move let me count the ways

[vidae]

It could have been worse.

[T-RICH49]

Originally Posted by vidae

It could have been worse.

really?how?

[nepg]

Originally Posted by T-RICH49

Muir named OC....How i hate this move let me count the ways

I like it. The guy has the experience and trust of Haley to take care of all of the offensive coordinating duties while Haley calls the plays. It's a good move. The only thing I don't like about it is that Muir is an amazing OL coach, so they might lose something there.

[Bengals78]

Originally Posted by T-RICH49

really?how?

Bob Bratkowski is available.

[King Carls 5 Year Plan]

Originally Posted by Bengals78

Bob Bratkowski is available.

he said "it could be worse" not "worst possible outcome"

this hire is exactly inline with what i thought would happen. it's fine. Muir will be more than capable of being a faux OC. he will be very good for the team because they are already familiar with him and what he demands as a coach. it's gotta be even money in Vegas right now for Haley calling the plays.

[nepg]

Muir was the OC in Tampa Bay under John Gruden. He's an organizer and gameplanner, not a playcaller. Should be a great fit.

[bored of education]

I like the move a lot.

[TACKLE]

Pure speculation here, but with Muir being an O-Line coach, I think you guys might see more carries for JC and TJ.

[Hermstheman83]

Originally Posted by T-RICH49

Muir named OC....How i hate this move let me count the ways

I think it's the best of both worlds. I assume Haley will call the plays. Muir is one of the best Offensive line coaches available. As well as his devote faith to our run game. He can be the gameplanner and have "a hand" in the play-calling.

Not a bad choice in my opinion.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Pure speculation here, but with Muir being an O-Line coach, I think you guys might see more carries for JC and TJ.

With Haley calling the plays, this will likely be the case.

[BPhilb]

I hate the move. Haley needs to be the head coach and mess around with play calling. King Carl points out well above but his primary responsibility is many more things than calling plays. We will see how it plays out but right now we just lost an OC and shifted around other job duties. It's like a company downsizing for no real reason but to squeeze a couple extra dollars. This time though I think it's just to feed ego's.

[nepg]

It's not to feed egos. It was definitely a move that kept the best interest of the team at heart. Bringing in someone from the outside would have meant an entire off-season of that new OC integrating his system with what the Chiefs already do and learning how to use the players (it took Weis until the second half of the season to figure out how to use the weapons they have in short yardage situations). It's best to develop your coaching staff and promote from within while supplementing by bringing in veteran special assistants and position coaches in from the outside.

Continuity with the coaching staff and the linemen is the key to long-term success.

[Hermstheman83]

Originally Posted by BPhilb

I hate the move. Haley needs to be the head coach and mess around with play calling. King Carl points out well above but his primary responsibility is many more things than calling plays. We will see how it plays out but right now we just lost an OC and shifted around other job duties. It's like a company downsizing for no real reason but to squeeze a couple extra dollars. This time though I think it's just to feed ego's.

Ego's? A lot of head coaches call plays. Andy Reid being just one example. Like Nepg said, it's good from a continuity stand point. It's also good from a standpoint where we allow haley to showcase his true talents as a playcaller. I find it hard to understand the logic of not allowing a guy to utilize his talent(which got him to be a head coach in the first place) and really produce an effective and dangerous offense. Can you imagine if we got a legit number 2 wide out along with Bowe, Big Moe, DMC and Charles? I'm not quite sure how you can defend against something that balanced.

[BPhilb]

Originally Posted by Hermstheman83

Ego's? A lot of head coaches call plays. Andy Reid being just one example. Like Nepg said, it's good from a continuity stand point. It's also good from a standpoint where we allow haley to showcase his true talents as a playcaller. I find it hard to understand the logic of not allowing a guy to utilize his talent(which got him to be a head coach in the first place) and really produce an effective and dangerous offense. Can you imagine if we got a legit number 2 wide out along with Bowe, Big Moe, DMC and Charles? I'm not quite sure how you can defend against something that balanced.

Have you ever seen Andy Reid manage a game? It's a nightmare. I just think it's a ton of responsibility to manage a game and call plays. Maybe Haley can do it, but I'm skeptical. It's year 3 and we our on our 3rd O-coordinator. I don't think it's out of place to question that Haley's ego may be part of that. I really hope it works out, but from here I just don't like the move.

[King Carls 5 Year Plan]

look at most of the HCs that have been successful calling their own plays and standing right beside them is an elite QB. Cassel played much better than i would have guessed in '10, but i'm not ready to put him in the upper echelon of QBs, yet. also, lets get something strait about Haley before we anoint him as best OC ever. lets look back at his AZ days. he came onto the staff as OC in 2007 and didn't call plays, Whis did. only late in the season did Whis give Haley enough leash to call SOME plays. 2008, Haley had a fantastic year calling plays. He was a true OC in every sense of the word. They finished in the top 5 of multiple offensive categories and even broke a few club records. he had a future HoFer at QB and 2 of the best WRs in the league. now, in '09 he was HC of KC and then fired Chan Gailey (i'm not upset by that at all. i understand the reasoning completely. it just would have made more sense to do that before training camp.) and took over play calling duties himself. '09 wasn't a season to remember for an offensive minded coach. the Chiefs finished 25th in total offense, 23rd in total points and 25th in passing yards. i won't blame Haley for the poor '09 season. as many have mentioned, the talent on that team was not there, but if you give him most of the credit for being good when he has very talented players, then doesn't he deserve part of the blame for not making more with what he had? everyone is just willing to say that he is this great signal caller, but he hasn't proven that to be true. he has called plays for only 2 years. one of those years was a fantastic season with a Hall of Fame QB. The other was a very poor season. this is really hard for me to write, because i'm a huge Haley supporter. he will be the coach to take us back to the Promise Land. I just really wish he would allow someone else to implement their offense in KC. Weis was the perfect guy, but Haley's work environment doesn't ooze success unless Haley is the one pulling the trigger. He doesn't know how to just let go and let the OC do his frickin job. 1 year at AZ hardly makes him an expert on how the offense is supposed to run.

i actually believe that Haley will be ok as our OC. this team does have talent on it and not having to learn a new system will help most of the players. i also believe that if he isn't successful, then his job is definitely on the hotseat. it's almost like Pioli has given Haley enough rope to see if he'll hang himself with it or make a tire swing out of it. I know I might be in the minority here on this site, but i think most KC fans would admit that they wanted a true OC and keep Haley as HC as he has done a really good job in the one chance he was given with a good OC.