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Old 03-20-2009, 03:26 PM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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Zach Thomas could be on there too. He actually has been playing as long as Lewis and has even more tackles, although his sack/INT numbers aren't as good.
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by etk View Post
OK. This is just absurd. Brooks at 10 and Lewis at 4? That gap has to be narrowed somehow. We've had 15-page arguments on this site over Brooks>Lewis or vice versa. You can go either way, but it's hard to justify saying one ranks well above the other. They're a package deal.

I'm also not a fan of Junior Seau. I don't think he should be on the list.
I'm not a fan of your face! :) Seriously though, I'm not convinced you actually saw him play in his prime.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm too young to have seen most of those guys. When I was little Lawrence Taylor was at the end of his career. I knew he was a feared dude, but I didn't get to see it ya know. That being said I'd give my right arm to have seen Ray Lewis in his prime play with a star on his helmet. He was beyond a beast. Notice how he's never really been on a bad defense. It's because the guy is like a coach out there. You can't be on Ray Lewis' defense and play soft.
Another way to show how important Ray is is that he had 2 seasons when he missed a lot of games 2002 and 2005 we sucked and had horrible records.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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they have him ranked 5th...
Ham isn't on the list, Lambert is though.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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i'd like to see urlacher crack that last before his career is over
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Good to see Derrick Thomas on that list.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Chuck Bednarik behind Ray Lewis? **** NFLN.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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You guys don't want to know my list, I only have maybe 2 maybe 3 old timers on that list, as far as I'm concerned very few, I mean very few players from before the 80's could play intodays NFL, but thats another discussion for another day.

I respect what they did for the game they dominanted their era, but in todays NFL, if you took those exact same players exactly as they were very few if any would succeed today. Thats all I'm saying.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioPalmer
You guys don't want to know my list, I only have maybe 2 maybe 3 old timers on that list, as far as I'm concerned very few, I mean very few players from before the 80's could play intodays NFL, but thats another discussion for another day.

I respect what they did for the game they dominanted their era, but in todays NFL, if you took those exact same players exactly as they were very few if any would succeed today. Thats all I'm saying.
I disagree!!!

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Old 03-20-2009, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
Top three looks pretty solid. Top 2 I don't think can be argued with at all.....I'd consider moving Ray above Singletary though, but that could really go either way by me.
ray has mike beat in every statistical category...he's bigger, faster and stronger....he has every bit the intangibles and then some too.

1a) ray lewis
1b) l.t.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by throwback54milkman View Post
bart scott will be there someday
he will go the way of ed hartwell, jamie sharper and ad. thomas...overrated from playing next to the great ray lewis.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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I might be the only one here to say this but i really dont see a 3-4 outside rush linebacker to be a prototypical linebacker he is more of a DE. Dont get me wrong LT was one of the best ever to play football but i see someone like a Mike Singletary more of a true linebacker then LT.
i would love to see someones argument that mike is better than ray...or even close.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Zach Thomas could be on there too. He actually has been playing as long as Lewis and has even more tackles, although his sack/INT numbers aren't as good.

no where close to the intangibles....not even close.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Keith Rivers was top in the NFL in tackles before he got hurt and he wasnt the best OLB in the game. Some people claim tackles are the most meaningless stat in football, I dont agree with that but I dont think you can say whoever is a better LB because of tackles. Because say there is one above average LB in the NFL but is getting 5 tackles but they are all stopping a 5-8 yard gain. Then a LB gets 2 tackles but they are tackles for a loss. Do you understand what I am trying to say
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Derrick Thomas should be higher...Nitchske should be on here, lewis should move down a few spots. And Jack Ham...that's about it.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MarioPalmer View Post
You guys don't want to know my list, I only have maybe 2 maybe 3 old timers on that list, as far as I'm concerned very few, I mean very few players from before the 80's could play intodays NFL, but thats another discussion for another day.

I respect what they did for the game they dominanted their era, but in todays NFL, if you took those exact same players exactly as they were very few if any would succeed today. Thats all I'm saying.
I'd wager a guy like Dick Butkus would be dominant in just about any era. But beyond that, you have to consider that if these guys were playing today, they would have all the benefits that players enjoy now, like strength and conditioning programs, dietary supplements, etc. I don't think anyone's talking about just time warping someone in and saying "go dominate." Of course they'd struggle. Some of these guys barely lifted a weight during their careers. Are we going to give them leather helmets too?
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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I'd wager a guy like Dick Butkus would be dominant in just about any era. But beyond that, you have to consider that if these guys were playing today, they would have all the benefits that players enjoy now, like strength and conditioning programs, dietary supplements, etc. I don't think anyone's talking about just time warping someone in and saying "go dominate." Of course they'd struggle. Some of these guys barely lifted a weight during their careers. Are we going to give them leather helmets too?
i agree with this...basically the average player of today is better than the average player of yesterday BUT superstars transcend...butkus would be a BEAST 3-4 ilb.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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i agree with this...basically the average player of today is better than the average player of yesterday BUT superstars transcend...butkus would be a BEAST 3-4 ilb.
Let's be honest here, it's not like Butkus was too small to play in todays game. The guy was like 6'3" 245 and could run. I'm not a Bears fan, but I love me some Butkus.
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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10.Derrick Thomas
9.Chuck Bednarik
8.Jack Ham
7.Junior Seau
6.Ray Nitschke
5.Jack Lambert
4.Mike Singletary
3.Ray Lewis
2.Dick Butkus
1.Lawrence Taylor
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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I'd wager a guy like Dick Butkus would be dominant in just about any era. But beyond that, you have to consider that if these guys were playing today, they would have all the benefits that players enjoy now, like strength and conditioning programs, dietary supplements, etc. I don't think anyone's talking about just time warping someone in and saying "go dominate." Of course they'd struggle. Some of these guys barely lifted a weight during their careers. Are we going to give them leather helmets too?
This. no matter how good a player is today, we're constantly progressing as a sport and thus you have to consider what past players lacked. Now, consider what they would gain by being in today's NFL.

A guy like Dick Butkus would have every advantage / disadvantage that today's NFL has.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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I think before its all said and done Patrick Willis will be on this list.
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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10.Derrick Thomas
9.Chuck Bednarik
8.Jack Ham
7.Junior Seau
6.Ray Nitschke
5.Jack Lambert
4.Mike Singletary
3.Ray Lewis
2.Dick Butkus
1.Lawrence Taylor
I like this list... Derrick Brooks needs to be on it though, but I can't think of anybody to take off. I think I like him over Derrick Thomas though... But it would be just barely.

Jack Ham needs to be in the top 10 though.
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Old 03-21-2009, 03:53 AM    (permalink
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I don't buy the whole game has changed that much thing. You can trace it back with players who cross over eras, guys like Ray Lewis who have been good for a decade can take you back to the previous generation, Ray now is slower than he was in his prime but is every bit as good as he was as a rookie when he crosses over with other linebackers who likewise cross over going back. It's not like the year 2000 came around and anyone who was playing before it was instantly no good and anyone who came after was better. Looking at other positions, guys like Jerry Rice managed to go through 3 eras and still be damn good even when he was noticeably slower towards the end.

The thing is that as the game/times change, players adapt, these past greats were great for a reason, they worked harder and had more natural talent than their peers, they would be the same today, they would have all the advantages, they would work their asses off, they would be reckless with their own bodies, the same way that Rice was good in the 80 and the 90s he was still relevant in the early 2000s, the game hasn't changed so much that someone who was good in the 80s wouldn't have been just as good in the 2000s if they were born 20 years later, just doesn't work that way for me.

Sure if you go far enough back you can probably find some guys who wouldn't compete, if you go back to the point where sports weren't paying enough for anyone to make a career or where it was borderline amateur or where people were excluded, you can find guys who wouldn't be able to play today, but if you are going to pluck a guy from one era, you have to factor in the differences in technology and knowledge. Imagine those greats of the 60s and 70s with the kind of information on tendencies that players have today, backing up their instincts with actual knowledge of whats going to happen at certain times.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GBahDunka View Post
I think before its all said and done Patrick Willis will be on this list.
I hope to god this is true. But it's way to early for this talk.

Although Mike Singletary has been quoted as saying that Willis is better than he was.

Patrick Willis is the one reason I wish we could switch to a 4-3. IMO he would be able to dominate more consistently in a 4-3. He is an undersized 3-4 ILb that still manages to be one of the best in the game...
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
fondoffilm
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Hmm...

Ted Hendricks? Sam Huff? Randy Gradishar?
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