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Old 04-15-2009, 08:36 PM    (permalink
Caddy
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and to rest the future of the team on LeftBitches shoulders isn't much better.
Counting on McCown is retardation
and if your still counting on a draft pick, or Griese...you must be possessed.

Its always a project coaching a young QB to lead a team dont get me wrong.
but relying on McCown is like the Bears relying on Grossman. He sucks.
If we can't count on anyone we might as well just give up.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Josh Johnson is going to get a shot at proving himself, how much he's grown in a year.... in TC. I think he beats out Brian Griese, and is the #3 QB on this team behind Luke McCown and Byron Leftwich.


Should McCown go completely belly up, and just be God-awful terrible.... then we can talk about Johnson getting some work later in the season.


But... I would like to see if McCown actually IS an NFL QB. If he can be a 3500+ yard/year..... 20-25 TD/year QB with a rating near 90 or so..... I can live with that. It's not Manning-esque HOF, but it'll do. On the flip side, if he bombs 2009, we're in a great spot to pick up Sam Bradford.
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Bradford is overrated garbage.

Hey lordquas....you mad still?
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Old 04-17-2009, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't think so.

And we're going to find out how real Bradford is this year, what with half an OL and all his WR's gone.
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Mad?Psh..

All I'm saying is McCown is awful. Call me a hater all you want, I just don't have any faith in him whatsoever.
Leftwich, I like. I'd have him start from the get go but I think Josh Johnson needs to get just as many reps as everyone else. He'll shock.

If all else fails, Go Tebow
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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Mad?Psh..

All I'm saying is McCown is awful. Call me a hater all you want, I just don't have any faith in him whatsoever.
Leftwich, I like. I'd have him start from the get go but I think Josh Johnson needs to get just as many reps as everyone else. He'll shock.

If all else fails, Go Tebow
ahahhaah GO Tebow are you serious?
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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ahahhaah GO Tebow are you serious?
Allstott 2.0, I like it!
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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If Bradford turns out to be a stud, we probably won't have a chance to get him. I don't think this team finishes with a top 5 pick, even if McCown fails.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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If Bradford turns out to be a stud, we probably won't have a chance to get him. I don't think this team finishes with a top 5 pick, even if McCown fails.

We are probably going to struggle on defense this year...... plus we have to travel to stupid London.... AND we have a killer schedule.


I won't be the least bit surprised to be picking in the top 3.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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We are probably going to struggle on defense this year...... plus we have to travel to stupid London.... AND we have a killer schedule.


I won't be the least bit surprised to be picking in the top 3.

We have a strong oline, 2 good pass catchers, 2 good RBs, and an underrated defense that will be helped in the draft. . . plus we play overrated teams like NO, ATL, and CAR twice each. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we win 7-8 games this year. We may end up with a top 3 pick, but that doesn't even guarantee us Bradford. Assuming he is the stud everyone says he is and goes in the top 3, the Bucs are under 25% to get him.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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We are probably going to struggle on defense this year...... plus we have to travel to stupid London.... AND we have a killer schedule.


I won't be the least bit surprised to be picking in the top 3.
Their is no ******* way we get a top 3 pick you negative nancy.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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We have a strong oline, 2 good pass catchers, 2 good RBs, and an underrated defense that will be helped in the draft. . . plus we play overrated teams like NO, ATL, and CAR twice each. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we win 7-8 games this year. We may end up with a top 3 pick, but that doesn't even guarantee us Bradford. Assuming he is the stud everyone says he is and goes in the top 3, the Bucs are under 25% to get him.
THIS! Glad someone else has seen the light...

Looking over our schedule I definitely see 7-8 wins as likely.

Personally I find it funny how Luke McCown as our starter=top 3 pick, meanwhile Carolina is the favorite to win the division with Jake Delhomme and 1 competent receiver. I can't wait to see the Panthers flop.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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THIS! Glad someone else has seen the light...

Looking over our schedule I definitely see 7-8 wins as likely.

Personally I find it funny how Luke McCown as our starter=top 3 pick, meanwhile Carolina is the favorite to win the division with Jake Delhomme and 1 competent receiver. I can't wait to see the Panthers flop.
Name 3 teams with a worse QB / WR combination who are not in position to significantly improve it through the draft? Add to that an inexperienced and new coaching staff, a front seven that is very concerning at this point, and no CB depth, its not unreasonable to suggest we'll be drafting in the top 3 next year. In no way is that being overly negative. But optimism is good too, Captain Fear always needs Cheerleaders to gaze at.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Name 3 teams with a worse QB / WR combination who are not in position to significantly improve it through the draft? Add to that an inexperienced and new coaching staff, a front seven that is very concerning at this point, and no CB depth, its not unreasonable to suggest we'll be drafting in the top 3 next year. In no way is that being overly negative. But optimism is good too, Captain Fear always needs Cheerleaders to gaze at.
If only it were so easy that one could decide everything on paper.

Luke McCown is a competent QB. He fits somewhere in the 20 range as far as starting QBs go in this league. Receiver shouldn't be a problem. We have 2 studs in Bryant and Winslow. Clayton is poised for a rebound. Stevens is a nice weapon, and Stovall has potential if he's healthy. Obviously we need to add some more depth through the draft, but luckily it's a strong, deep class where we can find an early contributor on the 2nd day.

Our coaching staff is not inexperienced. Jagodzinski and Logan are experienced and proven in the WCO. They develop QBs well and produce with inferior talent. They spread the ball around and use many options in the offense, which fits with our personnel. Jim Bates is not my favorite DC choice, but experience is definitely his strong suit. We've always had a strong defense. Until that changes for a stretch longer than 4 games...we should be optimistic about our defense.

Plenty of teams have had success with overhauled coaching staffs and rosters. We also happen to have a habit of alternating years in and out of the playoffs. It is not optimistic to expect 7-8 wins, however it's entirely pessimistic to even consider a bottom-3 finish as a possibility.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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let me start off by saying that Freeman was a horrible pick for the Bucs.
Another guy who needs time to develop isn't what Tampa needed..
and it pisses me off when I hear my boy Josh Johnson not getting looks as a starter.
I AM NOT A JOSH JOHNSON HOMER
I just know a good football player when I see one..
Luke McCown sucks ballz and its just a matter of time before everyone realizes that..
Leftwich should be the starter on day 1. But that should only be temporary.
I hate how rotoworld.com says its a 3 way competition for QB between Freeman, McCown, and Leftwich.. ITS NOT.
The Bucs screwed themselves over by taking another QB, because who really needs 4 guys competing to be starter?
Its going to cause drama, and I doubt the Bucs will win more than 7 games this year now because of this.
I expect to see all 4 QBs getting snaps during the regular season, because at this point, none of them are starting material.
It should be a battle in mini-camp/preseason and I think the best man should get the job.
Josh Johnson is in that race! He's the most athletic passer the Bucs got, and he proved that once he knows a system, he uses it to perfection.
Hence him throwing 1 pick his senior year...

When it comes down to it, The Bucs f*cked themselves over.
Don't sign a freeagent QB, thats exactly like the rookie you draft.
Freeman = Leftwich.
McCown should've been cut.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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if we hadnt drafted freeman i wouldve loved to see jj get a shot in training camp, but theres no way thats happening now

hopefully he'll find success elsewhere
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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So is Johnson going to be cut?
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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So is Johnson going to be cut?
I think it depends how the front office feels about him and about Byron Leftwich.

If he has progressed enough since his rookie year, it can't hurt to keep him on the roster. However, if he isn't able to handle back-up duties (I assume Freeman spends some time as non-active) then Leftwich gets the nod.

It will certainly be an interesting competition.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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So is Johnson going to be cut?
I'm sure he will get a chance to compete in training camp. He also has value on our practice squad running the scout team offense prior to weeks we play a scrambling QB. I think it comes down to a battle between McCown and JJ for 3rd string. If JJ wins, McCown is cut. If McCown wins, JJ to the PS.

If JJ does get cut, he should have a long career waiting for him Canada. His skill set is perfect for the CFL.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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If I were in charge of the Bears and it didn't look like JJ was working out for you guys, I'd send a late rounder your way for him.

Behind Cutler we currently have Caleb Hanie, Bret Basenez, and now Chase Patton. Average draft position: ........um. They weren't.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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I'm sure he will get a chance to compete in training camp. He also has value on our practice squad running the scout team offense prior to weeks we play a scrambling QB. I think it comes down to a battle between McCown and JJ for 3rd string. If JJ wins, McCown is cut. If McCown wins, JJ to the PS.

If JJ does get cut, he should have a long career waiting for him Canada. His skill set is perfect for the CFL.
I'm surprised by this because I think there is almost a 0% chance McCown gets cut.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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I'm surprised by this because I think there is almost a 0% chance McCown gets cut.
Yeah. I'm thinking it comes down to Johnson vs Leftwich if we only plan on taking 3 QBs into the regular season. McCown has potential trade value if he plays well this year. Leftwich didn't receive any siging bonus, so he could be released with no recourse to the team.

The only problem with this scenario is that we would have absolutely no verteran experience at the postion with a depth chart of Josh Freeman, Luke McCown, and Josh Johnson.
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm surprised by this because I think there is almost a 0% chance McCown gets cut.
A mediocre QB, who does not fit our scheme, with coaches who have no loyalty to him would suggest there is a chance he gets cut. That said, nobody knows exactly what our scheme is yet, so I am just basing that on my understanding of what I have heard. But, as it has been pointed out to me, my observation and comprehension skills are extremely lacking. So take my opinion for what its worth, that is, an opinion on a message board.

If signing Leftwich was just a smokescreen to make people believe we weren't interested in Freeman, then that could make him the likely cut. However, my buddy is a huge Steelers fan, and he was telling me that Leftwich was somehow very popular with the fans and performed well in limited action and in practice. Maybe he's more than the pile of garbage we're expecting. If we are running a run heavy/vertical passing offense, Leftwich should fit in well and have an excellent chance of winning a spot. Given the Freeman / Rothlisberger comparisons, and the Steelers recent success, modeling our offense after there's wouldn't be such a bad idea. May as well bring in a guy with experience in that system.

I think our QB depth chart after training camp will be as follows:

1st - Freeman - I don't want them to put him in before he's ready, but our offense won't rely to heavily on his arm. His ability to handle the snap and hand it off will be most important. Hopefully he can follow the model set by Ryan and Flacco last year (slowly open up the passing game as the season progresses).

2nd - Leftwich - A similar style to Freeman would allow the offense to run the same regardless of who is playing. May start in the first few weeks depending on Freeman's readiness.

3rd - McCown - Can be effective off the bench and helps provide valuable depth.

PS - Josh Johnson - Run the scout team offense. Allows more time to develop. Hopefully no one plucks him.

If JJ shows a lot of promise it training camp, I believe McCown becomes expendable. Even if McCown's the better QB, that 3rd spot would be better served on JJ. Hopefully we could trade McCown for a 5th/6th rounder. However, in that scenario, teams may just wait for him to get cut.

Oh, did I forget Griese?....

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Old 04-29-2009, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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A mediocre QB, who does not fit our scheme, with coaches who have no loyalty to him would suggest there is a chance he gets cut. That said, nobody knows exactly what our scheme is yet, so I am just basing that on my understanding of what I have heard. But, as it has been pointed out to me, my observation and comprehension skills are extremely lacking. So take my opinion for what its worth, that is, an opinion on a message board.

If signing Leftwich was just a smokescreen to make people believe we weren't interested in Freeman, then that could make him the likely cut. However, my buddy is a huge Steelers fan, and he was telling me that Leftwich was somehow very popular with the fans and performed well in limited action and in practice. Maybe he's more than the pile of garbage we're expecting. If we are running a run heavy/vertical passing offense, Leftwich should fit in well and have an excellent chance of winning a spot. Given the Freeman / Rothlisberger comparisons, and the Steelers recent success, modeling our offense after there's wouldn't be such a bad idea. May as well bring in a guy with experience in that system.

I think our QB depth chart after training camp will be as follows:

1st - Freeman - I don't want them to put him in before he's ready, but our offense won't rely to heavily on his arm. His ability to handle the snap and hand it off will be most important. Hopefully he can follow the model set by Ryan and Flacco last year (slowly open up the passing game as the season progresses).

2nd - Leftwich - A similar style to Freeman would allow the offense to run the same regardless of who is playing. May start in the first few weeks depending on Freeman's readiness.

3rd - McCown - Can be effective off the bench and helps provide valuable depth.

PS - Josh Johnson - Run the scout team offense. Allows more time to develop. Hopefully no one plucks him.

If JJ shows a lot of promise it training camp, I believe McCown becomes expendable. Even if McCown's the better QB, that 3rd spot would be better served on JJ. Hopefully we could trade McCown for a 5th/6th rounder. However, in that scenario, teams may just wait for him to get cut.

Oh, did I forget Griese?....
I stopped reading after you contradicted yourself in the first two sentences.

Well that isn't entirely true but you get the point. The reason I think McCown has a higher chance of staying around is due to his contract, which he was given by the current regime. Leftwich is a decent spot starter, no one is arguing that, I just think that there is a lot more invested in McCown which leads me too believe he is easily the favourite to make the roster after Josh Freeman and most likely start.

The final spot comes down to a battle between Johnson and Leftwich for me. To be honest, considering we have drafted our QB of the future, I don't think Johnson has a lot of value to this team. Leftwich would be a safer option and at least gives us something to fall back on if something disastrous happens to the team.

I also think you are underestimating McCown. He hasn't got a cannon for an arm, but it is strong enough to make mid-long distance throws with decent accuracy. Add in the fact that he is a much better athlete than Leftwich and doesn't take eighteen seconds to throw the ball and I think you have at the very least, a great second-stringer.
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Last edited by Caddy : 04-29-2009 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caddy View Post
I stopped reading after you contradicted yourself in the first two sentences.

Well that isn't entirely true but you get the point. The reason I think McCown has a higher chance of staying around is due to his contract, which he was given by the current regime. Leftwich is a decent spot starter, no one is arguing that, I just think that there is a lot more invested in McCown which leads me too believe he is easily the favourite to make the roster after Josh Freeman and most likely start.

The final spot comes down to a battle between Johnson and Leftwich for me. To be honest, considering we have drafted our QB of the future, I don't think Johnson has a lot of value to this team. Leftwich would be a safer option and at least gives us something to fall back on if something disastrous happens to the team.

I also think you are underestimating McCown. He hasn't got a cannon for an arm, but it is strong enough to make mid-long distance throws with decent accuracy. Add in the fact that he is a much better athlete than Leftwich and doesn't take eighteen seconds to throw the ball and I think you have at the very least, a great second-stringer.
I wasn't trying to contradict myself so much as qualify my opinion. I'm not an expert with insider information (I imagine none of us are). If new information presents itself, my opinion could easily change.

Clearly we can agree to disagree on McCown. But that's cool, it would be pretty boring on here if we all felt the same way. So long as we can rub it in each others face when one is proven right or wrong.
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