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Old 03-27-2009, 02:25 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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A thoroughly subjective topic. But I'll play along - Mayo, Mankins, Gostkowski and Hobbs (great return man & decent CB)

How many other teams can you say have drafted xxxx number of great players over the last 4 years? Since when is 4 years enough to guage a player's "greatness"?

Also, NE has a track record of slowly working guys into the rotation. So it can be argued that a team like the Patriots, who have excellent depth historically, require longer periods of time before we can truly assess how good a player is b/c they may not play as much as they would with another team.

And again, why are we dismissing the 2000-2004 drafts? Why don't those count?
I'm a post-structuralist, so if you really want to get on the topic I'd say that everything is subjective and we'll all just operating within a completely arbitrary discourse.

However. There are barometers you can look at to judge the value of a player (ie: Peyton Manning is great, Rex Grossman is not).

I'm throwing out the kicker. He drafted a good kicker. Cool. They also let Robbie Gould go, who is arguably a better kicker, so that would be a wash to me anyway.

Logan Mankins is a great guard, but as a 1st round pick he damn well better be. If you get drafted in the first round as a guard and aren't one of the best players at your position you're a bust. A good pick, but a great one? Meh.

Ellis Hobbs is a good player, I don't think you can call him a great player. At least not yet anyway. He's developing into a good starter, but isn't close to one of the best at his positions from what I've seen.

Mayo is probably his best pick in the last 3-4 years. Granted it was an inside linebacker with a top 10 pick, so similar to the guard it's a pick he should have hit on. That said, he did, and should be given credit for it. Probably the closest to being an elite player the Pats have drafted in quite a while, assuming he continues to develop.

I also don't think that anyone is trying to discredit Pioli's record as a drafter, or is trying to ignore his previous accomplishments (although there's no doubt that most of the players drafted on the three Superbowl teams were from drafts when Pioli had less power than he did in the latter part of his years in New England, so I don't think it's entirely arbitrary to examine his more recent work as a better reflection as to what type of GM he would be.

Again, I don't think anyone is trying to say his record is bad as a GM. I think the general argument is that it has flaws, particularly within the last few years, and to say "Scott Pioli won 3 Superbowls" is a rather limited and short-sighted argument to make about his potential merits as a full-time GM in Kansas City.
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Old 03-27-2009, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Again, I don't think anyone is trying to say his record is bad as a GM. I think the general argument is that it has flaws, particularly within the last few years, and to say "Scott Pioli won 3 Superbowls" is a rather limited and short-sighted argument to make about his potential merits as a full-time GM in Kansas City.
I agree completely. I don't think the post/thread is trying to discredit him at all.

But I still find the whole premise oddly pessimisstic. KC now has a GM who was an itegral part of the most successful franchise in a decade. What the hell else can any fanbase ask for??
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Old 03-27-2009, 02:54 PM    (permalink
Shane P. Hallam
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what have you done for me lately? maybe? I dunno. they got Wes and Randy recently. So that with Hobbs, Mankins, Mayo and Gos is pretty solid. People dont relaize that not much turnover has happened for the Pat on their roster in the past 4 years besides getting rid of old farts and Asante...so killing it draft wise is not needed per se. and thats comming from the number one hater on the board. :D
I think this is key. The guy does more than draft, he makes some incredible value trades. Welker played decent for the Dolphins, but the Pats gave up a second rounder, and many were thinking WTF. Amazing.

Amazing value on Moss, and now on Cassel. Whether you like him or not, he fits the system very well.
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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I think this is key. The guy does more than draft, he makes some incredible value trades. Welker played decent for the Dolphins, but the Pats gave up a second rounder, and many were thinking WTF. Amazing.

Amazing value on Moss, and now on Cassel. Whether you like him or not, he fits the system very well.
Very good point. And something tells me he's not done making those kinds of trades for this offseason. I have a feeling he has something up his sleeve for draft day. With holes at DE, LB, RT, no 2nd rounder, and the situations with LJ, Waters, and TG the Chiefs are by no means done making trades IMO.
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Very good point. And something tells me he's not done making those kinds of trades for this offseason. I have a feeling he has something up his sleeve for draft day. With holes at DE, LB, RT, no 2nd rounder, and the situations with LJ, Waters, and TG the Chiefs are by no means done making trades IMO.
I think the same. I think the Chiefs will be moving from the number 3 spot as well. The infatuation of Curry(false or true could help KC position them self to move or send smoke signals) and the availability of Stafford/Monroe/Smith would be a dream for KC. They could move down from 3 on the 'cheap' getting a 3rd and future 3rd or something.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 03-27-2009, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I think this argument is being simplified a little bit for the sake of arguing about the draft. Directors of scouting, college scouts and other areas of searching for draft prospects can go up and down while the GM stays the same.

More than one GM has been amazing in one city and terrible in another, or even in the one city over the space of a few years. Their reliance on scouts is a HUGE part of the process.
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Old 03-27-2009, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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I think this argument is being simplified a little bit for the sake of arguing about the draft. Directors of scouting, college scouts and other areas of searching for draft prospects can go up and down while the GM stays the same.

More than one GM has been amazing in one city and terrible in another, or even in the one city over the space of a few years. Their reliance on scouts is a HUGE part of the process.
Which is why Pioli's so good. He's been in charge of hiring scouts and choosing which ones to rely on.
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