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Old 04-03-2009, 10:46 PM    (permalink
Mr. Hero
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Why would we start with the roy trade when cleveland asked for the saints' second and fifth with steve smith, shouldn't that be the package we should start working from? Get that down to something both teams will agree on?
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ironman4579 View Post
Roy dropped a bunch of balls in Detroit over his career there as well. Basically he didn't drop a bunch in Dallas because he hardly saw the ball.

Case in Point. Plus, ROy never had a season like Edwards did 2 years ago.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
except the Giants aren't desperate under achievers who feel they HAVE to make a move and bring back a hometown guy...

the Giants have a bunch of options out there, so they won't overpay for Braylon.

plus, Braylon's been in the news, not a cancer by any means, but more public than you'd like (hence this statement...)

he's in his contract year IIRC, AND Cleveland's in full rebuild. teams around the league know that and no team will overpay a guy who'll hit the market in a year
Despite the fact the Browns' season last year was an abortion, they are not in full rebuilding mode.

All of the talent that is on the Browns is under 30 and much of it under 25:

LT Joe Thomas
LG Eric Steinbach
QB Brady Quinn (unproven or not, he is still young talent)
WR Braylon Edwards
FB Lawrence Vickers
NT Shaun Rogers
ILB D'Qwell Jackson
OLB Kamerion Wimbley (Yes, he's teetering on being a bust, but all hope is not lost... hopefully Rob Ryan can do something with him)
CB Eric Wright
CB Brandon McDonald

The Browns 10-6 season may have been an abberation, but this team has talent. If they draft well and Brady Quinn proves effective, they are a competitive football team. They may not be knocking on the Superbowl's door yet, but they would be a competitive football team.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Why would we start with the roy trade when cleveland asked for the saints' second and fifth with steve smith, shouldn't that be the package we should start working from? Get that down to something both teams will agree on?
I'll believe that when I see it. The new Browns FO has been incredibly tight lipped so far, but you hear rumor after rumor after rumor.

There has only been one trade so far from the Browns and it was the one that had no rumors; Kellen Winslow going to Tampa for a 2nd and a conditional pick next year.

Granted, I saw the Winslow trade coming, but that's because he is playing on one knee and I would not be surprised to see him out of the league in a few years. He has no cartilage and it's just bone grinding on bone.

So if a TE playing on one knee is worth a 2nd this year and a conditional pick next year, why is a WR who has put up 3,000 yards over the past 3 years and over 20 TDs and no durability concerns only worth a 2nd, a 5th, and a scrub?

It makes no sense whatsoever.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Why would we start with the roy trade when cleveland asked for the saints' second and fifth with steve smith, shouldn't that be the package we should start working from? Get that down to something both teams will agree on?
The Giants will not trade Steve Smith so the picks needed to be upped.
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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So if we agree that the contract situation etc is the same (which I think we have), we could look at the production.

Edwards first 4 seasons

228 catches, 3,558 yards, 28 TD's
Average 57 catches, 889.5 yards, 7 TD's per season


Williams first 5 seasons

281 catches, 4,082 yards, 30 TD's
Average 56.2 catches, 816.4 yards, 6 TD's per season.


Honestly, the Williams deal just seems like a pretty darn good place to start working from. So basically you'd be talking about the equivilant of a 1st, 3rd and 6th for Edwards and a 7th. So a starter, a 2 and a 5 is probably fairly realistic.
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by G-Men88 View Post
The Giants will not trade Steve Smith so the picks needed to be upped.
Which is why I said that I was feeling something like our first, third/fourth and Mario/Hixon for Braylon. The down grade from smith to mario/hixon is around moving from 45 to 29 and replacing the fifth rounder with a third/fourth.

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Originally Posted by ironman4579 View Post
So if we agree that the contract situation etc is the same (which I think we have), we could look at the production.

Edwards first 4 seasons

228 catches, 3,558 yards, 28 TD's
Average 57 catches, 889.5 yards, 7 TD's per season


Williams first 5 seasons

281 catches, 4,082 yards, 30 TD's
Average 56.2 catches, 816.4 yards, 6 TD's per season.


Honestly, the Williams deal just seems like a pretty darn good place to start working from. So basically you'd be talking about the equivilant of a 1st, 3rd and 6th for Edwards and a 7th. So a starter, a 2 and a 5 is probably fairly realistic.
I agree the situations are similar, I just think Dallas ended up overpaying in that deal because JJ was getting desperate, I mean an in season trade of that magnitude? When does that ever happen in the NFL?

My prediction really wasn't that far off from what the roy trade was anyway, our first, third/fourth and Hixon/Mario. Call them scrubs if you will but hixon's better than any receiver you have not named braylon even if is just a complimentary play maker with deep speed. If you take crabtree in a few years that'd be a good combo that played to each other's strengths. That's better than you'll get from your sixth rounder unless you're really lucky.
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Being better than Syndric Steptoe and Paul Hubbard isn't saying much. With or without Edwards, Wide Receiver is a hole. Steve Smith isn't the answer
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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Being better than Syndric Steptoe and Paul Hubbard isn't saying much. With or without Edwards, Wide Receiver is a hole. Steve Smith isn't the answer
No one's saying he is...
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Old 04-04-2009, 07:03 AM    (permalink
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Despite the fact the Browns' season last year was an abortion, they are not in full rebuilding mode.

All of the talent that is on the Browns is under 30 and much of it under 25:

LT Joe Thomas
LG Eric Steinbach
QB Brady Quinn (unproven or not, he is still young talent)
WR Braylon Edwards
FB Lawrence Vickers
NT Shaun Rogers
ILB D'Qwell Jackson
OLB Kamerion Wimbley (Yes, he's teetering on being a bust, but all hope is not lost... hopefully Rob Ryan can do something with him)
CB Eric Wright
CB Brandon McDonald

The Browns 10-6 season may have been an abberation, but this team has talent. If they draft well and Brady Quinn proves effective, they are a competitive football team. They may not be knocking on the Superbowl's door yet, but they would be a competitive football team.
hate to break it to you, but the Browns are awful and your offense right now is just pathetic, especially if you do deal Braylon.

the Browns aren't holding the cards here, as Braylon's a FA and I highly doubt he'd re-sign with you.
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Old 04-04-2009, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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hate to break it to you, but the Browns are awful and your offense right now is just pathetic, especially if you do deal Braylon.

the Browns aren't holding the cards here, as Braylon's a FA and I highly doubt he'd re-sign with you.
i agree all the browns are holding right now is an inconsistant WR that can play pro bowl caliber, but he came into the season in horrible form, very unprofessional. He is only signed for 1 season, and franchise tag is what they'll do because i dont think they have a player more valuable than Braylon to them. This means they get one year, then a massive salary for one year if they dont trade him. Trading him right now and getting crabtree and a few more picks seems like a good option because they need more talent, Braylon is just one guy.

If the Browns traded for lets say a future first and a late second (assuming that he agrees to an extention with the giants) they could do something like this.

1. Michael Crabtree WR
2a. (trade back, pick up 3rd) Donald Brown RB
2b. DJ Moore CB
2c. Larry English DE/OLB
3. Jasper Brinkley ILB
4. Jarret Dillard WR
6. Sammie Lee Hill NT

you get a #1, a good all around back, a playmaking CB, a good passrusher, an ILB who was getting first round expectations, a very underrated WR with great leaping ability a (#3 or #4 wr), and a project NT.
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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Braylon Edwards may be one guy, but right now he is the Browns WR corps. After him it's Patten and a bunch of former late round picks. What sense is there in trading Braylon now, when his value is horrendously low...if you're going to have David Patten and several rookies being your pass catchers. I wouldn't be counting on rookies to make the passing game work.

They need to keep Edwards and franchise him, otherwise it isn't going to matter who else they've got on offense. There will be no passing game at all which will result in constant 8-in-the-box for our running game and even more offensive futility.

Now, franchising Edwards is beneficial because we can either trade him for a king's ransom...or give him an extension. I can't say that he'll want to stay here, but I'm pretty sure that if he repeats 2007, he won't mind hanging around whichever QB helped him beast. I would put my money on him bouncing back big, he's insane when he's focused...and he knows his next contract is coming up.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Hell if Bray Bray wants 2 come 2 NY, id drive out there and pick him up, LOL
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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hate to break it to you, but the Browns are awful and your offense right now is just pathetic, especially if you do deal Braylon.

the Browns aren't holding the cards here, as Braylon's a FA and I highly doubt he'd re-sign with you.
which is why they have a franchise tag.
an then trade
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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which is why they have a franchise tag.
an then trade
sure, franchise a guy who doesn't wanna be there, spend a **** load of cash on him for one year, he may hold out, it's only one year, etc. the browns still wouldn't hold the cards, and his value wouldn't increase at all, in fact, it would perhaps decrease.

BUT, head beat writer Mike Garafolo said last night on tv that the Giants are VERY unlikely to pursue a vet WR and the Braylon talks are all but dead.
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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sure, franchise a guy who doesn't wanna be there, spend a **** load of cash on him for one year, he may hold out, it's only one year, etc. the browns still wouldn't hold the cards, and his value wouldn't increase at all, in fact, it would perhaps decrease.

BUT, head beat writer Mike Garafolo said last night on tv that the Giants are VERY unlikely to pursue a vet WR and the Braylon talks are all but dead.
Grrrrrrr......

A rookie WR aint gonna step in and produce like many think, this my friend is dis-heartening news
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Again, saying Braylon Edwards doesn't want to be in Cleveland is absolutely baseless.

The fact is no one knows but Edwards and he may not even be sure yet. I expect that he wants to come in and tear it up this year to get himself a big contract, whether that is in Cleveland or elsewhere.

How that would deteriorate his value is beyond me. The Browns cap is more than capable of holding a franchised Braylon Edwards. So yes, the Browns hold all the cards
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather have us trade for Gonzo if possible. It's cheaper for us when it comes to compensation and contract in place. Plus we run Double tight sets like no one's business. So Boss and Gonzo would do a heck of a job run blocking and going out on routes. Use the rest of the picks then to do whatever, with options to draft WRs in the first round or Robiskie or Rames Barden later on.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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You guys might also be able to try to get Boldin cheaper.
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Old 04-04-2009, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Which is why I said that I was feeling something like our first, third/fourth and Mario/Hixon for Braylon. The down grade from smith to mario/hixon is around moving from 45 to 29 and replacing the fifth rounder with a third/fourth.



I agree the situations are similar, I just think Dallas ended up overpaying in that deal because JJ was getting desperate, I mean an in season trade of that magnitude? When does that ever happen in the NFL?

My prediction really wasn't that far off from what the roy trade was anyway, our first, third/fourth and Hixon/Mario. Call them scrubs if you will but hixon's better than any receiver you have not named braylon even if is just a complimentary play maker with deep speed. If you take crabtree in a few years that'd be a good combo that played to each other's strengths. That's better than you'll get from your sixth rounder unless you're really lucky.
Hey, don't say "you guys" I'm a Lions fan. I just like Braylon. I agree that Dallas pretty much got jobbed on that trade. My point is that the Browns would likely use that deal as a starting point if anyone came calling about Braylon.
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Old 04-04-2009, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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would a future first and a late second do it?
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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would a future first and a late second do it?
I think you guys should do 1st this year and 2nd this year...

Think about it, what receiver are you going to get with the 29th pick that's even close to Braylon? On top of that, the 2nd round pick is extremely late as well, and the Browns MUST then draft Crabtree at 5, so essentially we have to spend our amazing draft pick extremely high due to the trade, we are going to need to pick up both picks.

If we trade him away for less we're stupid.
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Old 04-04-2009, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Think about it, what receiver are you going to get with the 29th pick that's even close to Braylon? On top of that, the 2nd round pick is extremely late as well, and the Browns MUST then draft Crabtree at 5, so essentially we have to spend our amazing draft pick extremely high due to the trade, we are going to need to pick up both picks.

If we trade him away for less we're stupid.
If you're talking about Braylon in 2007, not many.

If you're talking about Braylon in 2008, quite a few headed into the second and third round.
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Old 04-04-2009, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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If you're talking about Braylon in 2007, not many.

If you're talking about Braylon in 2008, quite a few headed into the second and third round.
Yeah, but 2008 was a down year for the entire offense it was pretty pathetic...

Braylon isn't nearly as bad as he was last year, guy just needs a coach (like coughlin sadly) that can get him to focus.
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Old 04-04-2009, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather have us trade for Gonzo if possible. It's cheaper for us when it comes to compensation and contract in place. Plus we run Double tight sets like no one's business. So Boss and Gonzo would do a heck of a job run blocking and going out on routes. Use the rest of the picks then to do whatever, with options to draft WRs in the first round or Robiskie or Rames Barden later on.
amen to that Shock. Trade for Gonzo, draft Britt and a guy like Barden or Stroughter later on, total awesomeness.

I still want Holt though...
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