Browns looking to deal Quinn and Edwards - Page 9

wonderbredd24 · 04-14-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

The Daily News calls Cleveland "eager to make a deal." The Giants have ten draft picks and the Browns are expected to command at least first- and third-rounders. Cleveland also may ask for Mathias Kiwanuka, who would play outside linebacker in Eric Mangini's 3-4. The Giants do not want to part with Kiwi, but may counter with one or two of their young receivers

Perhaps Mangini isn't as stupid as people would like to make him out to be

Brent · 04-14-2009, 03:55 PM

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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

I don't want the 30th pick and a 5th round for Braylon either. I'd rather draft Crabtree and keep Edwards to see if his attitude/play changes and there is always the option of franchise tagging him or giving him a new contract if he kicks ass.

Not to mention he could be traded before the deadline.

BaLLiN · 04-14-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Perhaps Mangini isn't as stupid as people would like to make him out to be

1st and 4th possibly a conditional (4th or 5th) in 2010 but its not going to be much more than that.

WinslowBodden · 04-14-2009, 03:59 PM

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Originally Posted by BaLLiN72

its the 29th and 129 which is not close to a 5th because of the comp picks. I dont understand why your banking on him doing better on the browns, with winslow gone that would make him the only target for opposing teams to cover, instead of keeping him, getting two picks to replace him in a small rebuild instead of holding on to hope that he actually begins to care about the browns.

I said if we draft Crabtree and keep Edwards I would be happy to keep Edwards another year. It's a contract year for him, almost all players play their ass off in a contract year.

As far as the 29th and 129th pick in the draft, that still sucks compared to what his value should be.

There is no way Edwards is worth Robo/Nicks and a 5th round pick, which is the best receiver you would most likely get with that 29th pick. Winslow was a 2nd and 5th because of his knee and the fact that he gets hurt alot.

There is no sense in Cleveland letting Braylon go for basically just a first round pick, there needs to be a third rounder or better in there to make it even worth while for us.

Oh and Ray Malaluga is not better than Aaron Curry (I believe Curry would play ILB for the Browns.)

wonderbredd24 · 04-14-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaLLiN72

1st and 4th possibly a conditional (4th or 5th) in 2010 but its not going to be much more than that.

Ok, so we'll keep him or see if the Eagles are more interested.

The misconception is that the Browns need to deal Edwards. If the Giants don't meet the Browns asking price, they can hold onto him without issue.

He's going to play his ass off for his next contract... you can count on that.

LizardState · 04-14-2009, 04:22 PM

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Originally Posted by Thumper

Eric Mangini is no longer Man genius. WTF is he doing? You're trading away your teams 3 best offensive players (ex. Joe Thomas and Steinbach). You really expect to succeed? There is the draft but really how much impact to expect a rookie to have? A very small percentage of rookies actually come in and make a significant impact. Mangini I hope for your sake you don't do this because I guarantee that you will lose your job within 2 seasons if you do.

Clayton on ESPN Live today confirmed that the Giants were interested in dealing for Braylon Edwards & both he & Quinn could be gone this month.

I agree with Thumper here, Mangini is inexplicably trading the Browns talent core away if he does this. When he coached the Jets they spent like $140M for FAs brought in, then he brought in a way over the hill Favre who threw away entire games for them, cost Mangini his job. Maybe he's going on another shopping spree this yr for the Browns if their draftees don't fill the holes he's created, & again you're right, depending on the position I can't see impact rookies turning them around on either side of the ball.

He's doing it again -- what was Einstein's definition of insanity, doing the same thing the same way over & over again & expecting different results?

BaLLiN · 04-14-2009, 04:23 PM

i almost hope now you keep him and he has a bad year, Braylon is not a pro bowl caliber WR right now, couple that with a desire not to play for the browns (he doesnt seem to care about your organization) and a case of the dropsies, yes id say mid twenties is about right.

Quote:

The Cowboys will give up a first-round pick in 2009, plus a third- and sixth-rounder that year for Williams and a seventh-round pick in '10.

thats the dallas-detroit trade

Dallas gave
#20(850) + #82(180) + #192(14.6)=1044.6

Detroit gave
#210(7.4)
Roy Williams

1044.6-7.4= 1037.2

Giants
give: #29(640) + #129(43) = 643

Braylon(643)
Roy(1037.2)

now realize that they did that during the season, and dallas was very very very more desperate. Now if you include a conditional which could add possibly 130 more value. Dallas gave up too much, and that kind of value cant be expected to be given up just because one team was that desperate DURING THE SEASON.

vikes_28 · 04-14-2009, 04:23 PM

how about brady quinn to the vikings for chester taylor and a third...

/sarcasm.

wonderbredd24 · 04-14-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaLLiN72

i almost hope now you keep him and he has a bad year, Braylon is not a pro bowl caliber WR right now, couple that with a desire not to play for the browns (he doesnt seem to care about your organization) and a case of the dropsies, yes id say mid twenties is about right.

thats the dallas-detroit trade

Dallas gave
#20(850) + #82(180) + #192(14.6)=1044.6

Detroit gave
#210(7.4)
Roy Williams

1044.6-7.4= 1037.2

Giants
give: #29(640) + #129(43) = 643

Braylon(643)
Roy(1037.2)

now realize that they did that during the season, and dallas was very very very more desperate. Now if you include a conditional which could add possibly 130 more value. Dallas gave up too much, and that kind of value cant be expected to be given up just because one team was that desperate DURING THE SEASON.

It's a contract year. If Mangini takes a dump in his cereal, Braylon is still going to bust his ass to get a big paycheck elsewhere.

And while we're at it, Braylon is a better receiver than Roy Williams and the stats support it.

BaLLiN · 04-14-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

It's a contract year. If Mangini takes a dump in his cereal, Braylon is still going to bust his ass to get a big paycheck elsewhere.

And while we're at it, Braylon is a better receiver than Roy Williams and the stats support it.

that doesnt make any fricken sense, and really? When has Williams had a better QB? you cant prove it, theyre too similar.

Is he going to bust his ass to get franchise tagged? i guarantee you if he gets tagged after having a decent season he'll request a trade.

It could get better but there is a higher potential it could get worse, but bottom line if you draft crabtree itll still wont allow him to get off double teams. Couple that with a decreasing run game and not such a great defense he wont have much opportunity, that will give way to him not taking it seriously AGAIN. then what will his trade value?

Thumper · 04-14-2009, 04:40 PM

I don't know about Braylon as an Eagle. The Eagles are happy with DeSean Jackson at #1 and I think they've shown where their priorities lie. The Eagles have flat out ignored Housh so they obviously don't regard WR as a big need. The Eagles are gunning for an OT and are looking REALLY hard at Eugene Monroe and Andre Smith. If they don't fall the Eagles will likely pull the trigger on Jason Peters. LT >>>> WR in the Eagles eyes.

wonderbredd24 · 04-14-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaLLiN72

that doesnt make any fricken sense, and really? When has Williams had a better QB? you cant prove it, theyre too similar.

Is he going to bust his ass to get franchise tagged? i guarantee you if he gets tagged after having a decent season he'll request a trade.

It could get better but there is a higher potential it could get worse, but bottom line if you draft crabtree itll still wont allow him to get off double teams. Couple that with a decreasing run game and not such a great defense he wont have much opportunity, that will give way to him not taking it seriously AGAIN. then what will his trade value?

Ok, if he wants out while tagged after having a great year, we get more for him than we would this year. Or they could get an extension done beforehand. In either scenario, the Browns end up in total control. I fail to see the downside here.

Despite having a bad defense and no running game, Edwards still managed to light up the Giants for 5 catches, 154 yards and a TD on MNF

wonderbredd24 · 04-14-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

I don't know about Braylon as an Eagle. The Eagles are happy with DeSean Jackson at #1 and I think they've shown where their priorities lie. The Eagles have flat out ignored Housh so they obviously don't regard WR as a big need. The Eagles are gunning for an OT and are looking REALLY hard at Eugene Monroe and Andre Smith. If they don't fall the Eagles will likely pull the trigger on Jason Peters. LT >>>> WR in the Eagles eyes.

Braylon is very similar to TO in terms of skill set and what he does for an offense.

When the Eagles had TO, they were in the Superbowl. With Braylon, Jackson, and Avant and Westbrook, the Eagles could make another serious run.

Thumper · 04-14-2009, 04:51 PM

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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Braylon is very similar to TO in terms of skill set and what he does for an offense.

When the Eagles had TO, they were in the Superbowl. With Braylon, Jackson, and Avant and Westbrook, the Eagles could make another serious run.

Yeah but also during those runs the Eagles arguably had the best line in the NFC. Andy follows the system of building a team from the inside out and he believes he already has his weapon in DeSean Jackson.

TO is not Braylon Edwards. Physically they have similar attributes and they both drop a lot of balls but TO works harder, runs better routes and plays with more heart. I hate TO but I will never accuse him of not working and playing hard.

I like Braylon but... The Eagles probably don't.

BaLLiN · 04-14-2009, 04:52 PM

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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Ok, if he wants out while tagged after having a great year, we get more for him than we would this year. Or they could get an extension done beforehand. In either scenario, the Browns end up in total control. I fail to see the downside here.

Despite having a bad defense and no running game, Edwards still managed to light up the Giants for 5 catches, 154 yards and a TD on MNF

when a player requests a trade and holds out, their trade value plummets, it doesnt go up. And yes he did have a really good game against aaron ross (groin injury) on single coverage. He wont be seeing that next year being the only target.

wonderbredd24 · 04-14-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaLLiN72

when a player requests a trade and holds out, their trade value plummets, it doesnt go up. And yes he did have a really good game against aaron ross (groin injury) on single coverage. He wont be seeing that next year being the only target.

Holding out? Yes. Holding out would also hurt the contract he'd be getting, which is why he would not do it. Requesting a trade? Hmmm... would not appear that way as illustrated by Jay Cutler and others.

BaLLiN · 04-14-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Holding out? Yes. Holding out would also hurt the contract he'd be getting, which is why he would not do it. Requesting a trade? Hmmm... would not appear that way as illustrated by Jay Cutler and others.

Jay Cutler is pretty much a franchise QB.

Braylon is pretty much just a struggling #1 reciever in a bad situation. If he holds out instead of signing a contract and then signs a franchise tag tenure his value is still off.

Remember what happened with DeAngelo Hall? he had a great season before he got traded, he had one little incident and asked to be traded. and what was it a 2nd? yeah

wonderbredd24 · 04-14-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaLLiN72

Jay Cutler is pretty much a franchise QB.

Braylon is pretty much just a struggling #1 reciever in a bad situation. If he holds out instead of signing a contract and then signs a franchise tag tenure his value is still off.

Remember what happened with DeAngelo Hall? he had a great season before he got traded, he had one little incident and asked to be traded. and what was it a 2nd? yeah

Braylon Edwards struggled his way to 900 yards and has averaged over 1,000 yards for the past 3 seasons with 25 TDs. His numbers stack up very well with any of the young receivers playing in the NFL.

Chad Johnson, for all of his troubles, could have netted the Bengals 2 1st round picks 2 years ago, and still might get them 1 at this point.

The Giants, Eagles, or anyone else will meet the Browns asking price on Edwards or they will keep him and either move him next year or extend. He's going to play better than he did this season and his value is going to go up. Sorry, but that's the reality of the situation. Come up with whatever idiotic scenario you want for why his value is going to go down, but short of catastrophic injury, it ain't happening.

Let's just agree on this... you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to this topic.

WinslowBodden · 04-14-2009, 05:53 PM

Ballin what you seem to be missing is that the Browns don't need to trade Edwards to the Giants or at all...

Honestly, look at our situation.

1. Edwards
2. Patten
3. Steptoe

Seriously...

You think the Browns NEED to get rid of Edwards? Do you think you would trade Edwards away with that receiving core for the 29th pick and a irrelevant later round pick? I wouldn't.

If I were the Giants I would give up a first and third possibly even a second for this guy, you are picking extremely late in each round and need a #1 receiver extremely bad. No one you are going to get at 29 will be better and considering it's not an even trade at that point you are going to have to throw in something bigger.

I guarantee Braylon nets AT LEAST a first and third in value.

Oh yeah, one more thing... If Braylon sucks so much why do you want him so bad?

BaLLiN · 04-14-2009, 06:29 PM

what you two dont get is that IMO, my opinion, not fact, my opinion; Braylon will decline if he stays with you for three reasons. Controversy and unwillingness to play for the browns and or Mangini and being doubled every play.

If you trade for more picks you gain more players, a great way to rebuild is through the draft, another thing is i highly doubt Mangini is going to want to set up a plan where he might lose his job being fired from the jets. He has one Line built, the other isnt at all, and the LBs arent great.

Trading down and bringing in players with high character and getting the team unified is what im talking about.

Sure you could wait a year, my thing is that two 4ths and a 1st is worth it from a rebuilding standpoint.

The fact that you guys expect a first and a 2nd is ridiculous, a first and a 3rd i can see, but the conditional pick could be a 3rd, so christ read what i say.

Braylon is a good player, he was a bum last year, showed up in bad shape after a dumb injury, he didnt seem to care about your team. Would Mangini honestly want to keep that?

bottom line a 1st 4th and conditional would do it.

Edit:
an eagles fan even told you that the front office wouldnt make a trade for him, which makes sense because i dont remember the last time eagles traded for a reciever, or traded up for one either.

I dont think he sucks bad, never said that, you dont read. I said he doesnt care about your organization, which is pretty apparent, he wasnt fit which explains his dropoff but also he wont have a great running game or recievers around him to take double teams off of him.

The Dynasty · 04-14-2009, 06:32 PM

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Profootballtalk.com hears that a Braylon Edwards trade to the Giants is unlikely, despite two reports to the contrary.

PFT suggests both sides are "posturing," with Cleveland leaking rumors to drive up Edwards' market, and New York holding out "until the Browns drop their asking price" and Edwards his contract demands. The Browns are said to be asking for Mathias Kiwanuka. Edwards wants to be paid $10M a year. Source: profootballtalk.com

Quote:

Sources tell Newsday's Tom Rock that no Braylon Edwards-to-Giants trade is imminent and nothing should be expected "in the next few days."
Another day, another Braylon Edwards trade rumor blows over. Rock does acknowledge that the Browns and Giants are in active talks but says New York is not the "mystery" team with a first-round pick on the table for Edwards.
Source: Newsday

I saw this on rotoworld.com thought i was worthy to post.

BaLLiN · 04-14-2009, 06:36 PM

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Originally Posted by touchdownmaker

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/gia...or-braylo.html

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...ge-not-coming/

those state the opposite lol

BrownsTown · 04-14-2009, 06:55 PM

I don't see Quinn and Edwards moving before draft day. More likely is the Browns waiting to see which of Sanchez/Crabtree will be available and trade one of them based on that.

WinslowBodden · 04-14-2009, 06:59 PM

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Originally Posted by BaLLiN72

I dont think he sucks bad, never said that, you dont read..

I can only read so much of stuff I don't agree with, and based on your comments about Braylon they are pretty negative on how he didn't play that good isn't worth very much blah blah blah.

It would be like me saying Mathias Kiwanuka isnt a good tackler doesnt have good value and really isnt that important but me wanting to trade for him.

scottyboy · 04-14-2009, 07:07 PM

good thing the Giants aren't idiots and won't give up a 1st and 3rd or Kiwi...