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Old 05-02-2009, 06:37 PM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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At this point I'm not putting to much faith in Hill and Levy until proven otherwise. If Mayhew is a good drafter and Schwartz and co can develop them thats great but I'm not counting on them becoming more than role players.
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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I don't have any problem standing by the comments I make. I think that bashing someones pre-season thoughts, while still in the pre-season, only opens up the door for yourself to look rather foolish. The NFL is chaotic and unpredictable.
The Lions sucking has been pretty predictable for the last 50 years. You're not the first person to think they are going to turn it around.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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is this TacticaLion?
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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The Lions sucking has been pretty predictable for the last 50 years. You're not the first person to think they are going to turn it around.
You could make this same comment about the Cardinals the year before last.

Things in the NFL change. Fast. Tell the Dolphins, tell the Seahawks, tell the Falcons, tell the Browns.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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is this TacticaLion?
I actually wondered that too. He's far more rational and reasoned than Tactica though, although he could be hiding it. The names are similar.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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tell the Browns.
*Scratches head*
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Old 05-03-2009, 11:15 AM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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The Lions sucking has been pretty predictable for the last 50 years. You're not the first person to think they are going to turn it around.
It's not as predictable as you think. Lions have had decent teams in that 50 years. Especially the 90s where all it took was one superstar to make us a playoff team 6 out of 10 years. Super Bowl caliber teams no, but decent to good competitive teams in Detroit. And I think thats what we're talking about here with a turn around, not winning Super Bowls obviously.

20 seasons out of 50 of .500 or above for Detroit and 29 losing seasons and the 82 strike to make 50. 29 losing seasons and 20 decent to good seasons. And seeing how Millen has led us to 8 losing seasons in a row, it wasn't all that bad before Millen. It wasn't spectacular and Pittsburgh/Dallas esque obviously but it wasn't laughing stock, predictable losses. Millen took us from decent franchise into a laughing stock. And now he's gone so we begin the rebuilding. Anyone with a brain will be able to restore us to at least a decent franchise. Mayhew could just be a normal GM and we will be fine, not even a Pioli or Polian. It will probably take some time to get out of this mess, but we've started already with another good attempt at a franchise QB and some decent free agent moves and draft picks IMO. However, 2009 will still be bad but improvement is a start. A Dolphins turn around would take a miracle, however 5 to 6 wins is a good start.

Bears on the other hand had 25 above .500 seasons, some very good especially in the late 80s(the Bears hey day if you will) that were consistently Super Bowl caliber along with the early 60s with Halas and 2 very good seasons in the 2000s with some great defense and Grossman holding you back from glory. However, late 90s and early 2000s was for the most part terrible for Chicago(Millenesque other than the 2001 anomaly). Bears made a change for Angelo and things got better.

24 losing seasons in the last 50 years for Chicago with the 1 strike year in 1982. 24 losing seasons versus 20 losing seasons between Chicago and Detroit. Chicago has been the better franchise I'm not agruing that, I'm just saying the Lions always sucking is a ridiculous argument. Especially because Millen is gone and the 60s,70s,80s and 90s have nothing to do with the future of the Lions. Good luck this year, Bears have a good team and enjoy your hopefully last free two wins against the Lions in 09(although you did lose 6 times against Millen, gotta love those close division games)
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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It's not as predictable as you think. Lions have had decent teams in that 50 years. Especially the 90s where all it took was one superstar to make us a playoff team 6 out of 10 years.
Is that why you always went for the superstar WR Matt?
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:51 PM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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Is that why you always went for the superstar WR Matt?
Everybody is going for a superstar with every firsr round draft pick. Millen just always missed on everything until he was handed Calvin by Oakland. Millen went for WR because he was stubborn and tried to force Joey to become a superstar. You can't force people to be awesome if they suck. Obviously you need solid players too around the superstar, but one superstar changes everything especially into at least a decent team with a stud QB or RB or really really studly defensive player for example Reggie White.

Heck losing Shaun Rogers took us from 7-9 to 0-16. Calvin got more beastly from 07 to 08, RB got better with Kevin Smith and actually running the ball,the rest of the Dline stayed the same maybe better with Avril better than Kalimba Edwards, Oline added Gosder, secondary actually got better with Bodden/Kelly over Bryant/Stanely Wilson but yet we don't win of game. One player can do alot.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Heck losing Shaun Rogers took us from 7-9 to 0-16.
Wait, you insinuating thta Rogers alone was the reason for losing 7 games?

Detroit sucked all around, and it was because of many more reasons than just Rogers.

Wow. I just realized how bad my grammar was there. Sniper would **** a brick.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:37 PM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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Wait, you insinuating thta Rogers alone was the reason for losing 7 games?

Detroit sucked all around, and it was because of many more reasons than just Rogers.
It was a huge huge reason. Rogers made that Dline much better allowing Redding,White and DeVries to overachieve in 2007 because the focus was on Rogers. Its pretty obvious and the key to the Tampa 2. Just look at the pressures/sacks from 2007 to 2008 with the same front 4 less Rogers plus Avril who showed flashes. Its like the Packes losing Kampman or the Bears losing Tommie Harris(which you saw 2007 Bears D play poorly with an injured Harris). Double teams went to Redding in 2008 because Darby as a nose was terrible. Plus a guard would be on Lenon instantly so its up to the safeties to tackle which Dwight Smith and Pearson in for injury couldn't do. So little runs, lead to big runs, lead to huge gashes and it all started with Rogers gone freeing up a guy on Lenon. Rush D was earth shattering bad in Detroit in 2008 instead of NFL quality in 2007 on top of playing good rushing teams in 2008. Enter better tacklers/block shedders in Foote,Peterson and Delmas plus Sims/Bullocks already with a very very large nose tackle that commands a double in Grady Jackson. It's a big start if you can't get the superstar right away.

Rogers/Dline play in 2007 made the worse talent wise secondary better in 2007, and the pressure forced turnovers with a terrible secondary in 2007. Bodden and Brian Kelly are better than Fernando Bryant and Stanley Wilson/Fisher as starters. Bullocks vs rookie Alexander in 2008 vs 2007, and Kennoy Kennedy and Dwight Smith are both terrible at safety in 2007 and 2008. Rogers aided Lenon and Sims as well to be decent and good players respectively. All the LBs take a step back without Rogers. So we add better LBs so the step back isn't from decent players with help into to a bad player with no help like with Lenon and Nece/Lewis and we add a better nose with size to limit the step back of the good LBs.

On defense, losing Rogers was the reason we stunk and we lost many many games because of defense mainly rush defense in our 7 blowout losses. Plus the coaching staff was stubborn and refused to blitz even when our front 4 couldn't do anything. One superstar in the right spot can make crappy players better. You need solid players with the superstar to be a really good defense and I think thats what Detroit did this offseason is adding many solid players while we still lack the superstar unless Peterson/Sims turn into one but its obviously better to have one on the Dline. Thus we'll be better but still struggle.

There are other reasons too for 0-16 on the offensive side of the ball but defense was all Rogers. Martz gone rendering Furrey/McDonald useless(enter Bryant Johnson,Curry and Derrick Williams,Pettigrew), Roy Williams playing terrible and then getting traded(leads to Pettigrew and Derrick Williams), putting the only experienced QB that knew the playbook on IR Week 4 to see what a very inexperienced not overly talented Orlovsky had and Daunte not knowing the playbook and being washed up/overweight(leads to Linehan with Daunte,Daunte losing weight and Stafford being the future superstar hopefully). Oline constantly shifting in new players with injury to Raiola, poor play at guard(enter Loper) and Gosder taking over Foster which is a good thing for the long run(2nd year experienced Gosder). Plus being down by 21 early did the Oline/poor Qbs no favors(back to defensive problems).

Lions still have some holes and young players to rely on, but we have a good start with many solid players and many talented young players. We won't be bad for long at this rate and already we're way more competitive. 5-6 wins max but blowouts should be limited to 1-2 from 7. If we get that I'll be happy, no more easy wins.
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Dude, the last time Detroit was good was on home improvement.
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:41 AM    (permalink
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Dude, the last time Detroit was good was on home improvement.
haha that made me lol
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Wait, you insinuating thta Rogers alone was the reason for losing 7 games?

Detroit sucked all around, and it was because of many more reasons than just Rogers.
I think part of it has to do with their offensive line was porous like a...

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Old 05-24-2009, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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haha that made me lol
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Old 05-24-2009, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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I think part of it has to do with their offensive line was porous like a...

The porous offensive line has as much to do with QB play as OL play.

Good QB's avoid sacks. Bad QB's get sacked.
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Old 05-24-2009, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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Home Improvement ended in 1999. 2000 we went 9-7 then we got Millen and had 8 years of losing. So the ties to Home Improvement are false. False I say. It all boils down to Millen. And now Millen is gone. The rebuilding has begun.

Offensive line had some very poor guard/center play(plus injuries to Raiola/Multialo which made it worse) and the right side struggled until Gosder got better and Foster was benched. Plus poor QB play, poor TE blocking, poor RB protection, very poor 2nd/3rd/4th WR play leading to coverage sacks. Plus the Oline was put in some very bad situation because of the defense. Put any Oline down 21-0 and I bet they give up a bunch of sacks with the defense pretty much knowing its a pass. Defense was historically bad last year. Adding 5 very solid free agent defenders, plus Delmas,(Levy/Sammie Lee Hill for the future) plus the development of some young Dline(Avril/Fluellen) on top of Sims/White/Bullocks should help the D and new coaching staff means the rebuilding has begun.

Oline we have a new LG in Loper(coming from a great Oline and good coaching), a healthy Raiola,Gosder from year 1 to year 2(usually a big progression) and Backus was not the problem last year if you watched all the Lions games, on top of a good blocking tight end with Pettigrew and Kevin Smith year 2/Maurice Morris(over Rudi Johnson) as better blocking 3rd down RBs. That sponge Oline in a better situation might not be so Squarepantsy and the Defense less historically awful.
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Old 05-24-2009, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Home Improvement ended in 1999. 2000 we went 9-7 then we got Millen and had 8 years of losing. So the ties to Home Improvement are false.
Impeccable research! haha
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Old 05-24-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitleTown088 View Post
Impeccable research! haha
I know nothing beats a google of Home Improvment. Ohhhh Ohhhh Urrghhhaa.

I also asked Wilson.
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:29 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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How does a German know who Tim the Toolman Taylor is?
It was on air in germany. Tim Allen on TOOL TIME!

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The porous offensive line has as much to do with QB play as OL play.

Good QB's avoid sacks. Bad QB's get sacked.
obviously, but a good QB with a bad OL still sucks
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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obviously, but a good QB with a bad OL still sucks

Depends how good the QB is and the offensvie scheme you run. Quicker throws leads to less sacks. Alot of things go into sacks. We had a ton of coverage sacks last year too with good initial protection. Four things play into coverage sacks. Receiver play other than Calvin was poor and Calvin is always doubled. Apparently not having Mike Martz makes Furrey/McDonald dog **** and then of course Roy playing terrible and then trading him for the future. Secondly, how well can the QB read the defense. Kitna has always been sketchy in that regard and very slow, Daunte had two playbooks on his arm and was the size of a cow and Dan O was a career backup with no experience who runs out of the back of the endzone for sacks when the tight end gets beat by Jared Allen. Third,sometimes its just great coverage called by the DC. Lastly, the score of the game dicates how the defense plays. When you're down 21-0, I think they know its going to be a pass. Also sometimes there is just more blitzers than blockers. Thats on the coaches. That happened a few times last year. Its up to the QB to check out of that play but Dan O couldn't do that well and Daunte surely couldn't do that.

For instance, we gave up 6 sacks to Jacksonville down over 20 points when we put Drew Stanton in the game. I could probably shave off 15 sacks or more when we're down by a bunch of points in obvious passing downs late in the games. People talk about garbage time passing stats, these are garbage time sacks if you will. Some sacks were on the tight ends(2 of 3 Jared Allen sacks), some sacks were on the running back missing a blitz pick up(one in Houston game with Rudi J for instance), some were on the QB holding onto the ball too long(2 Jon Abraham sacks,2 sacks against San Fran). Plus you got backups playing 3-4 games each in Damien Cook,Manny Ramirez,George Foster and Andy McCollum. Yes sometimes people get hurt, so you need depth which the Lions clearly don't have, but sometimes they don't get hurt like the Titans Oline for instance. Raiola playing with broken thumb for half the season, terrible blocking tight ends(which we've had the last 3 seasons).

I wouldn't put much of 0-16 on Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus. Backus has 100 starts for a reason. Gosder goes from rookie to year 2 when strides are usually made. Raiola had his worst year, I've seen him play much better when healthier. New Left Guard from Tennessee in Loper(Schwartz really likes him) and Peterman who I'm not too thrilled with him starting. Better blocking tight end and hopefully a better defense(at least non record breaking bad putting us down big early).
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