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Old 12-28-2008, 08:03 AM    (permalink
CJSchneider
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Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
The more i think about it, the more i think our 1st round pick (likely to be around 10ish) is going to go on defense...And Mark Roman/Dashon Goldson have been the worst FS combo in the league.
I've been thinking the same thing myself. There is plenty of 2nd round OT talent and Mays would surely be a huge improvement to the secondary.

O-line is a huge need, but given the players available and the situation we will be in, the more I look at it, I think we will be drafting defense first.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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The more i think about it, the more i think our 1st round pick (likely to be around 10ish) is going to go on defense.

Our biggest needs on offense are RT and WR. I have a hard time believing we will pay top 10 pick money to a RT. It's possible if one of the top 3 falls, but i imagine the FO will be content with Staley's play at LT as he has improved each and every game and is starting to show why we made that trade. I think we'll sign a mid-level FA (Stinchomb from the Saints, Carey from the Dolphins) or address it in the 2nd-3rd round. WR, i don't think we'll even look there unless Crabtree falls.

On defense though...we lack a NT for the 3-4. Even if we run a 4-3, our interior rush is pretty bad..QB's too often have a clean pocket to step up into. Raji makes the most sense here. We could still use an extra DE/OLB pass rusher. Okrapo/Brown make sense here, although Okrapo is probably a near lock to not make it to our pick. And Mark Roman/Dashon Goldson have been the worst FS combo in the league. Malcom Jenkins would be a smart pick. Maybe Taylor Mays as well. But i think Jenkins will easily be gone before our pick.

So yeah, at this incredibly early point in time...i think based on need and who will be available, Raji has the best shot at being our pick. But id prefer Crabtree/Jenkins if available. I've already given up hope though that Crabtree falls. I'm hoping Malcolm Jenkins is available, although i think B.J. Raji wouldn't be a bad consolation prize either.
I really disagree with WR being a first day need. Jason Hill has looked great this year and so has Morgan when he's been on the field. I dont think the injuries to Morgan are anything to worry about every rookie WR gets hurt because their bodies arent used to the amount of running they do. Not to mention that Johnson is finally coming around and he's young.
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Old 12-28-2008, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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Johnson may want too much money to stick around. I'd rather add another young WR with upside through the draft that can have a year of tutelage under Isaac Bruce next year before he retires. We'd then have a strong core of young WRs for years to come.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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WR wise, Morgan has shown that he has big play potential. All he needs is more time and experience. Hill has played well and Jonson has played better with Hill than he was with Sullivan. Personally, I re-sign Johnson and keep Bruce for another year.

Here's a WR to watch - Rams Torry Holt. He has one year left on his contract and has a huge cap number with them for 2009. I wouldnt be surprised to see STL release him in February. If that happens I would definitely try to sign him.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Here's a WR to watch - Rams Torry Holt. He has one year left on his contract and has a huge cap number with them for 2009. I wouldnt be surprised to see STL release him in February. If that happens I would definitely try to sign him.
Ummmmm.....NO!

Why would this make sense for the Niners, especially when Martz is likely gone? Holt is a great receiver, but bringing him in to pair with Bruce would only take valuable snaps away from the Niners young receivers. Holt & Bruce weren't getting it done on a championship level for the Rams the last several years, so there's no reason to bring in more pieces from the "over the hill" greatest show on turf team.

Besides, the Niners don't even play on turf!
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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I really disagree with WR being a first day need.
Let's be honest, we have several first day needs. I hate to sound like a pessimist, but I don't see Hill or Morgan as the elite WR's others do. That being said, I am in favor of giving them more PT as opposed to signing some "on their last leg" vets.
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Going into this game I thought safety might have surpassed pass rusher as our #1 need but watching Campbell escape easily even when we do get pressure has swayed me back to the pass rusher camp.
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Going into this game I thought safety might have surpassed pass rusher as our #1 need but watching Campbell escape easily even when we do get pressure has swayed me back to the pass rusher camp.
Well, Goldson was supposed to be spying Campbell on his TD run there towards the end.
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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Ok RT is our number one need. This draft is deep with OT's however so we can get one in the second, unless one of the big three fall. Our first round pick in that case should be FS.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Going into this game I thought safety might have surpassed pass rusher as our #1 need but watching Campbell escape easily even when we do get pressure has swayed me back to the pass rusher camp.
Then your looking for someone to collapse the pocket from over the Guards and center, not a pass rusher necesarily. I dont see a lot of potential player like that coming out, but we'll see.

We'll be looking at S and OLB first, a RT backup/eventual replacement for Snyder, and if Johnson leaves, probably a WR pick too. If the NT player we're looking for is there, then we could very well take one at anytime. Raji looks like a strong possibility, and I saw Scott mentioned his teamate, forget the name, is a promising prospect as well. Takeo Spikes status will have an impact on what we do, I dont think our staff is looking at Ahmad Brooks as a long term replacment, so ILB could be a pick for sure sometime on draft day.

An OLB/ DE selection would mean R. Green's roster spot right? Or at least his spot on the field. Lawson will get more PT if anything next year, and Haralson has earned his place, and I think he'll improve again too. IF we were to take an OLB with our first pick, were looking at Orakpo, Johnson, Jerry Hughes, Aaron Maybin or even Everette Brown. I see us imulating the Giants in the way that we have a go-to rush package where Lawson, Haralson, Smith, and our pick, are all on the field, maybe even all with there hand down. I think this would leave us in the right spot for sure.

Picking S with our first selection would be either Mays or Moore, both of which would be an immediate upgrade. Mays, who obviously has the bigger upside, has shown all the skills necessary, meanwhile showing everything that we dont have at the position. Outside of these two, I dont think there are any first round talents. I've seen Rashad Johnson really step up and play well for Bama this year, Saban really brought it out of him.

This draft will be about shoring up 2 or 3 postions, those being S, OLB/DE, and RT. Other than that, were grooming replacements and adding depth. Today was a good day, congratulations to Mike Singletary on being appointed head coach. This entire organization and fan base is behind him. He said this is last time our season ends in Demcember, I love the sound of that. Lets go 9ers-

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Old 12-29-2008, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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Todd McShay has us drafting Malcolm Jenkins CB in the first round... Not a bad pick!! I would love to pick him if he drops to 10.. What do you guys think? If not Malcolm, should we go for the best safety, pass rusher, or Tackle if any of those big guys drop?
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Old 12-29-2008, 05:55 AM    (permalink
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Picking S with our first selection would be either Mays or Moore, both of which would be an immediate upgrade.
I like Mays' potential and his physical skills are incredible, but I've read that he has issues in coverage. Anyone else got feedback there?

We might be looking for an instant starter this year rather than someone to let sit and learn and maybe Moore's more suited to that, even if he has less of a peak to reach. Either way as you say both of them would be a huge upgrade.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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IF we were to take an OLB with our first pick, were looking at Orakpo, Johnson, Jerry Hughes, Aaron Maybin or even Everette Brown. I see us imulating the Giants in the way that we have a go-to rush package where Lawson, Haralson, Smith, and our pick, are all on the field, maybe even all with there hand down. I think this would leave us in the right spot for sure.

Picking S with our first selection would be either Mays or Moore, both of which would be an immediate upgrade. Mays, who obviously has the bigger upside, has shown all the skills necessary, meanwhile showing everything that we dont have at the position. Outside of these two, I dont think there are any first round talents. I've seen Rashad Johnson really step up and play well for Bama this year, Saban really brought it out of him.

This draft will be about shoring up 2 or 3 postions, those being S, OLB/DE, and RT. Other than that, were grooming replacements and adding depth. Today was a good day, congratulations to Mike Singletary on being appointed head coach. This entire organization and fan base is behind him. He said this is last time our season ends in December, I love the sound of that. Lets go 9ers-
I like the idea of Everette Brown, the guy's a beast. I think if we dont go safety in round one, someone like Rashad wouldnt be a bad choice at all because you know that he's had great coaching at Bama and the Niners love to take those SEC guys. Thankfully our needs are clear cut and this draft is moderately deep at the positions of need.

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Todd McShay has us drafting Malcolm Jenkins CB in the first round... Not a bad pick!! I would love to pick him if he drops to 10.. What do you guys think? If not Malcolm, should we go for the best safety, pass rusher, or Tackle if any of those big guys drop?
I think Jenkins would be great but I dont see CB as a huge need, at the very least not one that should be addressed in the first round.

Does anyone know if we are doing the Senior Bowl again?
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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We have the 10th overall pick in the draft? If so, is Mays/Moore worth being drafted that high? If not, I would much rather draft Jenkins because a shutdown corner is worth a lot more than a safety or pass rushing DE/OLB if we dont get Suggs.

Everyone is concerned about RT but im not if Snyder is starting at RT. From left to right, Staley, Baas, Heitmann, Rachal and Snyder. What we really need is better backups in case the starters get injured.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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We have the 10th overall pick in the draft? If so, is Mays/Moore worth being drafted that high? If not, I would much rather draft Jenkins because a shutdown corner is worth a lot more than a safety or pass rushing DE/OLB if we dont get Suggs.

Everyone is concerned about RT but im not if Snyder is starting at RT. From left to right, Staley, Baas, Heitmann, Rachal and Snyder. What we really need is better backups in case the starters get injured.
We really dont need another CB at all. Even with Walt getting very old, he has been very consistent, and besides, we are very deep behind him. Brown is improving steadily, Strickland is very solid, Spencer probably comes back, and Reggie Smith needs a look. Or maybe not, the pick is a huge waste in that case. Marcus hudson is nothing to sneeze at either. Our coverage is good enough, and improving the pass rush would compliment it so emphatically that I think its the obvious choice. The rest of the league has shown this week in-week out, especially this year.

With that said, we could take him possibly on BPA, as we said we were good enough to do so. We'll see if we adopt that strategy again.

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Old 12-29-2008, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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But I dont want to end up getting this year's vernon gholston if there is one.
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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We have the 10th overall pick in the draft? If so, is Mays/Moore worth being drafted that high? If not, I would much rather draft Jenkins because a shutdown corner is worth a lot more than a safety or pass rushing DE/OLB if we dont get Suggs.

Everyone is concerned about RT but im not if Snyder is starting at RT. From left to right, Staley, Baas, Heitmann, Rachal and Snyder. What we really need is better backups in case the starters get injured.
Dan watch some game film before you comment about needs.


My ideal 49er draft would be either

Taylor Mays
Phil Loadholt

or

Michael Oher
Rashad Johnson
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Dan watch some game film before you comment about needs.


My ideal 49er draft would be either

Taylor Mays
Phil Loadholt

or

Michael Oher
Rashad Johnson

I'd be very happy with either of those scenarios.
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Am I alone in really hoping we can land a good No. 2 RB in the first three rounds? I think we all saw how the offense suffered when Gore was injured... adding another RB would provide insurance against that and also help keep Gore healthy and productive longer. I think it would be great if the Niners could look at what the Panthers have done with DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart and try and pull off something similar... dream scenario would be somehow landing Knowshon Moreno, but I'd settle for a James Davis type, also.

Another thing to consider-- I'd bet we try and address one of these major needs in FA-- wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Niners go after either a veteran RT or FS to cut down on positions we need to address in the draft.
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stl9erfan View Post
Am I alone in really hoping we can land a good No. 2 RB in the first three rounds? I think we all saw how the offense suffered when Gore was injured... adding another RB would provide insurance against that and also help keep Gore healthy and productive longer. I think it would be great if the Niners could look at what the Panthers have done with DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart and try and pull off something similar... dream scenario would be somehow landing Knowshon Moreno, but I'd settle for a James Davis type, also.

Another thing to consider-- I'd bet we try and address one of these major needs in FA-- wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Niners go after either a veteran RT or FS to cut down on positions we need to address in the draft.
I think a back up RB would be nice but I think a short yardage/power back kind of RB is what is needed.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:13 PM    (permalink
dan77733
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Originally Posted by Menardo75
Dan watch some game film before you comment about needs.


My ideal 49er draft would be either

Taylor Mays
Phil Loadholt

or

Michael Oher
Rashad Johnson
Sorry, but im not as concerned about the OL like many of you guys are. Here's a quick stat - Sullivan was sacked 32 times while Hill was sacked 23 times. I think the reason why the OL and RT in particular looks bad is because of the 5, 7 and 9 step dropbacks thanks to Martz and having no one in the backfield to protect the QB. Shorten the dropbacks and the sacks will be less because the play is meant to be quick, not long.

Snyder has done a good job at RT when he's started and like I said in my last post, I think the backups are more of a concern as is the playcalling and if there's anyone in the backfield providing help.

Looking at the 49ers roster, here's our secondary -

CB Tarell Brown
CB Nate Clements
FS Dashon Goldson
CB Walt Harris
CB Marcus Hudson
SS Keith Lewis
SS Michael Lewis
FS Mark Roman
CB Allen Rossum
CB Reggie Smith
CB Shawntae Spencer
CB Donald Strickland

That's twelve defensive backs. Harris is pretty much done and I would let him walk if he's a UFA or release him if he's not. After last night, I would definitely try to sign Chargers RB Darren Sproles if he becomes a UFA which he will unless he resigns with SD. You can then eliminate Rossum. You've upgraded your kick/punt returner while at the same time, giving Gore a damn good backup who's probably starting quality on several teams.

That leaves six cornerbacks with Clements the top corner who's 29. He'll be around for a few more years before the big money hits in the last year or two. Spencer has shown that he's good and bad at times and like I said a year ago in regards to Asante Samuel, Spencer would be a damn good nickelback because his play his limited which allows him to stay rested and hopefully, injury free. Strickland would be kept for depth and special teams purposes while Brown and Hudson could compete for a starting spot but I think that they're better suited as backups but that's just me.

Safety wise, Michael Lewis is set at SS with Keith Lewis as his backup. Goldson is better suited as a backup and for special teams play. Roman sucks and has done so after his solid 2006 season. I personally would move Smith back to FS where he should b and let him play there the entire off-season because if I can draft Jenkins, no way in hell am I going to pass on him just because it isnt considered a "need".

Last year, we drafted Balmer who barely played and quite honestly, we should should have drafted FS Kenny Phillips (who I wanted a year ago) because we wouldnt be having this discussion right now but whatever. Bottom line is that if Jenkins is there at ten, you draft his ass if no safety is with that pick because you can always move Smith back to FS where he should be.

I hate it when we draft a player at one position and move him to another. That's so damn stupid because you're expecting a player to learn a new position that he's never played before on a professional level and be good at it. Sorry but that rarely if ever happens. If Smith has cover skills which he must or he wouldnt have been moved to CB, then he'll have the cover skills to play FS. All he needs is to be put there and let him stay there for 2009 so he'll be good.

Makes no sense to pass on Jenkins who'll help your secondary by the mere fact that the CB opposite Clements wont need safety help which would then allow Lewis to play closer in the box which is his strong suit and allow the FS to roam free in coverage. If the 49ers pass on a cover corner in Jenkins for a safety who's no worth a top twenty, let alone a top ten draft pick, then, im sorry but that will be one stupid ass move in my opinion.

But we'll see what happens. Hell, im still trying to figure out Jed York saying that this is the last time our season ends in December. I'll believe it when I see it and signing Singletary to a 4 year $10m deal based on just several games is beyond stupid. I would have given him a one year deal and see what he does with a full off-season running the team and to prepare for the season. To me, it seems like the York's just wanted to spend as little money as possible on their HC.

Dont get me wrong though, I like that Singletary doesnt take any crap and will make the team just that - a team but I would have waited until after 2009 before giving him a multi year deal to make sure that it stays that way after the novelty wares off.
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Old 12-29-2008, 10:43 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
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Dan news flash our RT position still wasn't very good. Seriously watch the games before you make yourself sound stupid wait you do that anyway....... I didn't read anything else you said.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Whatever bud.
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Old 12-30-2008, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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I think that RT is a need, and a big one. I also agree that Jenkins is not someone to pass on. I think that if he falls to us some other team better package a sweet deal to get him or we are taking a franchise QB instead. The tackle class is deep, and the difference in quality will be minimal. I also think that a pass rush would improve the play of our current secondary since they wouldnt be in coverage as long might be a smart move as well
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:21 AM    (permalink
Madirishman
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The first 2-3 Rounds should be BPA in one of our positions of need (OT, FS, CB, Pass rushing OLB/DE and maybe QB, WR). It's that easy.
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