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Old 01-06-2009, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
How is he not an elite prospect? What makes Landry elite and Mays not?
Some of the things that seperate the two are Mays' size and Landry's mastery of the position. Mays hasn't really done anything spectacular to garner elite status yet.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Mays wouldn't be the best pick but he wouldn't be the worst either. As for Landry not being elite, he is a strong safety naturally. If we needed a strong safety Mays would be elite. Mays is quite a ways from Ed Reed as far as ball skills go when Reed was coming out..
thats the dumbest thing i have heard this year. MAYS IS NOT A STRONG SAFETY! his size may scream that, but hes everything you want in a FS. And honestly im starting to wonder if any of you actually watch USC's defense play.

He doesnt have ball skills? he plays centerfield better than anyone in the country. USC runs a cover 1 defense and ask Mays to play deep in coverage and take away the deep ball, which he does. He takes away the ENTIRE field. There is a reason that USC doesnt get beat deep, and that reason is Taylor Mays. His INT numbers are not special, but thats because he has to cover so much ground that all he can do is knock the ball down when he gets there. When Mays gets the chance to pick off the ball he does it.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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thats the dumbest thing i have heard this year. MAYS IS NOT A STRONG SAFETY! his size may scream that, but hes everything you want in a FS. And honestly im starting to wonder if any of you actually watch USC's defense play.

He doesnt have ball skills? he plays centerfield better than anyone in the country. USC runs a cover 1 defense and ask Mays to play deep in coverage and take away the deep ball, which he does. He takes away the ENTIRE field. There is a reason that USC doesnt get beat deep, and that reason is Taylor Mays. His INT numbers are not special, but thats because he has to cover so much ground that all he can do is knock the ball down when he gets there. When Mays gets the chance to pick off the ball he does it.
How is it dumb???

Mays is a huge hitter that can lay the wood in the secondary. He is also very good coming up and playing the run.

Also yes I watch SC's defense a ton and I actually like SC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRyOxWurQkI

This highlight film shows you a lot of what Mays is. He is stout against the run and makes huge hits in the secondary to jar the ball loose. But the last play shows you exactly his tendency of being a SS. Mays has a perfect opportunity to play the ball and either intercept it or at the very least deflect it away. But instead he resorts to laying the big hit and fortunately knocking the ball loose. Also around the :46 mark you see him have a perfect opportunity to get a take away and can't hang onto the ball.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Anyone who thinks Mays is even close to the prospect Landry was is out of their mind.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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How is it dumb???

Mays is a huge hitter that can lay the wood in the secondary. He is also very good coming up and playing the run.

Also yes I watch SC's defense a ton and I actually like SC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRyOxWurQkI

This highlight film shows you a lot of what Mays is. He is stout against the run and makes huge hits in the secondary to jar the ball loose. But the last play shows you exactly his tendency of being a SS. Mays has a perfect opportunity to play the ball and either intercept it or at the very least deflect it away. But instead he resorts to laying the big hit and fortunately knocking the ball loose. Also around the :46 mark you see him have a perfect opportunity to get a take away and can't hang onto the ball.
IDK where youre getting alot of that. With Mays' size he should actually be better against the run. Thats why Ellison played strong safety and Taylor didnt. Sure, hes gonna make his share of big hits but Taylor Mays is a centerfielder. Hes not a strong safety.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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IDK where youre getting alot of that. With Mays' size he should actually be better against the run. Thats why Ellison played strong safety and Taylor didnt. Sure, hes gonna make his share of big hits but Taylor Mays is a centerfielder. Hes not a strong safety.
I have seen Mays around the run game in most SC games I have seen. He seems pretty good against the run but again don't know the ins and outs of the SC program.

I really don't think he makes it to our pick anyways after the combine. We will see I guess, I would take Landry over Mays though.
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Woah, went a little over board with locking threads here Brent. Haha.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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simmons makes an interesting point in his most recent podcasts, talking about safety being an underratedly important position. he points to ed reed as well as how the vikings D struggled when darren sharper went down.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:54 AM    (permalink
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They're not even close. Sorry.
....How so?
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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The only advantage I see to signin Atogwe instead of drafting Mays is the fact that it pulls him from within the division.

As far as people projecting Mays as a strong safety, I believe that's exactly what makes him an elite Free. Obviously he can play centerfield, he's proven that on saturdays playing for arguably the best defensive coach in college. So we also know he's been around pro-style terminology on defense. But the stereotypical knock on Free safeties is that they are liable in run support. This kid obviously isn't! I don't see why it's so bad for a kid who gives you one more hat around the ball.

As far as ball skills are concerned, if you really paid attention to USC's defense, they really did ask him to cover sideline to sideline, and it's pretty difficult to get INT opportunities. But you have to remember, pass deflections aren't the end of the world, especially when they are accompanied by a bone jarring hit.

Baltimore Ravens
Chicago Bears
Philadelphia Eagles
Pittsburgh Steelers
Tennessee Titans
Carolina Panthers

Those are teams that usally go hand-in-hand with 'good defenses' around the NFL. They also happen to be in the top ten for pass deflections in the league. Also I thought it was interesting that Baltimore only had 4 more sacks than us. So even if Taylor Mays were to get a mere 2 INT's, and still bring all those breakups, it would be an upgrade.

I guess my point is, because he's a Free Safety with free safety tools AND strong safety tools, why does that make him less than elite?
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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Also: I'm perfectly fine with us taking a pass rusher or an offensive tackle, as i believe we need both. The thing I disagree with is doing it BECAUSE for some reason Mays is viewed as less than the value of the tenth pick. Picking the other two positions because Mays, OT, and OLB grade out the same, but you beleive the other two are higher priorities are one thing, grading him lower than the OT's or OLB's at the ten spot is another.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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It's just his tackling technique that scares me. I'm sure it can be taught but if he spent three years doing it and succeeding at it. See Taylor Mays' hit on Keola Antolin(ARIZ RB). Didn't wrap up but since Antolin is smaller than Mays and less powerful, he fell. I'm nitpicking here so obviously I wouldn't be totally against drafting Mays since it's a huge upgrade over Mark Roman.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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It's just his tackling technique that scares me. I'm sure it can be taught but if he spent three years doing it and succeeding at it. See Taylor Mays' hit on Keola Antolin(ARIZ RB). Didn't wrap up but since Antolin is smaller than Mays and less powerful, he fell. I'm nitpicking here so obviously I wouldn't be totally against drafting Mays since it's a huge upgrade over Mark Roman.
I'm with you on the tackling technique. As much as I really like Mays, I, much like you, am a little more old school and would like to see him bring the guy to the ground with good fundamentals.

However, it's only going to take one time of getting emberassed by a running back, or Singletary taking him over to the sideline, Vernon Davis style, and explaining him the right way to do it, for him to be more conscious of his technique.

With that said...Ronnie Lott wasn't much for wrapping up either. I'm definitely not saying Mays is a hall of famer, but you understand my point.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Ronnie Lott would have also cut his finger off to stay in a game. Mays' heart for the game has been questioned by some.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Woah, went a little over board with locking threads here Brent. Haha.
Haha, I noticed that we'd get three or four threads going with the same conversation and JBond suggested just locking them if no one says anything for a few days. It keeps all the conversations in one thread which is better than repeating things over and over in different threads. I was looking back and you'd have two threads about the same topic but with different titles or one thing that is different. Or a thread about someone being signed as a UDFA which is totally useless.

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Ronnie Lott would have also cut his finger off to stay in a game. Mays' heart for the game has been questioned by some.
I don't know how anyone wouldnt get pumped up to play with Singletary in their ear.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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49ers free agent list

Unrestricted

TE Billy Bajema
T Damane Duckett
DE Ronald Fields
RB Deshaun Foster
LB Rod Green
WR Bryant Johnson
QB Jamie Martin
QB J.T. O'Sullivan
R Allen Rossum
TE Sean Ryan
LB Takeo Spikes
CB Donald Strickland

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Fb Zak Keasy

Who do you guys think we should bring back?
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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49ers free agent list

Unrestricted

TE Billy Bajema
T Damane Duckett
DE Ronald Fields
RB Deshaun Foster
LB Rod Green
WR Bryant Johnson
QB Jamie Martin
QB J.T. O'Sullivan
R Allen Rossum
TE Sean Ryan
LB Takeo Spikes
CB Donald Strickland


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Who do you guys think we should bring back?
In bold.

Actually, the only guys I think are musts are Rossum, Spikes, Johnson and I guess Bajema. But I'd take the other bolded ones if we can't find anyone better.
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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In bold.

Actually, the only guys I think are musts are Rossum, Spikes, Johnson and I guess Bajema. But I'd take the other bolded ones if we can't find anyone better.
I would agree with you. I also really like what Sean Ryan brought to the table as a blocker.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Rathman's interviewed for and allegedly agreed to take on the position of RB coach. Great Hire. :D

http://49ers.com/blog49/?p=394
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...k-in-san-fran/

Bring on Frank '09.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Rathman's interviewed for and allegedly agreed to take on the position of RB coach. Great Hire. :D

http://49ers.com/blog49/?p=394
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...k-in-san-fran/

Bring on Frank '09.
Effin awesome!
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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49ers free agent list

Unrestricted

TE Billy Bajema
T Damane Duckett
DE Ronald Fields
RB Deshaun Foster
LB Rod Green
WR Bryant Johnson
QB Jamie Martin
QB J.T. O'Sullivan
R Allen Rossum
TE Sean Ryan
LB Takeo Spikes
CB Donald Strickland

Exclusive rights
Fb Zak Keasy

Who do you guys think we should bring back?
I would bring back TE Billy Bajema, DT Ronald Fields, OLB Roderick Green, WR Bryant Johnson and ILB Takeo Spikes. I would let the rest leave.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BandwagonPunditry View Post
Rathman's interviewed for and allegedly agreed to take on the position of RB coach. Great Hire. :D

http://49ers.com/blog49/?p=394
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...k-in-san-fran/

Bring on Frank '09.
Thatta boy Sing! This probably made my day
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It's called Karma for all the years with Montana and Young.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:16 AM    (permalink
WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandwagonPunditry View Post
Rathman's interviewed for and allegedly agreed to take on the position of RB coach. Great Hire. :D

http://49ers.com/blog49/?p=394
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...k-in-san-fran/

Bring on Frank '09.
Awesome! I was really hoping Rathman would come back to SF

Also:
Quote:
The Seahawks' next offensive coordinator will be Greg Knapp, according to NFL.com's Adam Schefter.
Glad we dodged that bullet.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:19 AM    (permalink
WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
49ers free agent list

Unrestricted

TE Billy Bajema
T Damane Duckett
DE Ronald Fields
RB Deshaun Foster
LB Rod Green
WR Bryant Johnson
QB Jamie Martin
QB J.T. O'Sullivan
R Allen Rossum
TE Sean Ryan
LB Takeo Spikes
CB Donald Strickland

Exclusive rights
Fb Zak Keasy

Who do you guys think we should bring back?
UFA’s
TE Billy Bajema- Re-sign (or else I am forced to change my handle)
OT Damane Ducket- Hope they give up on him. Hasn’t shown any progress
DL Ronald Fields- Would like to re-sign but he might land a nice deal on the market
RB DeShuan Foster- Re-sign but look to upgrade
LB Roderick Green- Re-sign, see if he can win spot in TC
WR Bryant Johnson- Look to upgrade but if he has no market re-sign.
QB Jamie Martin- No
QB JT O’Sulivan- No
RET Allen Rossum- Re-sign
TE Sean Ryan- Re-sign if Bajema leaves
LB Takeo Spikes- Re-sign
CB Donald Strickland- Re-sign

Exlusive Free Agent
FB Zak Keasey- Re-sign but look to sign either Norris or Weaver on the open market, to play FB, and have Keasey fight for a spot on ST.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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Little bit late on the Free safety debate, but what do you guys think of bringing in a vet free agent FS like Brian Dawkins or Darren Sharper. Sure these guys are both on the downside of their careers, but it seems that this staff seems to really value having a heady vet at the FS position to make sure everyone is in the right position. Both guys would be a huge upgrade over our current FS situation and both guys would come on the cheap (B Dawk only made $2 million base salary last year).

This solution would also enable us to buy some more time to develop our own home grown talent to move into the FS position. I am thinking guys like Reggie Smith or Goldson.

Not so much that I am against the idea of drafting a Taylor Mays, but I would much rather draft an elite RT and be set at the tackle position.
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