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Old 03-02-2011, 12:19 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
9ers now should get Jason Taylor,Any one ? Hes in FA now.I think he would be a fit for us and we wouldn't have to draft a LB.
Dan would love that, too bad the dude is like nearing 40.
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Old 03-02-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I wanted Taylor years ago when he left MIA the first time. He was awesome. Now, he's just a role player at OLB in a 3-4 and we already have two in Haralson and Brooks. LOL. No point in adding a third.

And like Brent stated, Lawson, Goldson and McDonald were tendered as if they're RFA's. It depends on the new CBA though.

Personally, they should eliminate RFA's completely and set it up at five years instead of four or six and set up the draft to where every draft pick has to be signed to a five year deal. That way, once that player's rookie contract expires, he becomes an UFA no matter what and can only be retained via the Franchise tag or re-signed.

As for players who get released or undrafted players, I would have it set up to where they become UFA's as if their contract expires. So, if you sign an UDFA to a two year deal but release him after one season, he becomes an UFA and can sign with any team. Basically, I would eliminate all this other mumbo jumbo and keep it simple and straight forward.

I would have the franchise tag return but not the transition tag. If anything, maybe even add two franchise tags. One for offense and kickers and one for defense and punters. Just a thought though.
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
I don't know if Fairley would work in a 3-4.
Well Fairley is a selfish pick for me but i mean if he fell to us and PP was gonewhy not try at 3-4 DE?
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Well Fairley is a selfish pick for me but i mean if he fell to us and PP was gonewhy not try at 3-4 DE?
Because we tried that three years ago with Balmer and how did that work out for us? I would not use our 7th overall draft pick on a 3-4 DE who's job is to engulf and contain the OL so the LB core can make plays. Not worth it in my opinion.
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Because we tried that three years ago with Balmer and how did that work out for us? I would not use our 7th overall draft pick on a 3-4 DE who's job is to engulf and contain the OL so the LB core can make plays. Not worth it in my opinion.
I don't think that's the best explanation though - Plenty are talking of JJ Watt being a top 10 pick, and Cameron Jordan will certainly be in that discussion, Marcell Dareus as well is a blue chipper and is projected as a 34 defense end.

Also, I use to think Fairly could play 34 end, and he probably can but I don't know if he's the best fit. However, he would be very similar to Justin Smith, bigger bodied guy with a high motor - he could certainly do it.

But the way this draft is shaping up we probably won't need to worry about it. I imagine our front office will have both corners (peterson,amukamara) and probably a quarterback ranked higher than Fairly.

Example: I wouldn't be stunned if it lined up as,

Peterson
Miller
Gabbert
Amukamara
Quinn
Dareus/Fairly

But with our needs being a cover guy, a pass rusher, and a quarterback - with a top tier guy at every position to almost certainly be available, I don't see us going for Fairly.
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Old 03-02-2011, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Because we tried that three years ago with Balmer and how did that work out for us? I would not use our 7th overall draft pick on a 3-4 DE who's job is to engulf and contain the OL so the LB core can make plays. Not worth it in my opinion.
It depends on the player. If you made the pick of Fairley it'd be because you envision him as a Justin Smith-type. He lead the team in sacks, he not just a space eater.
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Old 03-02-2011, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by king2am View Post
But with our needs being a cover guy, a pass rusher, and a quarterback - with a top tier guy at every position to almost certainly be available, I don't see us going for Fairly.
I agree completely. This is also why I get confused when I see 49ers fans hopi ng AJ Green drops to #7. We have too many other needs with great players available to fit them. We can't get the ball to our playmakers enough as it is.
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Old 03-02-2011, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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I agree completely. This is also why I get confused when I see 49ers fans hopi ng AJ Green drops to #7. We have too many other needs with great players available to fit them. We can't get the ball to our playmakers enough as it is.
Green is Scott's top rated prospect and the best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson. We do have many other needs but of course, if management allows to let Franklin, Lawson, Spikes and Goldson leave plus release Clements, its more on them than anyone else for letting them go. If anything, management would be creating more needs than we already have.

I have Green second after Peterson but would draft Prince before him but if both CB's are gone but Green is still available at 7, why would I pass on an elite talented prospect to draft Fairley who could become the next Balmer. I think that there's a better chance of that happening than Green becoming the next Woods.

The reason why we cant get the ball to our playmakers is simple - our OL is average at best, we have an ineffective revolving door at QB and our coaching wasnt any good.

If Harbaugh is as good offensively as everyone says, he should hopefully find us a QB and become more aggressive on offense instead of playing power ball like Singletary and Nolan did. Also, Crabtree has the skill and talent but his work ethic sucks and having another WR with the skill and talent that Green has, it could help Crabtree improve his work ethic. If not, we can trade Crabtree down the line and keep Green.

Would I draft Green if Peterson/Prince are still there at 7? NO WAY.
Would I draft Green if Peterson/Prince are gone by 7 and no other team wants to trade up with me? YES. .......Why? Because he would most likely be far more worthy and valuable as the 7th overall draft pick than anyone else would be.

What I dont understand are the 49er fans who would pass on Green just because WR isnt a major need. Makes no sense to me. After all, if management lets Franklin, Lawson, Spikes, Goldson and Clements leave, thats their fault for creating more needs which quite honestly would be stupid and only hurt our defense instead of helping it.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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Would I draft Green if Peterson/Prince are still there at 7? NO WAY.
Would I draft Green if Peterson/Prince are gone by 7 and no other team wants to trade up with me? YES. .......Why? Because he would most likely be far more worthy and valuable as the 7th overall draft pick than anyone else would be.

What I dont understand are the 49er fans who would pass on Green just because WR isnt a major need. Makes no sense to me. After all, if management lets Franklin, Lawson, Spikes, Goldson and Clements leave, thats their fault for creating more needs which quite honestly would be stupid and only hurt our defense instead of helping it.
If Green is there you could make a case for him if

a) both DBs are gone
b) Cant trade down
c) and if Quinn, Bowers, Miller as well are gone

then yeah why not draft Green but for it to work perfectly like that is slim. Honestly i dont want it to happen but if he falls to us and all good options are gone all DEs and all DBs.
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:47 AM    (permalink
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I could see this scenario highly likely:

#1 Carolina: Da'quan Bowers
#2 Denver: Marcell Dareus
#3 Buffalo: AJ Green
#4 Cincinnati: Cam Newton
#5 Cardinals: Von Miller
#6 Cleveland: Nick Fairley

This would leave both Peterson and Quinn on the board. I see this as a best case/most probable situation.
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:47 AM    (permalink
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I am still holding out hope that Peterson falls to us. It'd be a great match.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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I'm with the rest of you guys I so want PP so bad!After watching and seeing his results from the combine he would be a great fit for us.JH needs to trade and get up him lol. His little segment on NFL N this mooring he compared him self to Deon Sanders when returning kicks!
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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I could see this scenario highly likely:

#1 Carolina: Da'quan Bowers
#2 Denver: Marcell Dareus
#3 Buffalo: AJ Green
#4 Cincinnati: Cam Newton
#5 Cardinals: Von Miller
#6 Cleveland: Nick Fairley

This would leave both Peterson and Quinn on the board. I see this as a best case/most probable situation.
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I am still holding out hope that Peterson falls to us. It'd be a great match.
In both of your scenarios, my biggest fear is that money-bags Jerry Jones would throw the farm at Cleveland in order to jump us for Peterson. That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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In both of your scenarios, my biggest fear is that money-bags Jerry Jones would throw the farm at Cleveland in order to jump us for Peterson. That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
yeah it worries me so much that people are saying that about them. How badly do they need a DB?
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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If Green is there you could make a case for him if

a) both DBs are gone
b) Cant trade down
c) and if Quinn, Bowers, Miller as well are gone

then yeah why not draft Green but for it to work perfectly like that is slim. Honestly i dont want it to happen but if he falls to us and all good options are gone all DEs and all DBs.
Dont get me wrong, I want Peterson the most but he seems to be the safest an most talented player available regardless of position. I wouldnt be surprised if the Panthers draft him especially if they lose Marshall.

I agree with A and B but disagree with C. No way would I pass on Green for Quinn who hasnt played in two seasons and quite honestly, I think he'll be a flop. You can just see from the combine that he didnt do as good as people were expecting, isnt in top condition and would be rusty as hell. Not worth the 7th overall draft pick in my opinion. I would rather have Green over Miller but if Miller was the pick instead, I wouldnt complain but I do think ARZ will take him at 5 because they need an OLB for their 3-4 just like we do. As for Bowers, would he fit in as a 3-4 DE and still be able to get sacks? He's too big to play OLB and in a 3-4, a pass rushing DE is a waste because they're usually meant for a 4-3. Also, I dont think drafting a DE to engulf the OL is worth the seventh overall pick compared to a 4-3 DE who would be a pass rusher first and foremost. What's worse is that BUF and ARZ are 3-4 teams that will be looking for the same players/positions as us and thats not a good thing.

The reason why I have wanted to go back to the 4-3 is because its easier to find a pass rushing DE for the 4-3 than it is to find a pass rushing OLB in the 3-4 especially when the majority of OLB's in a 3-4 were 4-3 DE's in college. Also, with 14 teams in the league set to run the 3-4 in 2011, its even harder to get the players we need to not only fit the scheme but also make a smooth transition. Lucky for us, DEN is going back to the 4-3 and I also think CLE is too which helps us because instead of four teams who are ahead of us running the 3-4, its only two. BUF and ARZ. I think BUF goes DL while ARZ will go with Miller.

Amazingly, there's a good chance that Peterson, Prince or Green will be available at 7. I am worried that DAL will trade up with CLE to get Peterson if he falls. Us beating ARZ in week 17 really screwed us over and not in a good way.

As for DE, I doubt that he'll slip to us in round two, I was thinking about Miami's Allen Bailey? Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgrenade
I could see this scenario highly likely:

#1 Carolina: Da'quan Bowers
#2 Denver: Marcell Dareus
#3 Buffalo: AJ Green
#4 Cincinnati: Cam Newton
#5 Cardinals: Von Miller
#6 Cleveland: Nick Fairley

This would leave both Peterson and Quinn on the board. I see this as a best case/most probable situation.
I dont buy that Palmer will retire. If CIN keeps Benson, releases Chad and drafts Green, Palmer would still have weapons and none of the headaches. CAR and DEN will most likely go DE or DT but I wouldnt rule out Peterson. BUF drafting Green would be stupid because their defense is horrible, they have no QB and their OL is bad. Green and Spiller would just wasting away in BUF. I see BUF going QB or defense. ARZ is pretty much a lock for Miller unless BUF takes him. CLE is the wild card because if Peterson falls to 6, I think that DAL will try to trade up for him. Of course, getting Prince at 7 sure as hell isnt a bad second prize.

Peterson/Quinn. I vote for Peterson 100/100. I dont want Quinn. He's rusty, out of shape, had a year off due to violations or whatever and isnt worth 7th overall draft pick for us in a 3-4. CB is a far greater need than DE especially if we release Clements.

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I am still holding out hope that Peterson falls to us. It'd be a great match.
Me too. :)
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I'm with the rest of you guys I so want PP so bad!After watching and seeing his results from the combine he would be a great fit for us.JH needs to trade and get up him lol. His little segment on NFL N this mooring he compared him self to Deon Sanders when returning kicks!
Peterson returning kicks would be a plus but I wouldnt use him that way. I would never use a starter as a returner if he gets injured, you're losing your best CB and a returner. I hate it when teams do that. Its not worth the risk. We have Ginn for punt returns and im sure we can find someone else to return kickoffs. No way in hell would I put Peterson back there returning kicks. No ******* way!!!

As fo trading up, I would try to trade up with CLE but DAL would offer more since they would have to give up more and I dont want to move up especially if Prince and Peterson are there at 6 because at least one of them would fall to us at 7.

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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
In both of your scenarios, my biggest fear is that money-bags Jerry Jones would throw the farm at Cleveland in order to jump us for Peterson. That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Yeah, I have read this too. My friend wants them to trade up too but he wants Prince over Peterson because Prince is said to be a better cover guy where as Peterson is the better playmaker. I do see DAL trading up with CLE if Peterson falls to 6 and Jones wants him because im sure he knows that we would most likely draft him at 7.

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Originally Posted by txparkes49x View Post
yeah it worries me so much that people are saying that about them. How badly do they need a DB?
Badly. They need two starting safeties and a CB. Newman has declined and Jenkins is coming off a horrible season but Jenkins will only be 26 and still has two years left on his rookie deal. Like I told my friend who's a Cowboys fan, Jenkins regressed but at the same time, so did the entire team. Its not like DAL was awesome and he was the weak link. Every player on that team played bad. Besides, Jenkins is too young and talented to give up on in my opinion. Hell, I would take him for Clements in a heartbeat. If DAL was smart, they would move Newman to FS, draft Peterson or Prince to start opposite Jenkins and all they would need is a SS. Their secondary is worse than ours because they have no SS or FS.

So yeah, im worried they trade up with CLE to get Peterson. I'm just hoping that if they trade up with CLE to get Peterson (or Prince) that the other is still on the board at 7.
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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As much as I want Patrick Peterson, and that's as much as the next guy - i'm starting to try and get excited about the Amukamara pick (which would still be great) because there's no way 6 other GMs don't see Peterson as the #1 player in the draft.

We would almost certainly have to move up in order to have a shot.
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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On a side note -

Redskins signed FS O.J. Atogwe to a 5 year/$26m contract which is an average of $5.2m a year. Waiting for the contract details including guaranteed amount.

Obviously, im not a happy camper but at least he's not on the Rams anymore.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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It's OK Dan its not like we were going to get him any ways.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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All six teams ahead of us have much bigger needs then corner.

I could definitely see Peterson droping to us at #7, but i don't see how a team like Dallas or Detriot would let him drop to us.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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Obviously, im not a happy camper but at least he's not on the Rams anymore.
Why? I'm glad they didn't waste money on soon-to-be 30 year old safety.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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On a side note -

Redskins signed FS O.J. Atogwe to a 5 year/$26m contract which is an average of $5.2m a year. Waiting for the contract details including guaranteed amount.

Obviously, im not a happy camper but at least he's not on the Rams anymore.
Dan's Atogwe dreams just dissipated. Atogwe, as a former Stanford player, would probably have preferred coming back here to the Bay Area, but I understand completely his decision...... it's really really hard to ignore Dan Snyder's mega-millions.

Speaking of mega-millions...
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As for trading up, I would try to trade up with CLE but DAL would offer more since they would have to give up more and I dont want to move up especially if Prince and Peterson are there at 6 because at least one of them would fall to us at 7.

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In both of your scenarios, my biggest fear is that money-bags Jerry Jones would throw the farm at Cleveland in order to jump us for Peterson. That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Allow this Dallas fan to add 2 cents here -- the Cowboys don't have that much to give up, maybe WR Roy Williams, or former #1 pick 5-6 yrs back CB Terence Newman, who they're going to cut anyway b/c he's due lke $9M & no way Jerry pays up on that b/c he's regressed as bad or worse than Clements, hence the Dallas need at corner for Peterson = the same with the 9ers. And Dallas has OL problems just like SF, except with a much older underachieving OL, I can see them passing on a draft day trade, even though they've done more of them than any other team. Dallas is allegedly in love with USC OT Tyron Smith who had a great Combine & I can see them going for him vs. a CB, although they allegedly love Amakumara too, I'm just not buying it -- there's a big dropoff between PP & the next tier of CBs including Amaukamara, & Tyron Smith can play RT for the Cowboys right away although he was a LT at SC, Leonard Davis &/or Marc Colombo are rumored to be no better than backups or will be released soon b/c they're burned out, used up, so replacements are IMO required.

Dallas like SF needs another C/OG, so I can see some maneuvering in the 2nd - 4th rds. between Dallas & the 9ers to land Wisniewski if he lasts that long, his versatility could easily boost him into the late 1st as playoff teams like Chicago & the Steelers are rumored to be going after interior linemen & there aren't that many good ones this yr. The Bears dumped Tommie Harris but this draft is chockablock with NFL-ready DTs.

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Old 03-04-2011, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Why? I'm glad they didn't waste money on soon-to-be 30 year old safety.
I just love that Dan Synder found a way to overpay a guy right before the lockout. It's like an alcoholic who goes on a bender the night before he goes to rehab.
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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I'm surprised no one mentions Blaine Gabbert on here more often. If we take any quarterback in the 1st round, I would say it's him. Don't say no because the value isn't right, he's 8th on Kiper's and he's 6th on McShay's big board. Don't say no because he's a spread quarterback, it's not the death sentence everyone makes it out to be as Sam Bradford showed just last year. Jim Harbaugh recruited Gabbert pretty heavily out of high school so he obviously liked his tools then. Maybe Gabbert's accuracy didn't develop like Harbaugh wanted and he's soured on him or something but I think with a coach like Harbaugh, he thinks he can fix things in a quarterback and would not be shocked at all if he chose Gabbert.

I'd basically say our pick will be either Patrick Peterson, Prince Amukamara, Von Miller, Robert Quinn, or Blaine Gabbert at this point. It's hard to envision all four of the defenders being gone but Gabbert could go as high as number one.

Maybe either Marcell Dareus or Nick Fairley but I just think there are bigger needs. Not sure why there's talk on here about wasting a top 10 pick on a "space eater" like Dareus or Fairley. I mean we have Justin Smith on our team, not exactly a space eater. I'm sure the Patriots were plenty happy with their pick of a "space eater" like Richard Seymour in the top 10. Dareus and Fairley are each pass rush specialists in a 4-3 and would be expected to get pressure in the 3-4 as well. Fairley worries me in the transition to a 3-4 but Dareus, not so much.

Also funny that Atogwe got that much. Rams fans weren't too sad to see him leave, most said he had one really good year and was average the rest. Way too much money for an above average 30 year old safety for a rebuilding team like the Redskins.

edit: A little more on Gabbert.

“If I’m telling you he’s a top-10 pick, I’m willing to put my butt on the line and say he’s a top-one pick,” Mike Mayock said. “I mean one’s part of 10. Bottom line to me, if I’m telling you a kid’s a top-10 pick, I believe in Blaine Gabbert. And you know me, and you know my belief about franchise quarterbacks. They trump every other need. If you don’t have those guys, you don’t win in this league. You just don’t.”

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/...-top-one-pick/
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Why? I'm glad they didn't waste money on soon-to-be 30 year old safety.
I dont think that Atogwe is a waste of money either way. He's a playmaking safety that we have needed for a very long time, an upgrade over all the safeties that we currently have, is consistent and mainly healthy throughout his career as he's only missed 8 games out of a possible 96. Thats pretty damn good. WSH gave him a 5 year/$26m contract which isnt a lot at all considering the fact that people here have said that Goldson wants $7m a year. Not only that but when the new CBA gets done, if UFA for players start at the end of a four year contract, Goldson would be an UFA which means that we would have Mays, Smith and Taylor as our safeties plus Smith is an UFA next year.

I'm guessing that Atogwe's contract is backloaded which is what I would have done. He's still worth more than Goldson would be especially if he is still looking for $7m a year. And another thing, signing Atogwe would be bad because he's going to be 30 so going by that I assume that re-signing Baas and Spikes would be a waste of money too.

I just dont see any negatives if we would have signed Atogwe. Can only help our secondary. Sure as hell, cant make it any worse than what it already is.

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I just love that Dan Synder found a way to overpay a guy right before the lockout. It's like an alcoholic who goes on a bender the night before he goes to rehab.
I dont think he was overpaid at all. If anything, it was about where I was expecting him to get from any team who really wanted him. If we end up paying Goldson $7m a year, now that will be overpaying a player.

I just dont know why so many people here were against signing Atogwe especially when he's a playmaker which is what we need in the secondary. Oh well, if Goldson leaves, at least binary will be happy since Smith would most likely start at FS next season. Should be interesting to say the least.
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