San Francisco 49ers Discussion

[YAYareaRB]

You combined Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce lol

[YAYareaRB]

How about highlighting all the good things Crabtree has done. When I watch him play, I dont see a guy whos scared shitless. I see a QB and a WR who aren't on the same page mentally. Who's at fault here? No telling. Either way, Crabtree did what he could with subpar QB play and subpar OLine play.

[phlysac]

The Crabtree bashing is part of the Bi-Polar nature of our fanbase and reminds me of how so many 49ers fans panned Vernon Davis until 2009.

This Eric Branch article, I think is important to revisit...

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/...atch-on-later/

Look at how Crabtree stands up against the NFL's top WRs after 27 games.

RECEPTIONS
1. Larry Fitzgerald, 132
2. Dwayne Bowe, 128
3. Andre Johnson, 127
4. DeSean Jackson, 106
5. Michael Crabtree, 103
6. Calvin Johnson, 101
7. Greg Jennings, 98
8. Brandon Marshall, 85
9. Reggie Wayne, 67
10. Brandon Lloyd, 51
11. Roddy White, 49

YARDS
1. Andre Johnson, 1,869
2. Larry Fitzgerald, 1,779
3. Calvin Johnson, 1,727
4. Dwayne Bowe, 1,719
5. DeSean Jackson, 1,681
6. Greg Jennings, 1,552
7. Michael Crabtree, 1,366
8. Brandon Marshall, 1,223
9. Reggie Wayne, 928
10. Brandon Lloyd, 701
11. Roddy White, 669

TOUCHDOWNS
T1. Larry Fitzgerald, 15
T1. Greg Jennings, 15
3. Calvin Johnson, 12
4. Dwayne Bowe, 11
5. Andre Johnson, 9
T6. Michael Crabtree, 8
T6. DeSean Jackson, 8
8. Brandon Lloyd, 7
9. Brandon Marshall, 6
10. Roddy White, 3
11. Reggie Wayne, 2

The one that sticks out to me is DeSean Jackson. Many 49ers fans seemingly masturbate to DeSean Jackson and repeatedly bash the 49ers for not drafting him. Only 3 less catches and equal in TDs.

All of these numbers with Jimmy Raye/Mike Johnson at OC and Shaun Hill, Alex Smith, David Carr, and Troy Smith throwing him passes.

He's far from perfect, has alot of improvement to make in several areas, and could mature significantly on and off the field. But give the guy a break. He's been so far from a terrible player it's not even funny.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Rabscuttle

Ever see him extend for a ball in traffic?

I haven't seen any Niner WR extend for a ball in traffic here recently. If you have evidence that every WR not named Michael Crabtree are making all these spectacular catches in traffic, I'd sure like to see it.

Originally Posted by Rabscuttle

I think you need to look back at all those ints caused by Crab's tips when he heard steps last year before the ball quit going his way.

Ok, lets re-visit those.....

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-franci...fs-defense-INT

Bad read by Alex, even worst pass as he threw it inside where Flowers was sitting, ready to pounce. Not Crabtree's fault.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-franci...ts-defense-INT

Tip ball by the LB, int....again, not on Crabtree.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-franci...ks-defense-INT

Its clear in the reply, Crabtree doesn't look the ball into his hands before he turns his head upfield. You can definitely fault his hands for this one but I don't have a problem with the effort. Needs to make the simple play first before looking for YAC.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-franci...defense-INT-TD

Obvious mis-communication. Crabtree went out, the ball went in(and a high at that). I can't remember who was at fault but nothing there suggests to me he was scared of any contact.

[VAfy-ya]

And to piggy-back phlysac post.....

Crabtree is coming off a 55-catch second season in which his numbers almost exactly matched established averages for wideouts in Jimmy Raye-coordinated offenses. The 49ers fired Raye after three games, but they ran essentially the same offense. San Francisco, like some of Raye's teams in Kansas City, had a prolific receiving tight end, which affected opportunities for wide receivers.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post...pects-in-new-o

[Borat]

Ughhh, we got bigger issues than Crabtree. Lets move on.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Borat

Ughhh, we got bigger issues than Crabtree. Lets move on.

And that's really the point I was trying to make, believe it or not. Crabtree should be the least of our worries at this point. Moving on....

[Victory X]

I'm worried about NT. I've read rumors that Franklin is going to get a big contract for another team. I don't exactly feel very comfortable with Sopoga.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Victory X

I'm worried about NT. I've read rumors that Franklin is going to get a big contract for another team. I don't exactly feel very comfortable with Sopoga.

Absolutely, THIS is my main concern at the moment. I want to believe Franklin will be resigned, but with more teams switching to the odd front, he's going to command top dollar. I dont think Baalke will break the bank to keep him. He's one of the best 0-Tech's in the bussiness. Great techncian and a major reason why our run defense is so stout. And looking at the free agent list, there aren't alot of options. Chris Hoke, Mebane(who Im still iffy about as a 3-4 nose) and a aging Shaun Smith. And the rest aren't even worth mentioning. My guess is if we dont re-sign Franklin, we go after one of the better 5-techs on the market like Cullen Jenkins, Jacques Cesaire, or Marcus Spears and hope Sopoaga can provide steady play(a big ?). But that still leaves little depth behind him. After re-signing Baas, addressing the D-Line becomes top priority once the lockout is over.

[edgrenade]

The thing about NT is that we don't completely know what Fangio is looking for...

My wishful thinking is that Jean-Francois continues his progress and is able to fill in. The improved pass rush, with Aldon Smith, will also -- hopefully -- help out the D-Line. Another thing is that in the last couple of years, the d-line group has ranked pretty high, at least in the run-stopping category.

I guess I'm just putting faith in the new staff, plus we still have Tomsula!

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

He's one of the best 0-Tech's in the bussiness.

I've heard this from countless fans recently and it puzzles me. Franklin struggled in Nolan's 0-Tech 3-4/4-3 hybrid. He didn't start to excel until Manusky took the reigns and let them use a penetrating shade at NT.

Like mentioned in the previous post, alot depends on what Fangio envisions out of his defensive front.

Regardless, I would be more comfortable knowing Franklin was a fairly priced 49er in 2011.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by edgrenade

The thing about NT is that we don't completely know what Fangio is looking for...

My wishful thinking is that Jean-Francois continues his progress and is able to fill in. The improved pass rush, with Aldon Smith, will also -- hopefully -- help out the D-Line. Another thing is that in the last couple of years, the d-line group has ranked pretty high, at least in the run-stopping category.

I guess I'm just putting faith in the new staff, plus we still have Tomsula!

Very true about what kind of a NT Fangio perfers but my thing is, whether he's looking for more of a 2-gapper or not, there are very little options out there regardless of his preference. Let's say he is looking for more of a tree trunk at NT....what are his options? Alan Branch? Hell No! Pat Williams? Too old. Howard Green? Too old and too bad. Its just really bare as far as talent goes. And RJF at NT won't cut it. He's very active when he's in there and he'd be ok for a few snaps a game but he's really a 5-Tech moonlighting as a NT. He can't anchor nearly as well as a true nose and you could see last year in the pre-season when he played extended snaps. Evetually he'll get worn down and and as the game wears on, he'll get blown off the line. I commend the guy for showing verstality bit if he's your main back-up at NT, your 3-4 is in trouble. I really wish they would have left him at DE. He'd be ready to challenge for some serious minutes this upcoming season. I thought he flashed a ton of potential at DE.

If Fangio uses more of the 1-gap scheme he used with Stanford last year, Franklin is most defintelty the best option. He could actually probably do more with him, scheme-wise, than he was able to do with Fua. But if he is looking for more of a true 2-gapper, we might see him slide Sopoaga over. Now Ice isn't nearly the NT Franklin is, though he has improved his technique as a DE. The thing I worry about is he was moved to DE for a reason. And he himself has said he perfers DE over nose. So do you move him away from his comfort zone knowing it might mean a drop-off in his level of play? Did I mention, I love talking football, lol.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by phlysac

I've heard this from countless fans recently and it puzzles me. Franklin struggled in Nolan's 0-Tech 3-4/4-3 hybrid. He didn't start to excel until Manusky took the reigns and let them use a penetrating shade at NT.

Like mentioned in the previous post, alot depends on what Fangio envisions out of his defensive front.

Regardless, I would be more comfortable knowing Franklin was a fairly priced 49er in 2011.

Its not really puzzling if you think about it. Nolan's hybrid had Franklin more as 2-gapper. But it also moved him around alot, from 3-4 NT, to 1-tech, to 3-Tech in a even front in some instances. Im a firm believer in versatility, but I think too much flip-flopping can stunt growth. Remember, Franklin was a 3rd string project when we signed him as a free-agent. He was still learning. And when you don't bring alot of physical attributes to the table, you have learn to do other things well. And I think simplifying his role and responsibilty, while sticking to one scheme allowed him to work at his technique as a 0-Tech extensively and improve. I also think him and J. Smith just work so well together in our base front, especially versus the run. I think Nolan asked for much more than his ability allowed him to do at that time. But he wasn't really bad under Nolan. He just didn't really stand out because fans saw guys like Sopoaga and Marques Douglass penetrating and making plays, but Franklin was the guy playing his role, freeing those other guys up to do those things. I remember getting into it with posters on another board before the '09 season because they all said Franklin was garbage and we needed a upgrade in the worst way. They all call me crazy for defending the guy but he showed them and the rest of those not in the know that year just how good he really was.

[phlysac]

I'm not trying to argue but your post is exactly why I'm puzzled...

He played a 0-tech under Nolan and NOT under Manuskey, at least as far as what I remember seeing and reading.

However, Fangio will be running a bit of a hybrid, himself.


We will see just how important the 49ers see the need at NT.

[phlysac]

End of drama.... Crabtree is here.

List of players at Camp Smith

Here's the list of 49ers players who attended today's offensive minicamp. Some notable no-shows were Frank Gore, whom Alex Smith indicated would take part and who could show up later this week, and offensive lineman Adam Snyder, who has heretofore been a stalwart at the 49ers' workouts at San Jose State.

Quarterbacks
Alex Smith
David Carr
Colin Kaepernick

Running backs
Anthony Dixon
Kendall Hunter
Moran Norris

Wide receivers
Michael Crabtree
Ted Ginn
Ronald Johnson
Kevin Jurovich
Josh Morgan
Kyle Williams
Dominique Zeigler (is running after ACL injury, but not yet running pass routes).

Tight ends
Nate Byham
Vernon Davis
Delanie Walker

Offensive linemen
Anthony Davis
Mike Iupati
Mike Person
Joe Staley
*Daniel Kilgore's agent said his client would be on hand this week.

In addition, there were five defensive linemen present. They, however, are part of the group that regularly works out at San Jose State and did not take part in any of Monday's practice drills with the offensive players. They are:

OLB Parys Haralson
DL Ray McDonald
DL Justin Smith
DL Isaac Sopoaga
S Curtis Taylor

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...f-players.html

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by phlysac

I'm not trying to argue but your post is exactly why I'm puzzled...

He played a 0-tech under Nolan and NOT under Manuskey, at least as far as what I remember seeing and reading.

However, Fangio will be running a bit of a hybrid, himself.


We will see just how important the 49ers see the need at NT.

No, he played 0-Tech for both coaches. Nolan just had Franklin as primarily a 2-gaper. He would move him around some but his responsibilty was pretty much the same wherever he lined-up though. Under Manusky, he was allow to penetrate more. Our scheme was more 1-gap oriented under Manusky, which I belived was influenced from his time in San Deigo, coaching under their DC at the time, Wade Phillips.

And I'm not sure about Fangio's use of a hybrid. He'll employ some four man lines in nickel situations but that's not the same as running a true hybrid. Most 3-4 teams have even looks in their nickel packages so its not out of the ordinary. But I'd be surprised to see him play extended snaps with a four-man front using base personel.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

No, he played 0-Tech for both coaches. Nolan just had Franklin as primarily a 2-gaper. He would move him around some but his responsibilty was pretty much the same wherever he lined-up though. Under Manusky, he was allow to penetrate more. Our scheme was more 1-gap oriented under Manusky, which I belived was influenced from his time in San Deigo, coaching under their DC at the time, Wade Phillips.

That's what I'm saying. A 1-gap penetrating NT isn't a 0-Tech. A 0-Tech (at least in my understanding) is faceup with the Center and 2-gaps (responsible for both A-gaps.) If Franklin shades (as I assumed he did under Manusky) it would be 1-technique or 2-technique, which is responsible for one A-gap or the other.

None of this matters if Franklin returns or the 49ers have other options they are happy with.

[VAfy-ya]

double post

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by phlysac

That's what I'm saying. A 1-gap penetrating NT isn't a 0-Tech. A 0-Tech (at least in my understanding) is faceup with the Center and 2-gaps (responsible for both A-gaps.) If Franklin shades (as I assumed he did under Manusky) it would be 1-technique or 2-technique, which is responsible for one A-gap or the other.

None of this matters if Franklin returns or the 49ers have other options they are happy with.

But Franklin doesn't penetrate all the time. He's primary function is still to clog gaps, but he's also a very effective 1-gapper. Technique just defines where the lineman lines up relative to the O-Lineman but their responsiblity once the ball is snap may change, depending on the formation and personel. You can pentrate out of the 0-Tech position. You can have your NT and the LDE 2-gapping, while the RDE 1-gaps. You can have both your DE's 1-gap while the NT 2-gaps. You can have all 3 guys 2-gap or all 3 lineman 1-gap. Just depends on what the play-call dictates and the way the LB's are used in corespondence to the line calls. What makes Franklin so good is he can do both really well. He may not be a "push the pocket" kind of 2-gapper, but he can clog and occupy blockers with the best of them. I think he's better at penetrating and slipping blocks than people give him credit. Only NT better than him at it is Ratcliff.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by phlysac

End of drama.... Crabtree is here.

Guess I was wrong...

Originally Posted by Michael Crabtree

Who's the quarterback?

Originally Posted by Matt Barrows

Alex Smith.

Originally Posted by Michael Crabtree

He's the quarterback? I'm just asking.

Originally Posted by Michael Crabtree

Whoever the quarterback is I'm gonna do my job. I'm going to do the best I can to get whatever he needs. You know what I'm saying? That's just how it's going to be. I'm not one-sided. I'm for whoever's the quarterback. It's just how I've been. Everybody knows that.

Originally Posted by Matt Barrows

But wouldn't you agree that it appears as if Smith is going to be that guy this year?

Originally Posted by Michael Crabtree

I wish I could tell you that. I know that you're all scratching at it. I wish I could tell you who is going to be the quarterback. I don't know. I don't know. Whoever the quarterback is, I'm 100 percent down with it and I'm ready to go. That's it.

:(

That's some of what Crabtree said. Now compare that to what Vernon Davis had to say...

Originally Posted by Tim Kawakami

What does it say to you that Alex will be doing all this organizing, without a contract?

Originally Posted by Vernon Davis

I'm not surprised because I know Alex. I've been here with him. That's what leaders do. He's a leader. He's trying to set an example. And that's what we need around here. We need Alex to step up like he's doing.

Originally Posted by Tim Kawakami

When you're in the room, who's running the sessions?

Originally Posted by Vernon Davis

Alex. Alex. That's his job, he's the quarterback, he has to. That's what quarterbacks are supposed to do. That's what you want him to do. You want him to be that leader. Any time you have any questions offensively, you should go to Alex. He should break everything down to you.

Originally Posted by Tim Kawakami

He's up on the grease board?

Originally Posted by Vernon Davis

Yeah, he's doing pretty much what the coaches would do. Projector, the plays, we're taking notes. Things like that.

Originally Posted by Tim Kawakami

But he's not even on the roster.

Originally Posted by Vernon Davis

He will be.

[phlysac]

I don't mean to come across as bashing Crabtree. My history has shown that I support him as a 49er. But UGH....

Crabtree didn't workout with teammates today because his new shoes hurt his feet.

[Rabscuttle]

When given opportunity to show what he's about, he consistantly has.

[phlysac]

In my opinion this is EASILY the best news coming from Camp Alex thus far...

(Delanie) Walker lost 15 pounds from last season and expects to work more as a slot receiver this year.

BEAUTIFUL!!!

[Rabscuttle]

That could be interesting if he's quicker and crisper with his routes as well. I think most fans have hopes that the new coaching staff will be better at exploiting mismatches and Walker would be a handful in the slot.

[Borat]

Originally Posted by Rabscuttle

When given opportunity to show what he's about, he consistantly has.

Sounds about right. He has no work ethic.