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Old 09-15-2011, 03:22 PM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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Smith's limitations as a QB also dictatates alot of the play-calling. Honestly, I think Harbs knows the O-Line isnt there yet and he's trying not to get Alex killed. But you gotta take the training wheels off at some point. The guy has been in the league for 6 years now. The line has three first-round draft picks and one second rounder. Sink or swim time. Harbs heaped all this praise on Alex all throughout the off-season and lockout, let him and the rest of the offense go down fighting. But its only week two and I knew it would take time, but last week was just hard to watch. Can't stomach too many more of those.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Point taken. But those ppl are probably the same ones who were writing VD off after his third year, with the drops, lack of production, fights in TC, excessive celebration penalties, running wrong routes and what not so its like I've heard this 'dont tell me, show me record' record before. We spent a sixth overall pick on a glorified blocking TE....those were the kind of things being said about him. Majority of fans only care about the 'now'......they want immediate gradification without considering the variables involved in what they're asking for. Its understandable to a degree, but ill-warranted 90% of the time.
Well I will say that Davis was a different case for me and I defended him tooth and nail. The only issue I had with Davis was the constant drops. But anyone should have seen that he had all the potential in the world from that first catch he made in his rookie year that went for a touchdown. He was just stuck with terrible coordinators and terrible quarterback play. But he at least never gave me the impression he never wanted to be here or held out a bunch for money missing valuable training camp time.

Which brings me back to Crabtree. I understand trying to get as much money as you feel you are worth, but at the same time a spade is a spade and you are going to get paid the amount of money were you are slotted at. From what I remember he wanted to get paid more than Darius Heyward-Bey because he was supposed to be the better prospect. Which is stupid. That's like me walking into a store and demanding that I should have won the lottery from the previous week because I was supposed to buy a ticket at a certain time that day like I always do, but missed the cut by an hour.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Smith's limitations as a QB also dictatates alot of the play-calling. Honestly, I think Harbs knows the O-Line isnt there yet and he's trying not to get Alex killed. But you gotta take the training wheels off at some point. The guy has been in the league for 6 years now. The line has three first-round draft picks and one second rounder. Sink or swim time. Harbs heaped all this praise on Alex all throughout the off-season and lockout, let him and the rest of the offense go down fighting. But its only week two and I knew it would take time, but last week was just hard to watch. Can't stomach too many more of those.
Well Alex needs to be replaced plain and simple. He's just not very good. It's an unfortunate reality, but that is what happens in the NFL. There are those who try and try and try, but still can't succeed, and then there are those who don't try that hard and dominate. Smith is a great guy from what we've all heard, but he's not a great quarterback and never will be. It's been seven years and we still haven't seen much, if anything significant on our returned investment.
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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GREG COSELL: And Alex Smith, quite honestly, is not a very quick decision maker. A play that, to me, sums up Alex Smith –there was a 3 & 9 in the 2 quarter last week where he ended up throwing an incomplete check down to Frank Gore. I don’t know if you guys remember this specific play.

Q: We do, it was in the first half.

GREG COSELL: Yes, yes. And it was a very basic, what we call three-by-one set. Three receivers to his left, one receiver to his right. The read was defined before the snap of the ball. It was very basic stuff. And he panicked in the pocket, and threw a frenetic incomplete check down. And then what happened later in the game in the 4 quarter?They had two 3 & goals –one before roughing the kicker and one right after roughing the kicker, both from the four yard line. Did you notice they handed off on both of them?
This is what is most confusing to me...

"He isn't a quick decision-maker."---

To me, you're saying he makes the decision to check down TOO QUICKLY.
Now which is it?

Comparing 3rd and 9 from midfield and 3rd and goal from the 4 are two ENTIRELY different circumstances. Especially considering Smith's history. 30 TDs to 1 INT in the red-zone in his career. You trust him in midfield but not inside the 5? Not accurate reporting. Also, he hit Gore right in the hands and he dropped it. Yep, Smith's fault.

Another thing, blaming the running 6 times in a row inside the 5 on Smith??? Really. That's when fans got most pissed off at the play-calling. I guess it's easier just to put all blame on the easiest scapegoat.

Also in regards to the "Crabtree was wide open in the endzone and Smith checked down" comments being made ad nauseum...

This seems to draw different thoughts from different people. I heard other "experts" say that Gore was option #2 in his progression and Crabtree was #3. If that's the case, it wasn't a checkdown, it was a decision made too quickly to not go through ALL of his reads.

The funny thing is that when he has time to sit in the pocket and make all the reads he seems to always hit the guy. But the media doesn't write about that.
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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well I got to see the end of the on Sunday and enjoy the two kick of returns from Ted Gin he is such a good returner for us.I just wish I would have gotten to see of our offense work then running plays but it looked a lot better then preseason.I was so disspointed but not shocked to see Smith passing only 130 yards or so
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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This is what is most confusing to me...

"He isn't a quick decision-maker."---

To me, you're saying he makes the decision to check down TOO QUICKLY.
Now which is it?

Comparing 3rd and 9 from midfield and 3rd and goal from the 4 are two ENTIRELY different circumstances. Especially considering Smith's history. 30 TDs to 1 INT in the red-zone in his career. You trust him in midfield but not inside the 5? Not accurate reporting. Also, he hit Gore right in the hands and he dropped it. Yep, Smith's fault.

Another thing, blaming the running 6 times in a row inside the 5 on Smith??? Really. That's when fans got most pissed off at the play-calling. I guess it's easier just to put all blame on the easiest scapegoat.

Also in regards to the "Crabtree was wide open in the endzone and Smith checked down" comments being made ad nauseum...

This seems to draw different thoughts from different people. I heard other "experts" say that Gore was option #2 in his progression and Crabtree was #3. If that's the case, it wasn't a checkdown, it was a decision made too quickly to not go through ALL of his reads.

The funny thing is that when he has time to sit in the pocket and make all the reads he seems to always hit the guy. But the media doesn't write about that.
Even if Gore catches the ball, he's stopped for a minimal gain so its a moot point. But Cosell sums up what I've been saying about Smith for awhile. Not that I blame the play-calling at the goaline on Smith but to quote Cosell he tends to "see ghosts" alot and panics when simplying sliding one way or another in the pocket and dillegently going through all his reads would keep drives going and put more points on the board.

Even if Crabs is his third read, quickly going through his progressions should have told him reads 1 and 2 were not going to get him what that offense needed. If I recall, I dont think the pass-rush on that play was overwhelming to where he couldn't had held the ball a half seccond longer and went to that 3rd read.

It just seems more often than not, you see good QBs hold on to that ball until the last possible nano second and at least complete a pass thats close to the first down marker. Alex seems way to content to just checkdown to a pass he knows has no chance of moving the chains and run off the field. And alot of those instances, the lines gives him some absemblence of a pocket. But like I said earlier, alot of that comes from years of Smith not being coached up be better prepared in these instances. As much as I rag on Smith, I STILL believe he's a talented guy and Harbs or any good QB guy(Norv Turner, Andy Reid) could make him look like a stud in due time.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Even if Gore catches the ball, he's stopped for a minimal gain so its a moot point. But Cosell sums up what I've been saying about Smith for awhile. Not that I blame the play-calling at the goaline on Smith but to quote Cosell he tends to "see ghosts" alot and panics when simplying sliding one way or another in the pocket and dillegently going through all his reads would keep drives going and put more points on the board.

Even if Crabs is his third read, quickly going through his progressions should have told him reads 1 and 2 were not going to get him what that offense needed. If I recall, I dont think the pass-rush on that play was overwhelming to where he couldn't had held the ball a half seccond longer and went to that 3rd read.

It just seems more often than not, you see good QBs hold on to that ball until the last possible nano second and at least complete a pass thats close to the first down marker. Alex seems way to content to just checkdown to a pass he knows has no chance of moving the chains and run off the field. And alot of those instances, the lines gives him some absemblence of a pocket. But like I said earlier, alot of that comes from years of Smith not being coached up be better prepared in these instances. As much as I rag on Smith, I STILL believe he's a talented guy and Harbs or any good QB guy(Norv Turner, Andy Reid) could make him look like a stud in due time.
I'm not in disagreement, I just see the dichotomy and the hypocrisy in the "Alex Smith Story" so-to-speak...

1. Most QBs that have been crushed their entire caree "see ghosts." Either he pulls out of it, or he doesn't.

2. You said it yourself, "quickly goes through his progressions"... It's always something. If he'd have thrown it to Edwards and it would've went incomplete or been intercepted, most would've said "he didn't go through his progressions." Cosell said the opposite of "quickly through his progressions", he said he doesn't "make quick decisions." I don't see how it can be both. Again, I see it as being a case where people are going to blame Smith, regardless.

3. As for Smith tending to check down instead "waiting till the last nano-second"... It's funny. I remember reading article after article during Smith's years with Nolan and Sing about them having the timer on him. Where he was forced to get the ball out quickly or he'd be asked to do it again. I think that training, although well intentioned actually stunted his ability to sit in the pocket and make the "extra" read.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Yea, I remember reading about the the whole 3 sec timer thing and at the time I understood what they were trying to do but it goes against everything thing I think makes great QBs great. Every snap is different so that whole robotic approach goes against everything Harbs means when he talks about "athletic instincts".

But me personally I never get too hung up on ints with Alex. He's usually smart with the ball. Its rare you see Alex throwing into double coverage or forcing the ball somewhere. Qbs make wrong reads and tend to not notice the underneath coverage. It happens. I would never fault any QB for trying to get the ball to a playmaker and a ball gets tipped and its int. **** happens. Certain situations called for a more smart approach, others I think you can roll the dice a little. I'd perfer Alex to roll the dice a little more.

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Old 09-15-2011, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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I'd perfer Alex to roll the dice a little more.
In 100% agreement!

He needs the confidence of himself and his coaches, or it'll never happen.

I'm one of the rare ones who thinks he actually has ability. It's the confidence that is missing. Will it ever be there? Chances are less and less each game that passes.
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Old 09-15-2011, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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It's so frustrating. You know he's working his ass off. You know he's willing to sellout to make a play for his team. On occasion we get to see glimpses of what could be, but it just hasn't all come together. How much is there? A few games down the road we should see if things are going to start coming together or not.

It would be nice to see things turn out well for one of the nice guys in the sport. If it doesn't, Josh Johnson is a free agent and I'm sure Harbaugh is paying attention to what Kaepernick and Tolzien are doing in film study and on the practice field and will approach the off-season accordingly.

I'm fine with the front office not panicking and taking a bandaid approach to the position this year that wouldn't have worked out for the better anyhow.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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It's so frustrating. You know he's working his ass off. You know he's willing to sellout to make a play for his team. On occasion we get to see glimpses of what could be, but it just hasn't all come together. How much is there? A few games down the road we should see if things are going to start coming together or not.

It would be nice to see things turn out well for one of the nice guys in the sport. If it doesn't, Josh Johnson is a free agent and I'm sure Harbaugh is paying attention to what Kaepernick and Tolzien are doing in film study and on the practice field and will approach the off-season accordingly.

I'm fine with the front office not panicking and taking a bandaid approach to the position this year that wouldn't have worked out for the better anyhow.
Couldn't have said it any better......

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Old 09-15-2011, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Couldn't have said it any better......
At the same time, if the team has every intent of moving on without Smith... why not at least put it on him to see what he's got and increasing his value.

If he blows up with the responsibility, fine. He was done anyways. But what if, just if, he does well??? God forbid.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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The funny thing is that when he has time to sit in the pocket and make all the reads he seems to always hit the guy. But the media doesn't write about that.
Smith doesn't make enough big plays consistently to warrant getting attention.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 09-16-2011, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Former cornerback Eric Davis brought up an interesting point. Jim Harbaugh may not want Alex as his guy, but he's the best he has for now and he'll just have to put up with him until he finds his true signal-caller, which will probably come in the following draft. Not to mention early on the 49ers did try to sign Matt Hasselbeck, who opted for Tennessee. So unfortunately the 49ers had to settle with Alex. Too bad we couldn't get the 2006 Alex back. He looked like had potential.
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Old 09-16-2011, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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I'm supposedly a big "Alex supporter" but I think the conservative offensive philosophy that constantly surrounds him has worn me down....I'm tired of seeing it. I don't see the point of having a QB that you don't have total confidence in, and if that's the case we need to move on.

I saw improved pocket presence from him on Sunday, he is now feeling pressure and scrambling well. His accuracy and footwork are the best they've ever been. However, this tendency to freeze up and panic, and make slow decisions is always going to be there. Like Martz said, ever since '07 he cleary has no trust in his WRs or Oline to help him out. It'll definitely be time to move on at the end of the season, he's clearly a stopgap and nothing else. I feel bad for him because his coaching the last two years has been horrendous, but that goes back to the stupidity of the front office.

All that being said, it would be great to see things "open up" in a good system, with good weapons, and good playmakers. I agree with phlysac, if he's not the answer then we might as well just let him air it out vs. good teams and let him crash and burn. If Dallas starts tearing us up, let's let Alex air it out and see what this Offense can do...he's shown flashes before.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:34 AM    (permalink
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At the same time, if the team has every intent of moving on without Smith... why not at least put it on him to see what he's got and increasing his value.

If he blows up with the responsibility, fine. He was done anyways. But what if, just if, he does well??? God forbid.
Nothing wrong with that idea. He does have more than what he was given the chance to do sunday, that's for sure. The conservative thing may have been just to keep things comfortable for the team.....sure hope so. we won't win too many games against decent teams kicking field goals if they know how to cover.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Like I said earlier, I think the vanilla look of the offense is more a statement on the O-Line as of now. We all saw it in the pre-season. The line will need some time to gel. But just like with Alex, you have to take off the training wheels at some point and let all these guys you spent high draft picks on prove it. Harbaalke thinks Staley's a franchise left tackle, let him prove it. Ware's coming to town so I'll be watching his battle with Staley very closely. But all these guys, Davis, Iupati, Rachal.....if you think they're the future, stop protecting them and let's see what they're made of. That way if they're not, you can give guys like Boone, Kilgore and Person some extended snaps and see if they might be the answer.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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Smith's limitations as a QB also dictatates alot of the play-calling. Honestly, I think Harbs knows the O-Line isnt there yet and he's trying not to get Alex killed. But you gotta take the training wheels off at some point. The guy has been in the league for 6 years now. The line has three first-round draft picks and one second rounder. Sink or swim time. Harbs heaped all this praise on Alex all throughout the off-season and lockout, let him and the rest of the offense go down fighting. But its only week two and I knew it would take time, but last week was just hard to watch. Can't stomach too many more of those.
I thought Barrows brought up an interesting point:
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Comment From Matt
Harbaugh and Urban Meyer remind me of one another, obviously not in their offenses' styles, but in their competitive nature and overall strategy. I think that is exactly the way Meyer would have played an inferior week 1 opponent with a difficult matchup looming in week 2. Maybe it is just a college thing, but Harbaugh is keeping Dallas in the dark.
1:11

MattB_49:
Agree. Also, I wonder if, like Meyer, Harbaugh has a good read on Smith's mental makeup and is taking him along as slowly as possible. That also would explain the vanilla latte nature of Week 1.
His response also plays into my theory of why Smith plays well near the end of seasons. I have never believed that it had to due with "Smith having nothing to lose" (as some poster's suggest) but rather he has a full grasp of the offense. While I do believe that Smith is being micro managed to the extreme, I would not be surprised if Harbaugh plays more conservative until he feels that Smith has a comfortable grasp of the offense. /watches as Smith attempts 40 throws on Sunday.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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When does the Cowboys game thread go up? It's Cowboys week!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-17-2011, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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When does the Cowboys game thread go up? It's Cowboys week!!!!!!!!!
Have at it guys!

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48688
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Old 09-18-2011, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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On to week 3 against the Bengals...i don't even want to think about the Cowboys game. A heartbreaking loss like that is going to take a while to forget.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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On to week 3 against the Bengals...i don't even want to think about the Cowboys game. A heartbreaking loss like that is going to take a while to forget.
I'm still debating if I want to watch the DirectTV "Shortcuts" version of that game tomorrow.

I am looking forward to seeing how this team performs with the dreaded 10am start time. Would love to have Edwards, Crabs, and Goldson all back for this game. Tired of Reggie Smith and Williams playing center field out there and Goldson would be a HUGE upgrade.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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49ers better beat the Bengals. The secondary needs to play a lot better especially at safety. And I hope if we get in another close contest we don't play soft again and keep giving up slants. It was ridiculous how open the Cowboys receivers were getting in today's game. I know players like Witten and Austin are good, but they were just way too open.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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If the Niners lose to the Bengals with their team of Ex-Niners cast-offs, I'll be livid.
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:22 AM    (permalink
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If the Niners lose to the Bengals with their rookie QB, who shouldn't pose a threat to our secondary.
Fixed it for you. Also, "shouldn't" being the keyword there. Of course that is subjunctive, so odds are he'll throw for 320 yards and we lose.
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