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Old 10-19-2011, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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I don't know if our offense would look like the Packers, but let's face facts here. Aaron Rodgers would be able to get the ball down the field a lot better than Alex Smith. It's just that simple.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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Really, Alex's lack of yards comes down to two main factors: Alex's accuracy and our WRs aren't gamebreakers. Alex can deliver the ball fine, but he doesn't lead the receiver enough to give them a better chance at yards after catch. But our WRs are also much better possession receivers than big-play threats. Vernon is really the only huge play threat from the passing game.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:36 AM    (permalink
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It's very frustrating. It's bothering me that our passing game is awful, despite the wins.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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New Gameday thread is up!

Also, I left the week 6 Gameday thread open for those that want to discuss handshakegate.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
For all those doubting Alex Smith is anything more than a manager manager these are his stats when we are trailing in the second half, which has happened three times this year.

- 28/39 (71.8%)
- 343 yards
- 8.8 Y/A
- 3 TD
- 0 INT
- 124.2 QB rating
- Three 4th Quarter comebacks, all on the road against teams a combined 11-4 not including losses to the 49ers
that's very impressive stuff, and definitely not typical of a "game manager". Were probably never gonna get huge yardage in this Offense, but the efficiency is top notch right now.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Verloren View Post
I think it's more along the lines of getting a QB that will allow the team to come from behind or get those big plays when needed. We've seen that the scheme works. Unfortunately, we don't know what will happen if the 49ers repeatedly go up against other teams with good to great systems and play well on a consistent basis
you pretty much described Alex this year.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:40 AM    (permalink
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It's very frustrating. It's bothering me that our passing game is awful, despite the wins.
lol, I don't see how any niner fan can be frustrated right now. We're 5-1, we've passed to win big games, we've run to win big games, and our D is looking elite. It's almost sad when I hear niner fans still complaining.

As long as we don't get penalized up and down the field, we'll be fine (this has been overlooked, it killed any rhythm on offense).
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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lol, I don't see how any niner fan can be frustrated right now. We're 5-1, we've passed to win big games, we've run to win big games, and our D is looking elite. It's almost sad when I hear niner fans still complaining.

As long as we don't get penalized up and down the field, we'll be fine (this has been overlooked, it killed any rhythm on offense).
Its mind-boggling really. I mean you would think we're 1-5 the way ppl are talking about the offense.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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Really, Alex's lack of yards comes down to two main factors: Alex's accuracy and our WRs aren't gamebreakers. Alex can deliver the ball fine, but he doesn't lead the receiver enough to give them a better chance at yards after catch. But our WRs are also much better possession receivers than big-play threats. Vernon is really the only huge play threat from the passing game.
Our WRs are the not the problem. Brady has a glorified possession WR(Welker), 2 TEs and a aging Branch as his main targets and he has no problem scoring points. Its a different approach, different philosphy offensively. Even if we had a elite QB, you think Harbs would be throwing the ball 35-45 times a game? I dont, not for a second.....not with this team.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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Alex isn't putting up 300 yard passing days because that's not Harbaughs style. Harbaugh is run first. If the Niners could win every game only running the ball he would do it. All the big plays in his offense through the air are off of play action.

/qb conversation
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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lol, I don't see how any niner fan can be frustrated right now. We're 5-1, we've passed to win big games, we've run to win big games, and our D is looking elite. It's almost sad when I hear niner fans still complaining.

As long as we don't get penalized up and down the field, we'll be fine (this has been overlooked, it killed any rhythm on offense).
I can't remember the last team that had a passing attack that ranked nearly last that won the Super Bowl.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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I can't remember the last team that had a passing attack that ranked nearly last that won the Super Bowl.
But the fact is that we have proven we can pass when we need to. It is not like we don't pass because we can't. We don't pass because we haven't needed to yet.

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Old 10-19-2011, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I can't remember the last team that had a passing attack that ranked nearly last that won the Super Bowl.
Clearly your expectations are way too high. patience
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I can't remember the last team that had a passing attack that ranked nearly last that won the Super Bowl.
Correct about that one. Here are where the 2 teams ranked in the last 8 Super Bowls in terms of season passing yardage:
Packers (5th) vs Steelers (14th)
Colts (2nd) vs Saints (4th)
Steelers (17th) vs Cardinals (2nd)
Patriots (1st) vs Giants (21st)
Bears (14th) vs Colts (2nd)
Steelers (24th) vs Seahawks (13th)
Patriots (11th) vs Eagles (7th)
Pats (9th) vs Panthers (18th)

However I do believe that the Steelers and Giants do provide an interesting blueprint for this current 49ers team. If the 49ers can find away to get near the early 20's, late teens are of yardage rankings it would be the 49ers a pretty balanced offense.

Listened to Football Outsiders writer Aaron Schatz on the BS Report yesterday and he was talking about how there are truly no balanced teams in football. He believed the more balanced you are offensively, the more of a chance you have in the post season because you are not one dimensional. I firmly believe that as well. If the 49ers can make strides into the low 20's of passing yards, then we have a shot.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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But the fact is that we have proven we can pass when we need to. It is not like we don't pass because we can't. We don't pass because we haven't needed to yet.
Pretty much. Why pass when you can go low-risk and run, yet still dominate the game? Walsh was all about being balanced early on, and I think Harbaugh is the same way. In the Cinci game we couldn't run and kept getting penalized in the first half, so we passed more in the 2nd half and pulled it out. In the Philly game we fell behind so we came out passing and pulled it out, while using the run to close it out.

The Tampa Bay game we didn't pass for a lot of yardage, but it was our passing game that dominated that team. We were able to convert multiple 3rd and longs very easily and it deflated their team. Not only that, we came out passing on the first drives of each half when they expected run, and we killed them.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Pretty much. Why pass when you can go low-risk and run, yet still dominate the game? Walsh was all about being balanced early on, and I think Harbaugh is the same way. In the Cinci game we couldn't run and kept getting penalized in the first half, so we passed more in the 2nd half and pulled it out. In the Philly game we fell behind so we came out passing and pulled it out, while using the run to close it out.

The Tampa Bay game we didn't pass for a lot of yardage, but it was our passing game that dominated that team. We were able to convert multiple 3rd and longs very easily and it deflated their team. Not only that, we came out passing on the first drives of each half when they expected run, and we killed them.
Excatly. We've passed to move the chains and we've passed for big gains. For me, its the play-calling. I thought it was lacking the first 3 weeks but its been great for the last 10 quarters. Its been attacking and clever. Roman has been delibrate but unpredictable. He's kept the focus on pounding the rock, but has masked it so well that its catching teams off-guard. Especially how he's using the personel. I thought the fourth down play for the go ahead TD versus the Lions was just a beautifully designed play. Passing yards will come, Im not concerned at this point. If we're winning with what were doing, why change it just for the sake of changing it? The least we can expose teams to, scheme-wise the better until we are forced to.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Yes, last week when the Niners were down 10-0, the Lions laid back a bit, expecting the pass. The Niners instead came out and continued to establish the run, gashing them a few times to get scores and eventually, take the lead. As there was a lot of time in the game, they didn't have to panic, stuck with hat they did well, and got the points they needed. I really admired that situational playcalling as many other HCs or OCs would have abandoned the pass down two scores early, predictably chucking the rock over and again.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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But the fact is that we have proven we can pass when we need to. It is not like we don't pass because we can't. We don't pass because we haven't needed to yet.
Since when? The only game where that happened is when the Eagles collapsed...and they're looking like a terrible secondary in the first place as they can't tackle at all. In our first few games both our pass game and run game was terrible. Don't say we didn't need it against the Bengals because we were gashing their team with our run game. Or Seattle even.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Pretty much. Why pass when you can go low-risk and run, yet still dominate the game? Walsh was all about being balanced early on, and I think Harbaugh is the same way. In the Cinci game we couldn't run and kept getting penalized in the first half, so we passed more in the 2nd half and pulled it out. In the Philly game we fell behind so we came out passing and pulled it out, while using the run to close it out.

The Tampa Bay game we didn't pass for a lot of yardage, but it was our passing game that dominated that team. We were able to convert multiple 3rd and longs very easily and it deflated their team. Not only that, we came out passing on the first drives of each half when they expected run, and we killed them.
You do what the strength of your team is. It's obvious that Harbaugh doesn't trust Alex enough to pass the ball. Most of the completions Alex has done have been near the sidelines. He never goes deep and never passes over the middle that much. And Walsh had a tendency to pass the ball a lot more than he probably should have early on. But that isn't surprising because they never had a true franchise back until Tyler came along, and then other backs like Rathman and Craig. Before that it was Lenvell Elliot I think? And Bill Ring.

Oh and our passing game didn't dominate Tampa Bay. It was the run game. We ran for over 200 yards in that game and dominated from start to finish in that department. We only had 11 completed passes. And we were 2/7 on third downs in that contest. Not that impressive.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Since when? The only game where that happened is when the Eagles collapsed...and they're looking like a terrible secondary in the first place as they can't tackle at all. In our first few games both our pass game and run game was terrible. Don't say we didn't need it against the Bengals because we were gashing their team with our run game. Or Seattle even.
I already gave the numbers for Alex Smith when we are playing from behind in the second half.

- 28/39 (71.8%)
- 343 yards
- 8.8 Y/A
- 3 TD
- 0 INT
- 124.2 QB rating

In the second half against the Bengals when we were behind he went 10/12 for 118 yards leading two scoring drives. Not to mention he had a touchdown called back because Crabtree supposedly stepped out of bounds, though it looked like he really didn't on the replay. With that he would have gone 9/11 for 122 yards and a touchdown.

And we never had the need to pass against the Seahawks. Even with our poor offense we were in control of that game all day. As soon as they got within one score we put together a nine minute drive to put us up by two scores again and Smith didn't even see the field again.
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:39 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
I already gave the numbers for Alex Smith when we are playing from behind in the second half.

- 28/39 (71.8%)
- 343 yards
- 8.8 Y/A
- 3 TD
- 0 INT
- 124.2 QB rating

In the second half against the Bengals when we were behind he went 10/12 for 118 yards leading two scoring drives. Not to mention he had a touchdown called back because Crabtree supposedly stepped out of bounds, though it looked like he really didn't on the replay. With that he would have gone 9/11 for 122 yards and a touchdown.

And we never had the need to pass against the Seahawks. Even with our poor offense we were in control of that game all day. As soon as they got within one score we put together a nine minute drive to put us up by two scores again and Smith didn't even see the field again.
You're missing the point though. Our run game stalled early. And when we wanted to pass because our run game was sucking, we still couldn't. It's not as simple as "Oh we're just not passing because our run game has been so great", because early that wasn't the case. We couldn't run the ball very well or pass the ball very well. Thus far, it's worked when we absolutely needed it to work at the very last moment, but that doesn't really excuse the passing game for not clicking early in a lot of our contests, keeping games close and tight.

Why not post statistics from the first half of all of our games separately? Getting off to a great day passing the ball from the get-go shouldn't be forgotten as well.

And like I said, a team that ranked near dead last in passing offense has maybe never won a Super Bowl.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 10-19-2011, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Clearly your expectations are way too high. patience
We're most likely going to the playoffs. Once the 49ers get there the goal is to win a Super Bowl. How is that too high of an expectation?
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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You're missing the point though. Our run game stalled early. And when we wanted to pass because our run game was sucking, we still couldn't. It's not as simple as "Oh we're just not passing because our run game has been so great", because early that wasn't the case. We couldn't run the ball very well or pass the ball very well.
It's true, but hopefully your smart enough to realize that Alex wasn't the main culprit there. We had huge protection issues and penalty issues in the first half of both the philly game and the cinci game, particularly vs. cinci. When the Oline plays well, everything falls into place.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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You're missing the point though. Our run game stalled early. And when we wanted to pass because our run game was sucking, we still couldn't. It's not as simple as "Oh we're just not passing because our run game has been so great", because early that wasn't the case. We couldn't run the ball very well or pass the ball very well. Thus far, it's worked when we absolutely needed it to work at the very last moment, but that doesn't really excuse the passing game for not clicking early in a lot of our contests, keeping games close and tight.

Why not post statistics from the first half of all of our games separately? Getting off to a great day passing the ball from the get-go shouldn't be forgotten as well.
Because my point is that when we absolutely have to have it, Alex Smith has delivered. That leads me to believe that if we came out passing like we did in those situations then it would be just as successful. We did so against Tampa Bay. Smith started the game 6/7 for 92 yards and a touchdown and we scored a touchdown on two of those three possessions, the only one we didn't was when Gore fumbled deep in Tampa Bay territory.

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And like I said, a team that ranked near dead last in passing offense has maybe never won a Super Bowl.
I think maybe your expectations are too high, not to mention you seem to be under the impression that the passing game being ranked so low is mostly on Alex. We have no true #1 receiver, we lead the league in dropped passes/attempt and our offensive line is incredibly inconsistent.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:48 AM    (permalink
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To prove that when we come out passing we are successful,

1st half against Seattle
9/10, 82 yards - 16 points, 16-point lead

1st 3 drives against Dallas
10/13, 103 yards, 1 TD - 14 points, 14-point lead

1st 3 drives against Tampa Bay
6/7, 92 yards, 1 TD - 14 points, 11-point lead

Against Seattle and Dallas we took our foot off of the gas and coasted after we got leads, it worked against the Seahawks but our defense let us down against Dallas. In the games we have started slow passing the ball we finished strong, proven by the numbers I already posted.

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