San Francisco 49ers Discussion - Page 420

binary · 12-09-2011, 07:55 PM

I definitely don't want to lose Brooks. First year starting and he's played well, he's an all-around guy. I wish he wouldn't be so reliant on the outside pass rush though, he needs to develop some more moves.

VAfy-ya · 12-09-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by binary

I definitely don't want to lose Brooks. First year starting and he's played well, he's an all-around guy. I wish he wouldn't be so reliant on the outside pass rush though, he needs to develop some more moves.

That's precisely why I wouldnt be too mad if he took the money and ran. Don't get me wrong, I like Brooks alot. But I dont think he deserves top-end money.....which I think he will get on the open market. He's a good pass-rusher, not a great one. We have a potential great one waiting in the wings. There's alot of other things he does well also, but when you think about the fact we have alot of guys that could he viewed as just as important to re-sign as Brooks(Goldson, Rodgers) and your going to have to extend guys like Bowman and Iupati coming up in the here soon, you have to be willing to let some of your talent walk. The key is letting the ones walk who you feel you can most readily replace. Baalke proved himself this year, in knowing when to pay young guys coming into their primes(McDonald) and when to let others whose price was too steep walk(Baas). I'll trust him to keep making wise decisions.

binary · 12-10-2011, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

That's precisely why I wouldnt be too mad if he took the money and ran. Don't get me wrong, I like Brooks alot. But I dont think he deserves top-end money.....which I think he will get on the open market. He's a good pass-rusher, not a great one. We have a potential great one waiting in the wings. There's alot of other things he does well also, but when you think about the fact we have alot of guys that could he viewed as just as important to re-sign as Brooks(Goldson, Rodgers) and your going to have to extend guys like Bowman and Iupati coming up in the here soon, you have to be willing to let some of your talent walk. The key is letting the ones walk who you feel you can most readily replace. Baalke proved himself this year, in knowing when to pay young guys coming into their primes(McDonald) and when to let others whose price was too steep walk(Baas). I'll trust him to keep making wise decisions.

The problem is Haralson isn't good enough to be a starter. Brooks is wayy more athletic and does everything better. We would need to find a good all-around starter since Aldon is weak in coverage.

VAfy-ya · 12-10-2011, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by binary

The problem is Haralson isn't good enough to be a starter. Brooks is wayy more athletic and does everything better. We would need to find a good all-around starter since Aldon is weak in coverage.

But he is a starter for the for one of the best defenses in the league. My problem with Haralson is that he was never a good enough pass-rusher to be a 3 down player.....and he hasn't been this year. If Brooks leaves, my thinking is they will replace him with someone who will at least equal his pass-rushing, if not be a upgrade from it. Which means Haralson can resume his role as a 2 down player. And I think people have this impression that Aldon is a liability in coverage. He is no more a liability than Haralson or Brooks, physically in space. The problem has always been experience and his comort-level in dropping into coverage coming into the league and learning a new position, with no off season. It was never about ability. With a year in the system and and entire offseason to improve in that area, I think Aldon would be fine if asked to shoulder more resposibility in that regard. Enough so, to be a 3 down player. My biggest concern heading into his second year and possibly a starting role would be his ability set the edge consistently and be a force in the run game on 1st and 2nd down.

Goon61 · 12-10-2011, 03:12 PM

Did you guys see scott's mock draft?
http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-B.php

If it shaped out that way I don't think I would want Kendall Wright in the first, unless he times really well. I think he is very similar to Randall Cobb.
I think I would prefer a DL or OL, preferably Jerel Worthy if he declares and is there.

What do you guys think?

phlysac · 12-10-2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goon61

Did you guys see scott's mock draft?
http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-B.php

If it shaped out that way I don't think I would want Kendall Wright in the first, unless he times really well. I think he is very similar to Randall Cobb.
I think I would prefer a DL or OL, preferably Jerel Worthy if he declares and is there.

What do you guys think?

I don't know why people think we need front-3 help.

Justin Smith
Isaac Sopoaga
Ray McDonald

Ricky Jean Francois
Ian Williams
Demarcus Dobbs
Will Tukuafu

There's a reason it's the best run defense in the NFL. Where's the weak spot?

With FA being a big thorn, CB, WR, and Safety are likely to be the weakest positions on the team.

Sure, I'd love a top interior O-Lineman, but the team has used a TON of high draft picks on the position already and they still have Daniel Kilgore and Mike Person to fit into the mix.

binary · 12-10-2011, 05:38 PM

If we lose Brooks, we should just draft another OLB. We've seen the effect a pass rush can have on the overall D, I don't want to underestimate that value again. We can go WR or secondary in the 2nd. Pittsburgh does this too, I don't see why we shouldn't.

49erNation85 · 12-10-2011, 06:16 PM

We should trade for Mallet for a 3rd and a player? yah go!!!

Ness · 12-10-2011, 06:48 PM

I hope we don't lose Brooks. He's a well rounded player and has done a great job.

I really think the defense could use a safety in the next draft. Goldson and Whitner have done a good job, but it seems like they are essentially two strong safeties back there. Reggie Smith might be alright, but I think we could use more speed at that spot.

VAfy-ya · 12-10-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

I don't know why people think we need front-3 help.

Justin Smith
Isaac Sopoaga
Ray McDonald

Ricky Jean Francois
Ian Williams
Demarcus Dobbs
Will Tukuafu

There's a reason it's the best run defense in the NFL. Where's the weak spot?

With FA being a big thorn, CB, WR, and Safety are likely to be the weakest positions on the team.

Sure, I'd love a top interior O-Lineman, but the team has used a TON of high draft picks on the position already and they still have Daniel Kilgore and Mike Person to fit into the mix.

I agree with everything except about us being thin at CB.

Though Synder may very well end up signing elsewhere, I dont see us looking at the draft to replace him if he does leave. If Brooks leaves, we'll be VERY thin at OLB so I could see another pass-rusher. We have the potential to lose Braylon, Morgan, and Ginn. WR is defintely a need position. Though we'll be players in free agency to as well, wouldn't surprise me if went WR with the first pick.

binary · 12-10-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

I agree with everything except about us being thin at CB.

Though Synder may very well end up signing elsewhere, I dont see us looking at the draft to replace him if he does leave. If Brooks leaves, we'll be VERY thin at OLB so I could see another pass-rusher. We have the potential to lose Braylon, Morgan, and Ginn. WR is defintely a need position. Though we'll be players in free agency to as well, wouldn't surprise me if went WR with the first pick.

If we needed a WR and an OLB, we better prioritize the OLB.

Madirishman · 12-10-2011, 09:09 PM

Brooks > Haralson so I hope they cut/trade Parys and use the money to re-sign Brooks, drafting another pass rusher for depth and to eventually take over the starting role.

Madirishman · 12-10-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by binary

If we needed a WR and an OLB, we better prioritize the OLB.

Especially if it's in the first round.

phlysac · 12-10-2011, 09:43 PM

If Carlos Rogers doesn't resign, CB is TERRIBLY thin.

And of all the "positions of need", WR is VERY HEAVY in FA this coming year...

Reggie Wayne (IND)
Wes Welker (NE)
Vincent Jackson (SD)
DeSean Jackson (PHI)
Dwayne Bowe (KC)
Marques Colston (NO)
Steve Johnson (BUF)
Brandon Lloyd (STL)
Robert Meachem (NO)
Mario Manningham (NYG)
Mike Wallace (PIT) RFA
Early Doucet (ARZ)
Harry Douglas (ATL)
Eric Weems (ATL)
Roscoe Parrish (BUF)
Legedu Naanee (CAR)
Earl Bennett (CHI)
Roy Williams (CHI)
Andre Caldwell (CIN)
Jerome Simpson (CIN)
Eddie Royal (DEN)
Rashied Davis (DET)
Maurice Stovall (DET)
Bryant Johnson (HOU)
Pierre Garcon (IND)
Anthony Gonzalez (IND)
Jerheme Urban (KC)
Devin Aromashodu (MIN)
Bernard Berrian (MIN)
Greg Camarillo (MIN)
Deion Branch (NE)
Matt Slater (NE)
Domenik Hixon (NYG)
Devin Thomas (NYG)
Plaxico Burress (NYJ)
Derek Hagan (OAK)
Chaz Schilens (OAK)
Steve Smith (PHI)
Jerricho Cotchery (PIT)
Patrick Crayton (SD)
Braylon Edwards (SF)
Ted Ginn (SF)
Josh Morgan (SF)
Mike Sims-Walker (STL)
Micheal Spurlock (TB)
Donnie Avery (TEN)
Kevin Curtis (TEN)
Lavelle Hawkins (TEN)
Donte' Stallworth (WAS)
Stephen Williams (ARZ) - Exclusive Rights
Jordan Norwood (CLE) - Exclusive Rights
Jesse Holley (DAL) - Exclusive Rights
Kevin Ogletree (DAL) - RFA
Stefan Logan (DET) - RFA
Matt Willis (DEN) - RFA
Danny Amendola (STL) - RFA
Dominique Curry (STL) - Exclusive Rights
Preston Parker (TB) - Exclusive Rights

Goon61 · 12-10-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

I don't know why people think we need front-3 help.

Justin Smith
Isaac Sopoaga
Ray McDonald

Ricky Jean Francois
Ian Williams
Demarcus Dobbs
Will Tukuafu

There's a reason it's the best run defense in the NFL. Where's the weak spot?

With FA being a big thorn, CB, WR, and Safety are likely to be the weakest positions on the team.

Sure, I'd love a top interior O-Lineman, but the team has used a TON of high draft picks on the position already and they still have Daniel Kilgore and Mike Person to fit into the mix.

Well, I just think it is best to go with a player that adds the most to the team, a combination of BPA and need. Some of the DL or OL available in the mock seem like more of an upgrade than Wright over Morgan. Although I could be wrong if Wright turns into a pro-bowler. I think Worthy would be a pro bowl NT, hence an upgrade.

I could see some the the CB's being taken such as Boykin or Minnfield, but Boykin doesn't seem like a pure cover guy while I believe Minnfield struggled a lot this season. I would love to get Heyward but I'm not sure if he will have a 1st rd grade.

On a side note in my madden franchise the niners are awesome and Culliver has A potential so I was able to get by with him and Rogers for three seasons, but Rogers has degraded significantly and I am now in dire need of a corner.

phlysac · 12-10-2011, 11:40 PM

But at the same time, we can't assume (using Scott's Mock) that if he included underclassmen, that Worthy would still be available.

At this point talking about BPA is almost too far-sighted.

I tend to just look at the mocks and rationalize who I'd pick based on who's available. It's picking nits at this point.

VAfy-ya · 12-11-2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

If Carlos Rogers doesn't resign, CB is TERRIBLY thin.

And of all the "positions of need", WR is VERY HEAVY in FA this coming year...

Reggie Wayne (IND)
Wes Welker (NE)
Vincent Jackson (SD)
DeSean Jackson (PHI)
Dwayne Bowe (KC)
Marques Colston (NO)
Steve Johnson (BUF)
Brandon Lloyd (STL)
Robert Meachem (NO)
Mario Manningham (NYG)
Mike Wallace (PIT) RFA
Early Doucet (ARZ)
Harry Douglas (ATL)
Eric Weems (ATL)
Roscoe Parrish (BUF)
Legedu Naanee (CAR)
Earl Bennett (CHI)
Roy Williams (CHI)
Andre Caldwell (CIN)
Jerome Simpson (CIN)
Eddie Royal (DEN)
Rashied Davis (DET)
Maurice Stovall (DET)
Bryant Johnson (HOU)
Pierre Garcon (IND)
Anthony Gonzalez (IND)
Jerheme Urban (KC)
Devin Aromashodu (MIN)
Bernard Berrian (MIN)
Greg Camarillo (MIN)
Deion Branch (NE)
Matt Slater (NE)
Domenik Hixon (NYG)
Devin Thomas (NYG)
Plaxico Burress (NYJ)
Derek Hagan (OAK)
Chaz Schilens (OAK)
Steve Smith (PHI)
Jerricho Cotchery (PIT)
Patrick Crayton (SD)
Braylon Edwards (SF)
Ted Ginn (SF)
Josh Morgan (SF)
Mike Sims-Walker (STL)
Micheal Spurlock (TB)
Donnie Avery (TEN)
Kevin Curtis (TEN)
Lavelle Hawkins (TEN)
Donte' Stallworth (WAS)
Stephen Williams (ARZ) - Exclusive Rights
Jordan Norwood (CLE) - Exclusive Rights
Jesse Holley (DAL) - Exclusive Rights
Kevin Ogletree (DAL) - RFA
Stefan Logan (DET) - RFA
Matt Willis (DEN) - RFA
Danny Amendola (STL) - RFA
Dominique Curry (STL) - Exclusive Rights
Preston Parker (TB) - Exclusive Rights

Terribly then? If Rodgers leaves, you still have Brown, Spencer, Culliver, and Brock all under contract. And there's also Nelms from the PS, who the coaches are supposedly very high on. That isnt 'terribly' thin. Now compare that to WR or S and its not even worth mentioning. The only safeties signed through next year is Whitner and Colin Jones.....now that's 'terribly' thin.

And true, there is alot of talent at WR in free agency. Never said we wouldn't go that route but it wouldn't shock me to see a WR be the first pick. Or a uber pass-rusher we like falls into our lap. Lotta WR talent in this draft as well. I personally want Joe Adams in a Niner uni. Talk about explosive athlete. Dynamic with the ball in his hand and blazing speed. And a guy who can probably be had in the second round or later. I don't see any FS in this draft worthy of a first round selection so there isn't but so many places we can go with that first pick. But alot can happen between now and draft day.

VAfy-ya · 12-11-2011, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goon61

Well, I just think it is best to go with a player that adds the most to the team, a combination of BPA and need. Some of the DL or OL available in the mock seem like more of an upgrade than Wright over Morgan. Although I could be wrong if Wright turns into a pro-bowler. I think Worthy would be a pro bowl NT, hence an upgrade.

I could see some the the CB's being taken such as Boykin or Minnfield, but Boykin doesn't seem like a pure cover guy while I believe Minnfield struggled a lot this season. I would love to get Heyward but I'm not sure if he will have a 1st rd grade.

On a side note in my madden franchise the niners are awesome and Culliver has A potential so I was able to get by with him and Rogers for three seasons, but Rogers has degraded significantly and I am now in dire need of a corner.

Neither Boykin or Minnifield are worthy of a first round pick. And this coming from a HUGE UVA fan. Underclassmen will declare and bump them out of the first. I easily see Kilpatrick, Caliborne, and Jenkins being the top 3 guys and throw in a guy like Mark Barron as the first four secondary guys off the board.

49erNation85 · 12-11-2011, 08:33 AM

I guess no one even liked the idea of trading for Ryan Mallett . Wish we would of drafted him and he would of been a steal and good fir for our offense .

Rabscuttle · 12-11-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49erNation85

I guess no one even liked the idea of trading for Ryan Mallett . Wish we would of drafted him and he would of been a steal and good fir for our offense .

Pretty sure our front office made him one of the first scratches going by the type of players they selected. No reason to believe he's changed a lot since then.

phlysac · 12-11-2011, 08:59 AM

Agree about safety. Goldson has to be a priority.

phlysac · 12-11-2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49erNation85

I guess no one even liked the idea of trading for Ryan Mallett . Wish we would of drafted him and he would of been a steal and good fir for our offense .

good fit?

Harbaugh knows what fits his offense and he was available.

Harbaugh prefers "athletic instincts"... Mallett is far from a smooth athlete.

Rabscuttle · 12-11-2011, 09:06 AM

I haven't started getting into the draft too much at this point, but MacDonald or Leslie would be my picks at this point if they came out. I think both corner and safety need to be addressed regardless of who is resigned.

The receivers available that would improve the position for us may be pricey. What would a guy like Garcon command?

If Brooks doesn't resign, OLB is priority one. That throws the wrench into the whole mix for us as far as determining need.

VAfy-ya · 12-11-2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabscuttle

I haven't started getting into the draft too much at this point, but MacDonald or Leslie would be my picks at this point if they came out. I think both corner and safety need to be addressed regardless of who is resigned.

The receivers available that would improve the position for us may be pricey. What would a guy like Garcon command?

If Brooks doesn't resign, OLB is priority one. That throws the wrench into the whole mix for us as far as determining need.

I disagree if Brooks doesn't re-sign, OLB is the main priority. You still have Aldon, who will be a starter sooner rather than later, and Haralson. If Brooks leaves, we would have to find a stout pass-rush specialist for the nickel plackage, but not particualy a starter. But depth wise yes, we would need to add some bodies to the fold.

As far as WR, I really like abilities of Bowe and Meachem in this offense. Particulary Bowe. Under the radar guy would be Chaz Schilens. A guy with size, speed, and might thrive with a change in scenery. I want to try to get away from the smallish guys in free agency and try to find guys who could be big red-zone targets and are physical, while posessing the speed to still stretch the field. Remember they have to block to play here. Vincent Jackson would be ideal but you can't count on that guy for 16 games a year. I wouldn't even consider him honestly. Plus, he'll want a Fitzgerald type of deal.

Sidenote: Its been reported that Jim Leavitt is one of the finalist for the ASU job. Hate to lose the guy this early but if anyone can turn around that program, its Leavitt.

binary · 12-11-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

I disagree if Brooks doesn't re-sign, OLB is the main priority. You still have Aldon, who will be a starter sooner rather than later, and Haralson.

I'm sorry, but that pretty much means OLB should be the highest priority. We don't even know if Aldon will turn into an every-down player, and Haralson is weak in all areas. Haralson can't really cover, can't pass rush, is unathletic, and he's ok at playing the run. The only reason Haralson hasn't been booted is because Aldon isn't ready yet. Having those two starting would be a huge red flag. I really hope they sign Brooks.