San Francisco 49ers Discussion - Page 428

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

I'm not asking for the greatest show on turf. Just middle of the pack.

No, you want yards, yards, yards. The 49ers rank 11th in points per game. That's 5 better than the "middle of the pack" that you hope for.

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

You want to put the down and distance for each of those third downs while you are at it? Because those numbers are useless without the down and distance.

So are the 3rd down passing statistics. You never posted down and distance for those. No need to be hypocritical in attempt to argue your point.

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 05:30 PM

Just keep winning!

ViperVisor · 01-02-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

So are the 3rd down passing statistics. You never posted down and distance for those. No need to be hypocritical in attempt to argue your point.

It only is for when doing the easy thing. Crapping on Alex Smith.

When you point out Alex Smith might of been only mediocre in 2009 somewhat due to the 49ers where in 3rd and 8+ more than any team in 2009.

Alex Smith is a B/B+ level QB

There are less than 10 A-/A/A+ QB in the NFL at any time.

I'd like to have 1 for sure but hard to find.

Until then it makes more sense to me to focus on the substandard performance from the O-Line and whats left of the WRs.

Ness · 01-02-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

Atlanta? Matt Ryan ain't better than Smith.

Lots of neat stats
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/l...type=Pass ing

I know that site.

Ryan isn't better than Smith? Why? He's thrown more touchdowns and his touchdown percentage is respectably higher. 5.1 compared to 3.8. He also has around the same YPA.

Ness · 01-02-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

So are the 3rd down passing statistics. You never posted down and distance for those. No need to be hypocritical in attempt to argue your point.

Why should I have to? Look at the top 10 teams in the league in terms of converting third downs. All of those guys are thought as franchise quarterbacks by most people. Look at the bottom ten. Completely different story. Should be obvious why is why it wasn't posted.

Menardo75 · 01-02-2012, 05:42 PM

Gore is the worst short yardage runner I have ever seen so that doesn't surprise me. One of my only criticisms is that it shouldn't take all the receivers getting injured for Davis and Crabtree to be the focal points in the passing attack.

Ness · 01-02-2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

No, you want yards, yards, yards. The 49ers rank 11th in points per game. That's 5 better than the "middle of the pack" that you hope for.

That's due to good special teams putting the offense in nice field position and an opportunistic defense getting turnovers. But good special teams and good defense doesn't last as long as offenses do for years and years, unless you have rare exceptions with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

ViperVisor · 01-02-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

I know that site.

Ryan isn't better than Smith? Why? He's thrown more touchdowns and his touchdown percentage is respectably higher. 5.1 compared to 3.8. He also has around the same YPA.

Smith getting sacked at literally twice the rate has something to do with it.

Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez had something to do with it.

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

Why should I have to? Look at the top 10 teams in the league in terms of converting third downs. All of those guys are thought as franchise quarterbacks by most people. Look at the bottom ten. Completely different story. Should be obvious why is why it wasn't posted.

Because converting 3rd down doesn't illustrate how many yards the team had to get to convert. That's why.

Averaging 3 and 3 versus averaging 3 and 8 are two ENTIRELY different worlds but the conversion percentage doesn't differentiate.

Menardo75 · 01-02-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

That's due to good special teams putting the offense in nice field position and an opportunistic defense getting turnovers. But good special teams and good defense doesn't last as long as offenses do for years and years, unless you have rare exceptions with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

Once again the offense does nothing right any success they have is due to help they get from the offense and defense. Worst 13-3 team ever with arguably the best special teams of all time and a defense with the best run defense of all time.

Ness · 01-02-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

Smith getting sacked at literally twice the rate has something to do with it.

Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez had something to do with it.

What? Matt Ryan wouldn't make Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree look good? Please.

And Smith holds on to the ball way too long some times. When Matt Ryan came to the NFL the Falcons gave up 47 sacks in 2007. In Ryan's rookie year that number went down to 17. I think the Falcons offensive line had the majority of the same starters as well. I think only two were replaced. A good quarterback can get rid of the ball faster.

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

That's due to good special teams putting the offense in nice field position and an opportunistic defense getting turnovers. But good special teams and good defense doesn't last as long as offenses do for years and years, unless you have rare exceptions with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

Then just admit that "winning" isn't a priority of yours. Must be nice to simply dismiss every single positive accolade a team and/or player can have simply to isolate issues that make your point.

Ness · 01-02-2012, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Because converting 3rd down doesn't illustrate how many yards the team had to get to convert. That's why.

Averaging 3 and 3 versus averaging 3 and 8 are two ENTIRELY different worlds but the conversion percentage doesn't differentiate.

You're telling me that the bottom ten teams in converting third downs don't have issues at quarterback and it's just bad luck that they aren't converting third downs and it's also luck that the top ten teams at converting third downs all have franchise quarterbacks? You sure it's not just that those teams have quarterbacks that can consistently make plays and move the chains and the cellar-dwellers don't?

Ness · 01-02-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Then just admit that "winning" isn't a priority of yours. Must be nice to simply dismiss every single positive accolade a team and/or player can have simply to isolate issues that make your point.

Winning is important. But winning season after season is also important as well. 49ers are going to have a much harder season next year and may not have the turnover year they are having this season. Especially on the road against teams like New Orleans, New England, and Green Bay.

Ness · 01-02-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75

Once again the offense does nothing right any success they have is due to help they get from the offense and defense. Worst 13-3 team ever with arguably the best special teams of all time and a defense with the best run defense of all time.

The offense is pretty much along for the ride. 29% on third downs pretty much seals the deal in that regard. The special teams and defense are far superior. I don't think it's a stretch to say that. Which is why I'm concerned. It's an offensive league.

ViperVisor · 01-02-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

What? Matt Ryan wouldn't make Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree look good? Please.

And Smith holds on to the ball way too long some times. When Matt Ryan came to the NFL the Falcons gave up 47 sacks in 2007. In Ryan's rookie year that number went down to 17. I think the Falcons offensive line had the majority of the same starters as well. I think only two were replaced. A good quarterback can get rid of the ball faster.

Smith has made Vernon look a lot better vs Hill. I have seen a lot of Crabtree and Vernon. They are iaght.
Tony G is a HOFer.
Julio is a GD monster. I got the game on TV here in Indy when he came back to play from his injury.

Standard Sack Deviation
Alex Smith median 2.70 avg 2.9
Matt Ryan median 2.75 avg 3.0

He hold the ball less on sacks.

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

I think the Falcons offensive line had the majority of the same starters as well. I think only two were replaced. A good quarterback can get rid of the ball faster.

Only 2??? Yeah... only 40%

The QBs were Joey Harrington and Byron Leftwich. They also replaced the coordinator, head coach, and starting RB.

Clearly it was only Matt Ryan who made a difference.

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

Smith has made Vernon look a lot better vs Hill. I have seen a lot of Crabtree and Vernon. They are iaght.
Tony G is a HOFer.
Julio is a GD monster. I got the game on TV here in Indy when he came back to play from his injury.

Standard Sack Deviation
Alex Smith median 2.70 avg 2.9
Matt Ryan median 2.75 avg 3.0

He hold the ball less on sacks.

Get out of here with your facts ;)

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 08:21 PM

Very interesting snippet from Fiesta Bowl.

14 of Stanfords 20 longest passing plays were to TEs not WRs. Of the 6 plays to WRs, 4 of them were "trick plays."

Yep. Clearly the WR numbers are purely due to QB play and NOT the system.

VAfy-ya · 01-02-2012, 09:11 PM

Stop it Phlysac and Visor. Your making way too much sense and its hurting my head. Repeat after me, the offense is just along for the ride........the offense is just along for the ride.......

Borat · 01-02-2012, 09:19 PM

The offense is just along for the ride.

Wheeeee. This is fun.

dan77733 · 01-02-2012, 09:52 PM

WTF is going on here guys???

Its amazing, I used to *****, moan, groan and complain more than anyone here and now, im probably the happiest 49ers fan in this forum.

Seriously, all of you guys need to stop arguing that Smith sucks/is good/decent or whatever.

Instead, be happy that we're 13-3, have a bye and a home playoff game. Enjoy it. Its been 9 damn years and yet, instead of all us being happy and looking forward to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years, everyone here is bitching and arguing about Smith. ARGH and UGH.

Brent · 01-02-2012, 09:53 PM

When did Dan become the voice of reason?

Menardo75 · 01-02-2012, 10:09 PM

The only person complaining is Ness. He has made dealing with Dan seem like a pleasure cruise.