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Old 01-03-2012, 06:01 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
he could have easily made a completion to.
The way you word it, it's like you almost believe that Alex Smith INTENTIONALLY makes plays that you deem poor.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
The way you word it, it's like you almost believe that Alex Smith INTENTIONALLY makes plays that you deem poor.
Just saying he could have completed a pass instead of take a sack.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 01-03-2012, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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Greg Cossell talking **** again. Apparently the 49ers are pretenders. I really hate this guy.

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Perhaps just as important, Smith has thrown the fewest passes of any quarterback who has started all 16 games. And the second fewest third down passes. That’s not an accident. Jim Harbaugh recognized immediately that Smith had limitations as a passer, and those limitations had to be managed and manipulated within the overall context of his team and its strengths. Such an evaluation is the job of the head coach, and Harbaugh has made it brilliantly.
http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/01/02/c...ng-pretending/
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Greg Cossell talking **** again. Apparently the 49ers are pretenders. I really hate this guy.



http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/01/02/c...ng-pretending/
What do you feel Cosell says that you don't say regularly?


Truly not trying to argue. I'm trying to get Ness to be more confident in this team.
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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What do you feel Cosell says that you don't say regularly?


Truly not trying to argue. I'm trying to get Ness to be more confident in this team.
Well if were are talking about the Lions and 49ers comparison, that's just flat out dumb. The 49ers beat the Lions in their own stadium!

And most of my complaining about Alex Smith and such has been for the long term of this franchise year in and year out. Obviously nothing can be done about the quarterback situation now.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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What Jimbo saw was the abortion of an O-Line in the preseason.

The offense was deliberately dialed back and hope was D and ST could hold the games close and we could pound the ball for those crucial 1st downs and TDs. That was the personnel he was handed.
That happened and the offense was trying to come together with better o-line play and WR depth chart falling into place but Morgan IR and Braylon MIA really put us in trouble.

O-line also was picked on BADLY by some quality D schemes.

Other things are holding us back beyond Smith. Jim never had a 300 yard passing attack in mind to begin with. Probably 250. The reason we haven't reached that is mostly the OL and WR and how can Gore have 6 drops with only 17 catches?
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Just saying he could have completed a pass instead of take a sack.
According to whom? I like how you just assume there had to be a open receiver somewhere. Show me a open receiver running free on that play. So let's just say he does complete the pass, its probably short of the first down so what does a completed pass do that taking a sack doesn't? You just dont want him taking a sack because it looks bad to you, even though it is absolutely the right play to make at that point in time to help preserve a victory. So its all about style points with you, not playing the game to win.....got it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:36 AM    (permalink
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What Jimbo saw was the abortion of an O-Line in the preseason.

The offense was deliberately dialed back and hope was D and ST could hold the games close and we could pound the ball for those crucial 1st downs and TDs. That was the personnel he was handed.
That happened and the offense was trying to come together with better o-line play and WR depth chart falling into place but Morgan IR and Braylon MIA really put us in trouble.

O-line also was picked on BADLY by some quality D schemes.

Other things are holding us back beyond Smith. Jim never had a 300 yard passing attack in mind to begin with. Probably 250. The reason we haven't reached that is mostly the OL and WR and how can Gore have 6 drops with only 17 catches?
Excellent post. And I think Jimbaugh would like the ability to throw for over 300 yards if the game calls for it. But you will never have a Jimbaugh coached team be a very pass-happy team the way the Saints or Pats are. He very much believes in running the ball to control clock. That will never change. I doubt you'll ever see a Jimbaugh QB throw for over 450 yards in a game. That's not how he believes the game is played. Of all the WCO guys around the league he's probably the least like Walsh in that regard. He doesn't believe in passing to set-up the run.....not even. He wants a O-Line and TE personel with the ability to run agaisnt 8 in the box on a consistent basis. I think it is more important to him then finding a big play WR at this point. He wants the ability to physically dominate the LOS. He has it on defense. No where near so on offense. That's why I keep harping on the need for upgrades at Center and RG. And add 3rd TE to that as well, depending on how Byham returns from his injury. If he gets those three positions into place, you will defintely see more running for first downs in the future on 3rd and 3, 3rd and 2. Thats what he wants to do, so he can have the ability to play-action in those instances.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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Excellent post. And I think Jimbaugh would like the ability to throw for over 300 yards if the game calls for it. But you will never have a Jimbaugh coached team be a very pass-happy team the way the Saints or Pats are. He very much believes in running the ball to control clock. That will never change. I doubt you'll ever see a Jimbaugh QB throw for over 450 yards in a game. That's not how he believes the game is played. Of all the WCO guys around the league he's probably the least like Walsh in that regard. He doesn't believe in passing to set-up the run.....not even. He wants a O-Line and TE personel with the ability to run agaisnt 8 in the box on a consistent basis. I think it is more important to him then finding a big play WR at this point. He wants the ability to physically dominate the LOS. He has it on defense. No where near so on offense. That's why I keep harping on the need for upgrades at Center and RG. And add 3rd TE to that as well, depending on how Byham returns from his injury. If he gets those three positions into place, you will defintely see more running for first downs in the future on 3rd and 3, 3rd and 2. Thats what he wants to do, so he can have the ability to play-action in those instances.
So much this.

Well said Vafy
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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According to whom? I like how you just assume there had to be a open receiver somewhere. Show me a open receiver running free on that play. So let's just say he does complete the pass, its probably short of the first down so what does a completed pass do that taking a sack doesn't? You just dont want him taking a sack because it looks bad to you, even though it is absolutely the right play to make at that point in time to help preserve a victory. So its all about style points with you, not playing the game to win.....got it.
According to the game.

LOL okay well clearly you are going to believe what you want to believe or won't be satisfied with what you don't want to hear. I'll go back and freeze frame the game on the play I'm talking about.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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Here it is. Michael Crabtree was doubled on the other side. Swain was left in one on one coverage on that play. Vernon Davis was open in a zone and Smith could have darted it to him.



Instead, this is what happened:



I think I would have taken the one on one coverage with Swain or tried to dart it to Vernon Davis. Alex looked he was going to pull the trigger to Vernon, but when he got pressured he panicked and rolled to his right for a sack.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 01-04-2012, 03:32 AM    (permalink
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You can see the zone they are playing.

The play.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/st-louis-r...sack-7-yd-loss

Goodwin and Snyder got abused on the stunt. Snyder's feet end up due south 7 yards from the LOS.

They send nobody at Potty cause he is a beast.

Anthony Davis blocks nobody.

Same old. Same old.

Smith was guessing the 1 safety was gonna key on Crab and he was right.
The other safety is who he needed to manipulate. He looks to of done a decent job of playing both Vernon and Swain.

With the UTTER FAIL of the protection Smith had little chance to make a play.
Rams had 7 guys around the field patrolling.
We had pass 3 options + 1 when Dixon leaked out after a fake and delay.

An INT due to going Full Favre leaves the Rams in really good position with 3:40 and 2 Timeouts.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:39 AM    (permalink
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Alex Smith was sacked 44 times, the most times in the NFL. The 9ers also were 30th in passes attempted. Ouch.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:48 AM    (permalink
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Alex Smith was sacked 44 times, the most times in the NFL. The 9ers also were 30th in passes attempted. Ouch.
Weird breaking down the sack distributions through the weeks. The Arizona and Baltimore games were brutal to watch.

Weeks 1-3 (3 games): 11 sacks
Weeks 4-11 (7 games): 10 sacks
Weeks 12-14 (3 games): 18 sacks
Weeks 15-17 (3 games): 5 sacks
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:08 AM    (permalink
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You can see the zone they are playing.

The play.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/st-louis-r...sack-7-yd-loss

Goodwin and Snyder got abused on the stunt. Snyder's feet end up due south 7 yards from the LOS.

They send nobody at Potty cause he is a beast.

Anthony Davis blocks nobody.

Same old. Same old.

Smith was guessing the 1 safety was gonna key on Crab and he was right.
The other safety is who he needed to manipulate. He looks to of done a decent job of playing both Vernon and Swain.

With the UTTER FAIL of the protection Smith had little chance to make a play.
Rams had 7 guys around the field patrolling.
We had pass 3 options + 1 when Dixon leaked out after a fake and delay.

An INT due to going Full Favre leaves the Rams in really good position with 3:40 and 2 Timeouts.
Well Anthony Davis can't anticipate Smith's rollouts. When Smith leaves the pocket the pass protection is up in the air. Smith should have stood in the face of the rush and threw the ball. Goodwin wasn't blocking that great on the play, but not every single linemen is going to stonewall every defender on every play. Like I said earlier he was going to pull the trigger, but he hesitated and started rolling out to his right because he got scared.

The other safety was playing Vernon Davis, but he wasn't going to get to Davis in time if the ball is thrown to him accurately. Davis was still open in the zone for a completion. An accurate quarterback with good decision making makes that throw and probably completes it.

Alex doesn't have the greatest offensive line, but some of the best quarterbacks in NFL history didn't have All Pro lines year after year. And it's not like he's going through what Archie Manning did or whatever. If Alex needs everything to work for him PERFECTLY on every down, he's not going to be a good quarterback. Good quarterbacks make something out of nothing.

And if you are going to take a sack, you should probably stay in the pocket on that play. Rolling out right to try and make a play has failed for Smith 90% of the time in his career. It's just not a strong part of his game.

Hopefully next year, Alex plays better in terms of his decision making. Hopefully the line also plays better.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 01-04-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Greg Cossell talking **** again. Apparently the 49ers are pretenders. I really hate this guy.



http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/01/02/c...ng-pretending/
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And the second fewest third down passes.
And yet you want to blame Smith for the problems on third down?

As for the sack he took against the Rams you can clearly see what happened in the video. Davis was the first read and he wasn't open because the linebacker dropped back into a zone right in front of him. Smith saw that and quickly looked at Swain and Crabtree and saw that neither was open. By the time Davis cleared the linebacker and got open Smith was already running away from the pressure

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Old 01-04-2012, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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I"m happy Alex took that sack. Would've been dumb to do otherwise.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Here it is. Michael Crabtree was doubled on the other side. Swain was left in one on one coverage on that play. Vernon Davis was open in a zone and Smith could have darted it to him.



Instead, this is what happened:



I think I would have taken the one on one coverage with Swain or tried to dart it to Vernon Davis. Alex looked he was going to pull the trigger to Vernon, but when he got pressured he panicked and rolled to his right for a sack.
That's excatly what you don't do. The smart play is to take the sack. Not to try and place the ball over a dropping LB and in front of a ball-hawking safety. Your asking for something bad to happen. That's why he hesitated.....he knew it wasn't worth the gamble. That's not a routine throw. Requires the right amount of touch but has to have enough velocity to get it there quickly. If the LB gets enough depth and quickly gets a hand up, thats a batted ball up for grabs. If the safety closes quickly and meets VD just as the ball is arriving, could be another potential tipped ball or a incompletion which stops the clock. And you defintely don't throw the ball up to our 4th string WR in a one-on-one situation. Again, your asking for something bad to happen. He did the right thing. Take the sack, burn some clock. Let our defense(which is the strength of the team as you have pointed out) close it out. Maybe if we were down a score, you'd have a point but trying to preserve a lead late in the 4th quarter, you dont just toss up passes, hoping guys make plays on the ball. Every time Alex does that, it seems his receivers fail him, more often than not. So like I said.....show me a receiver running free? You can't because there wasn't one. This clearly illustrates that fact.

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Old 01-04-2012, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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This is why the NFL needs to release the all 22 film. It always feels like we are breaking down the Zapruder film with the screen shots.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Crap!!! Just read on PFT that Greg Roman is interested in the head coaching position at Penn State. This sucks.

Every time we have some continuity and consistency, it goes down the drain. Hope Roman stays with Harbaugh.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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And yet you want to blame Smith for the problems on third down?

As for the sack he took against the Rams you can clearly see what happened in the video. Davis was the first read and he wasn't open because the linebacker dropped back into a zone right in front of him. Smith saw that and quickly looked at Swain and Crabtree and saw that neither was open. By the time Davis cleared the linebacker and got open Smith was already running away from the pressure
Smith is a part of the problem on third down when they pass, yes. I don't have the numbers in front of me when he does pass on third down, but I'm willing to be they aren't that great.

Vernon Davis initially ran a post route. The linebacker wouldn't have had the leverage to make a play. And the safety dropping down was too far off and wouldn't have made it in time if Alex gunned it when he was supposed to. He was going to throw, then put his hand down because Goodwin backed into him.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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That's excatly what you don't do. The smart play is to take the sack. Not to try and place the ball over a dropping LB and in front of a ball-hawking safety. Your asking for something bad to happen. That's why he hesitated.....he knew it wasn't worth the gamble. That's not a routine throw. Requires the right amount of touch but has to have enough velocity to get it there quickly. If the LB gets enough depth and quickly gets a hand up, thats a batted ball up for grabs. If the safety closes quickly and meets VD just as the ball is arriving, could be another potential tipped ball or a incompletion which stops the clock. And you defintely don't throw the ball up to our 4th string WR in a one-on-one situation. Again, your asking for something bad to happen. He did the right thing. Take the sack, burn some clock. Let our defense(which is the strength of the team as you have pointed out) close it out. Maybe if we were down a score, you'd have a point but trying to preserve a lead late in the 4th quarter, you dont just toss up passes, hoping guys make plays on the ball. Every time Alex does that, it seems his receivers fail him, more often than not. So like I said.....show me a receiver running free? You can't because there wasn't one. This clearly illustrates that fact.
See post above.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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See post above.
So, AGAIN.....if your saying Goodwin backed into him, then your admitting that the window of opportunity to make that throw closed, correct? Which means, AGAIN there was no receiver running free that would have been a sure pitch and catch, correct? Im not trying to give you hard time Ness, honestly. I just would like to know what your defintion of "running free" is because to me it means a wide open receiver. And there were no wide open receivers on that play.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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So, AGAIN.....if your saying Goodwin backed into him, then your admitting that the window of opportunity to make that throw closed, correct? Which means, AGAIN there was no receiver running free that would have been a sure pitch and catch, correct? Im not trying to give you hard time Ness, honestly. I just would like to know what your defintion of "running free" is because to me it means a wide open receiver. And there were no wide open receivers on that play.
I disagree. I think Davis was wide open for an instant. And it looked like Smith was going to gun it to him, but then hesitated and ran right. I think he should have made the throw in the face of the rush.

Maybe he thought the defender plowing Goodwin would have knocked it down or something. That's a possibility.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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I disagree. I think Davis was wide open for an instant. And it looked like Smith was going to gun it to him, but then hesitated and ran right. I think he should have made the throw in the face of the rush.

Maybe he thought the defender plowing Goodwin would have knocked it down or something. That's a possibility.
Fair enough I guess. I have to wait and review the play later but NO, I dont want him making that throw in the face of the rush. That's what the old Alex would have done and something bad would have probably happened. Then you'd probably be in here saying Alex should have taken better care of the ball and he cost us the game with yet another bad throw. And even if Davis was open for instant, it still wasnt a safe throw IMO, which is why he hesitated. Its not like he was sitting in the zone, waving Alex down because he was uncovered.
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