San Francisco 49ers Discussion - Page 470

dan77733 · 03-15-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justone2

Its more the way you act like the only way to go is your way which simply isn't the only way. Offcourse a top tier WR would be a great addition but when those guys are wanting too much money or you have to give up your first people get hesitant. Thats why you get people going against you because you keep telling the only way to succes would be to sign Wallace and Allen and then trade up for Fleener. Its good to have an opinion but you have to respect that everyone here has an opinion and not going to say that they aren't real Niners because they don't see it the way you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromforgotten

I'm a Mike Wallace fan and would have gladly given up the 30th pick for him Dan. I'm not gonna ***** and moan about it if they don't get him though. If you want to question some of the FA and draft moves that our past HC's and GM's have made I can understand that. All I'm saying is that give Baalke and Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt for now. Stop screaming the sky is falling over and over. Or you can keep screaming it, I shouldn't tell you what to do. Lol. It just seems a little silly to me. I'm excited about the present and the future of our organization with the hands that it is in now.

Okay okay. Fair enough guys and I guess I'll just have to wait and see what else they do.

YAYareaRB · 03-15-2012, 05:01 PM

Randy Moss is not done. Mark my words

RaiderNation · 03-15-2012, 05:10 PM

With the recent signing of Moss and Cox and resigning Rodgers, what do you guys think is the likely position you guys go for at 30? Would a OG like Kevin Zeitler make sense?

Justone2 · 03-15-2012, 05:18 PM

WR and else it could be guard or D-line i guess but it could easily just BPA because none of them will get you an inmediate starter problably. Guard is the thing we have Kilgore who we traded up for and had a year to learn and can be fixed with an experience guy. So possibly a WR like Kendall Wright or Stephen Hill, a D-lineman or just BPA since there are no pressing needs who will get fixed from day one.

VAfy-ya · 03-15-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderNation

With the recent signing of Moss and Cox and resigning Rodgers, what do you guys think is the likely position you guys go for at 30? Would a OG like Kevin Zeitler make sense?

WR, WR, WR......and did I mention WR. Just dont see Baalke drafting a OG in the back of the first. Especially if Kendall Wright falls like I think. Dont see Hill making it to 30. Already adjusting my thinking so I won't be disappointed when it happens. I hope I am dead wrong but I'd be shocked if he made it out of the top 20. Especially seeing the market for WRs in free agency. So the new question is does anyone see Baalke trading up to grab Hill? Or does he stand pat and maybe even trying to trade out of 30 if all the WRs he likes in the first are gone?

Justone2 · 03-15-2012, 05:30 PM

Well the funny thing with Hill is that he valued so different by most. But if Baalke really likes/wants him he could easily shake out a trade. Showed he isn't affraid for big moves and can easily see him do it. If we miss out on Hill i could also see us trading back. Offcourse we need WR but when the right guy isn't there i am not suprised if we picked something else.

YAYareaRB · 03-15-2012, 06:09 PM

How has Kilgore been doing? From all the reports I read on Zeitler, hes ready to roll from day 1 as the starter for any team.

dan77733 · 03-15-2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYareaRB

Randy Moss is not done. Mark my words

Care to make a wager on that?

Draft wise, I would be surprised if its an OG unless DeCastro falls but thats not going to happen so im thinking TE Fleener or WR Hill if either one of them are there.

OG wise, im hoping the team signs Jake Scott because I dont like the idea of having a young RG next to 22 year old RT Anthony Davis who's still developing and getting better. I want a veteran next to him but no, please Lord, no Leonard Davis.

edgrenade · 03-15-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderNation

With the recent signing of Moss and Cox and resigning Rodgers, what do you guys think is the likely position you guys go for at 30? Would a OG like Kevin Zeitler make sense?

I still think that WR, CB, and HB could be possibilities at 30. They've, never been one to draft CBs high though...

If Martin or Miller is there, they have to take him.

Same goes for Hill; he just exudes 49er.

Ness · 03-15-2012, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

True but I dont like the fact that they think going cheap is going to work two years in a row. Especially considering the cheap guys they signed (Moss and Cox). Going "cheap" year after year will eventually have the same affect as going after the top tier guys year after year.

And everyone here keeps making it out like I wanted them to go nuts in FA. For the first time in years, I only wanted ONE top tier guy and one second tier guy. How is that bad? Especially when the top tier guy is a huge upgrade and adds the element the offense needs most while the second tier guy would have replaced Rogers at a younger, cheaper and just as good price?

Whats so bad about that?

Who was the last big name free agent receiver that worked out for a team? I can think of a lot that didn't work out. Notice how teams like Green Bay and Pittsburgh and even New England rarely go after those big name kind of guys, yet always compete season after season and have good receivers. They don't make blockbuster trades and give up valuable draft picks. They either find their megastars through the draft or find a huge bargain (Randy Moss trade a few years back).

edgrenade · 03-15-2012, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

Who was the last big name free agent receiver that worked out for a team? I can think of a lot that didn't work out. Notice how teams like Green Bay and Pittsburgh and even New England rarely go after those big name kind of guys, yet always compete season after season and have good receivers. They don't make blockbuster trades and give up valuable draft picks. They either find their megastars through the draft or find a huge bargain (Randy Moss trade a few years back).

I agree 100%, BUT they all have elite QBs.

Just putting that out there....

dan77733 · 03-15-2012, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgrenade

I agree 100%, BUT they all have elite QBs.

Just putting that out there....

Exactly and beat me to it.

Ness · 03-15-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgrenade

I agree 100%, BUT they all have elite QBs.

Just putting that out there....

That doesn't really change anything. That means you should focus on your quarterback position more so than your wide receivers then. Chicago would be a good case of a team needing a good receiver and needing to improve their overall receiving corps because they actually have an established quarterback.

San Francisco on the other hand would just be wasting a ton of money chasing after a big name receiver like Mike Wallace. Nothing matters if the guy throwing the ball isn't that great. I don't see any receiver making Alex Smith magically better. He'll have to improve on his own.

At the same time it doesn't mean we should stick with scrubs, but what the 49ers are doing is upgrading their group without having to go for that elite superstar, who probably wouldn't live up to his contract anyways. Guys like Moss, Lloyd, Manningham, and Schilens are all capatable of getting open against defenses a good amount of the time.

dan77733 · 03-16-2012, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

That doesn't really change anything. That means you should focus on your quarterback position more so than your wide receivers then. Chicago would be a good case of a team needing a good receiver and needing to improve their overall receiving corps because they actually have an established quarterback.

San Francisco on the other hand would just be wasting a ton of money chasing after a big name receiver like Mike Wallace. Nothing matters if the guy throwing the ball isn't that great. I don't see any receiver making Alex Smith magically better. He'll have to improve on his own.

At the same time it doesn't mean we should stick with scrubs, but what the 49ers are doing is upgrading their group without having to go for that elite superstar, who probably wouldn't live up to his contract anyways. Guys like Moss, Lloyd, Manningham, and Schilens are all capatable of getting open against defenses a good amount of the time.

I know you hate Smith but you dont think a top tier WR like Wallace would help him improve and get better? Seriously, add a speed receiver who's actually good and maybe the other receivers would get more than 1 catch for 3 yards in a playoff game because with the speed guy spreading out the defense, the other receivers would have more space and room which would allow Smith to take more chances than he did but when everyone is bunched together in a span of 20 yards, I would be throwing the ball away too. Smith improved a lot in 2006 not only because of Turner but because he had Antonio Bryant so dont say a top tier WR wouldnt help because it will.

Sooo......you think an injury prone WR (Schillens), a 35 year old washed up guy who hasnt played in two years (Moss), a 31 year old who's basically a possession receiver and barely gets yards after the catch (Lloyd) and a receiver who did worse in 2011 than he did in 2010 when he should have done better since there were TWO receivers better than him are going to help Smith by getting open and making plays? I cant wait to see that but whatever, should be fun to watch the 49ers in 2012.

hawkeye123 · 03-16-2012, 02:19 AM

We're still 18m under the cap

Borat · 03-16-2012, 02:37 AM

We can totally get 1.8 Mike Wallaces.

Ness · 03-16-2012, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

I know you hate Smith but you dont think a top tier WR like Wallace would help him improve and get better? Seriously, add a speed receiver who's actually good and maybe the other receivers would get more than 1 catch for 3 yards in a playoff game because with the speed guy spreading out the defense, the other receivers would have more space and room which would allow Smith to take more chances than he did but when everyone is bunched together in a span of 20 yards, I would be throwing the ball away too. Smith improved a lot in 2006 not only because of Turner but because he had Antonio Bryant so dont say a top tier WR wouldnt help because it will.

Sooo......you think an injury prone WR (Schillens), a 35 year old washed up guy who hasnt played in two years (Moss), a 31 year old who's basically a possession receiver and barely gets yards after the catch (Lloyd) and a receiver who did worse in 2011 than he did in 2010 when he should have done better since there were TWO receivers better than him are going to help Smith by getting open and making plays? I cant wait to see that but whatever, should be fun to watch the 49ers in 2012.

I think a good quarterback makes everyone else on the offense better. The blocking improves, receivers not getting much separation hardly matters because the quarterback can "throw them open", the run game opens because of the efficiency of the passing attack, etc.

Sure having a guy like Wallace or whatever would help, but if Wallace gets hurt then what are you going to do? You don't build around a receiver. You build around a quarterback. Until you have that guy, it doesn't really matter what else you do offense. You can only go so far. At least in my opinion. As for Lloyd, Moss, Manningham, Schililens or whatever...they'd arguably be as good if not better than our startup opening day last year.

Really, the only receiver we had on the roster that had the potential to make good plays and get separation was Josh Morgan. Crabtree is a poor man's Keyshawn Johnson and nothing special. He just happened to be the best guy we have on the roster right now which isn't saying much. Ginn isn't very well rounded. Edwards sucked period. And everyone else was borderline awful except for Kyle Williams who is still a 3rd option at best. It was really sad watching the Giants in the NFC Championship game seeing Manningham as their third receiver and he would have easily been our number one here.

Madirishman · 03-16-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat

We can totally get 1.8 Mike Wallaces.

That will work Borat!

dan77733 · 03-16-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

I think a good quarterback makes everyone else on the offense better. The blocking improves, receivers not getting much separation hardly matters because the quarterback can "throw them open", the run game opens because of the efficiency of the passing attack, etc.

Sure having a guy like Wallace or whatever would help, but if Wallace gets hurt then what are you going to do? You don't build around a receiver. You build around a quarterback. Until you have that guy, it doesn't really matter what else you do offense. You can only go so far. At least in my opinion. As for Lloyd, Moss, Manningham, Schililens or whatever...they'd arguably be as good if not better than our startup opening day last year.

Really, the only receiver we had on the roster that had the potential to make good plays and get separation was Josh Morgan. Crabtree is a poor man's Keyshawn Johnson and nothing special. He just happened to be the best guy we have on the roster right now which isn't saying much. Ginn isn't very well rounded. Edwards sucked period. And everyone else was borderline awful except for Kyle Williams who is still a 3rd option at best. It was really sad watching the Giants in the NFC Championship game seeing Manningham as their third receiver and he would have easily been our number one here.

I agree with you in regards to QB and while Smith will never ever be a Montana/Young type, I do think that he can be as good or better than Garcia but like Garcia, he needs a top tier WR to help him get there. He's never going to improve by having average or old washed up receivers around him. Look at McNabb in his Eagles career. His best season of his career period was in 2004 with Owens. You really think that NOT having a top tier WR doesnt help the QB get better? As for now, look at the Patriots, they have Welker but they dont have that dominant outside receiver like they did with Moss years ago and you dont think that hurts Brady? While you need a good QB, the QB needs a top tier WR so he can be good and get better. I never said to build around a WR but having a top tier like Wallace can only help Smith get better. Moss and these other guys aint helping him and you know it. They might he make things worse for him if they act up. A guy like Wallace is not only for the present and Smith but also for the future and Kaepernick.

As for our WR core now, its so far just Moss, Crabtree and Williams. Schillens isnt going to help us whatsoever. Lloyd is like Moss, a one year stopgap who could start acting up at any time. Manningham would be the next best option but I dont see him signing with us. Adding a Wallace would have strengthen our entire WR core because it lowers Crabtree and Williams on the depth chart from number one and two to two and three which makes those spots stronger. But thats just how I see it.

Crabtree is a possession WR. Morgan wasnt bad but he's not a number one WR. He's another number two. No defense is fearing or gameplanning around these guys and you know it. Williams is best suited for the slot. Ginn is a returner period as he cant catch worth a damn which makes his speed as a WR useless. Swain/Hastings are well crap.

If Moss works out, great but if he doesnt, will anyone here really be surprised? I wont be. In fact, im expecting that to happen. Just a matter of time. And in a year from now, we'll be in the same exact position but everyone is a year older and we'll still be looking for a top tier number one WR. Either way, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Borat · 03-16-2012, 01:36 PM

Barrows is on ESPN right now saying SF is a sleeper for Manning. It could be legit. It could be a bluff to get Alex to sign a better deal for the team. He also said Alex would likely end up in Seattle if Manning signs with the Niners.

49erNation85 · 03-16-2012, 01:36 PM

Espn reports we are now in the hunt for Manning ! I knew it ! Do it sf please god just do it ! He worked out for us this week . Manning to moss = some dam good sexual type emoitions for us fans and a much better run for the super bowl again . For get Smith!!!!

Ness · 03-16-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat

Barrows is on ESPN right now saying SF is a sleeper for Manning. It could be legit. It could be a bluff to get Alex to sign a better deal for the team. He also said Alex would likely end up in Seattle if Manning signs with the Niners.

As cool as this sounds, I think this is just a smokescreen. How in the world with all of the investigating, did Manning and the 49ers gather together to have a workout on Tuesday? Especially with reporters going to ridiculous amount of lengths to investigate where Peyton was going to take a dump practically.

Rabscuttle · 03-16-2012, 02:30 PM

Manning and a decent receiver would make the offense scary. Gore would have a new lease on life aaaaaaaaaannnnnnndddd I really don't see this happening with such a safe approach to the salary cap.

WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? · 03-16-2012, 02:38 PM

Holy sh*t!!!!! I was against Manning until the 49ers had at least seen him throw. With the new news I am all on board.

dan77733 · 03-16-2012, 02:52 PM

49ers saw him throw on Tuesday and he's taking a physical with the team today from what I have read. I'm surprised on one hand but not on the other because once they signed Moss and Smith still wasnt signed, you knew something was up, just didnt know what. The sad part is that if they dont sign Manning and Smith goes to SEA and Flynn goes to MIA, we're ******!!! And God forbid, Manning goes to DEN and we trade for Tebow!!! I will be even more pissed off than I was on Monday.

With all that said, I would be happy and sad at the same time because while it could work out great, the potential is still there to be a cluster****.