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Old 03-19-2012, 11:04 PM    (permalink
thediggler3030
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
I hope so bud because for the first time in a decade, the 49ers were actually fun and exciting to watch and hell, I had no problem spending the $300+ on NFL ST for PS3 so I could watch all their games.

I understand about upgrading QB from Smith but the one thing that no one seems to realize that maybe, just maybe if Harbaugh actually lets Smith play instead of chaining him down, he might surprise everyone but no one will ever know if he's not given the chance.

Its funny that half the league wanted Manning but he went to the team who needed a QB and had the most cap room. Manning held the Colts hostage not once but TWICE so did anyone really think he was to SF for less money? Yeah right. Wants to win championships my ass. Good luck in DEN because he'll need it.

My main problem with the 49ers off-season thus far is that they didnt need or have to act like they were desperate (which is exactly how they were acting) at all. Team is young and talented from top to bottom with only one major need which still hasnt been solved in my opinion and thats it. Quite honestly, I just dont see the point in what they have done this off-season thus far. They added a POS in Cox at CB to return kicks/punts because they dont want to pay Ginn, they added a 35 year old WR who what they think is going to make a difference? Yeah, good luck with that. Manningham is a second tier WR at best. Them re-signing Brooks has been my favorite move and the only one I havent disliked for various reasons.

But again, to each his own. All I know is that I hope them going after Manning doesnt screw up everything that Baalke and especially Harbaugh built in the last year.
I dunno man, I think you're looking at things in a negative light.

They returned all the starters for one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen.

They have a more talented WR core. I would take Moss and Manningham over Edwards and Morgan.

Outside of RG, I don't see a single position that they are not better at, since the team is so young, an extra year of experience alone in an upgrade.

They also have very few holes to fill coming into the draft. This is the first draft in a long time that I cannot ID a position where they need an immediate starter. Anyone they draft in the first round will most likely sit for a year. I expect an RG or WR in round one. If its WR, I expect them to draft someone with huge upside like Hill or Randle. So I think the WR core could be pretty badass.

Don't get upset yet, last year was frustrating at first as well, but the moves ended up being low risk and thought out.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by thediggler3030 View Post
I dunno man, I think you're looking at things in a negative light.

They returned all the starters for one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen.

They have a more talented WR core. I would take Moss and Manningham over Edwards and Morgan.

Outside of RG, I don't see a single position that they are not better at, since the team is so young, an extra year of experience alone in an upgrade.

They also have very few holes to fill coming into the draft. This is the first draft in a long time that I cannot ID a position where they need an immediate starter. Anyone they draft in the first round will most likely sit for a year. I expect an RG or WR in round one. If its WR, I expect them to draft someone with huge upside like Hill or Randle. So I think the WR core could be pretty badass.

Don't get upset yet, last year was frustrating at first as well, but the moves ended up being low risk and thought out.
Save it. You can't talk sense to him. If the team doesn't follow his unrealistic plan, then he just cries and bad-mouths everything they did/ tried to do.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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I dunno man, I think you're looking at things in a negative light.

They returned all the starters for one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen.

They have a more talented WR core. I would take Moss and Manningham over Edwards and Morgan.

Outside of RG, I don't see a single position that they are not better at, since the team is so young, an extra year of experience alone in an upgrade.

They also have very few holes to fill coming into the draft. This is the first draft in a long time that I cannot ID a position where they need an immediate starter. Anyone they draft in the first round will most likely sit for a year. I expect an RG or WR in round one. If its WR, I expect them to draft someone with huge upside like Hill or Randle. So I think the WR core could be pretty badass.

Don't get upset yet, last year was frustrating at first as well, but the moves ended up being low risk and thought out.
True but I dont think that Rogers will match in 2012 what he did in 2011 and would have preferred Marshall or Allen. With our front seven and safeties, letting Rogers go wouldnt have hurt as much as people think.

I'll be surprised if Moss even makes it through the season. Manningham is an upgrade over Morgan but at the same time, he had a better 2010 season than 2011 which is weird because with Cruz breaking out, you would think that would be the opposite.

RG is the only position that needs a starter. I just hope it doesnt turn out to be Leonard Davis. UGH.

And true, I agree with you about the draft. I'm hoping for Fleener or Hill at 30 or a top OG but I think all three will be gone by 30.

And again, true and I agree. Okay, okay. I should calm myself down. Being so close to winning a SB and yet so far...gets to me every once in a while. Its been so long that the 49ers were damn good to great that I just dont want to see them screw it up.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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Save it. You can't talk sense to him. If the team doesn't follow his unrealistic plan, then he just cries and bad-mouths everything they did/ tried to do.
Yep, thats true. My plan is always unrealistic and never makes sense but signing Moss and thinking that the WR position is solved sure does. Good luck with that bud.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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True but I dont think that Rogers will match in 2012 what he did in 2011 and would have preferred Marshall or Allen. With our front seven and safeties, letting Rogers go wouldnt have hurt as much as people think.

I'll be surprised if Moss even makes it through the season. Manningham is an upgrade over Morgan but at the same time, he had a better 2010 season than 2011 which is weird because with Cruz breaking out, you would think that would be the opposite.

RG is the only position that needs a starter. I just hope it doesnt turn out to be Leonard Davis. UGH.

And true, I agree with you about the draft. I'm hoping for Fleener or Hill at 30 or a top OG but I think all three will be gone by 30.

And again, true and I agree. Okay, okay. I should calm myself down. Being so close to winning a SB and yet so far...gets to me every once in a while. Its been so long that the 49ers were damn good to great that I just dont want to see them screw it up.
I actually agree with you about Rodgers. I would have been fine with him leaving, especially after the NFC Championship game. But I think we both need to admit that Baalke and co have a better idea of his importance than we do.

If Moss doesn't make it through, then oh well. I never buy the locker room cancer ruining a team. I think that's a copout from already weak locker rooms. Worst case scenario is that they finally have a decent redzone option and replace Ginn as their deep threat. Manningham's deal doesn't sound huge. I would be upset if they give him 7 mil a year, but I like him and Moss signed as a duo as I think they will be able to be more creative with Crabtree. Manningham was injured for large stretches of last year, he was on my fantasy team lol.

I would be a tad disappointed if they drafted Fleener. I just don't see the need or the value there. I would be PUMPED if they got Hill and also would like Zeitler. I also would love if they moved up for Wright or Decastro.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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I dunno man, I think you're looking at things in a negative light.

They returned all the starters for one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen.

They have a more talented WR core. I would take Moss and Manningham over Edwards and Morgan.

Outside of RG, I don't see a single position that they are not better at, since the team is so young, an extra year of experience alone in an upgrade.

They also have very few holes to fill coming into the draft. This is the first draft in a long time that I cannot ID a position where they need an immediate starter. Anyone they draft in the first round will most likely sit for a year. I expect an RG or WR in round one. If its WR, I expect them to draft someone with huge upside like Hill or Randle. So I think the WR core could be pretty badass.

Don't get upset yet, last year was frustrating at first as well, but the moves ended up being low risk and thought out.
This. It's intriguing to realize that the only assumed starter to not be replaced was Adam Snyder, and he was arguably the weakest starter of the 22.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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Yep, thats true. My plan is always unrealistic and never makes sense but signing Moss and thinking that the WR position is solved sure does. Good luck with that bud.
How did they think the WR position was "solved" after the Moss signing? I'm pretty sure they added Mario Manningham (yep they did) and will likely add another WR highly in the draft.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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Alright Y'all lets trade for Tebow? I'm down for that .. I'm so bummed about Manning
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Alright Y'all lets trade for Tebow? I'm down for that .. I'm so bummed about Manning
Nah, no need. Bruce Miller played well last season, I'm expecting him to progress.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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Alright Y'all lets trade for Tebow? I'm down for that .. I'm so bummed about Manning
Ya'll don't come back to the forum with that nonsense, ya hear?!
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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Alright Y'all lets trade for Tebow? I'm down for that .. I'm so bummed about Manning
I think we are looking to add a blocking TE aren't we?
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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I actually agree with you about Rodgers. I would have been fine with him leaving, especially after the NFC Championship game. But I think we both need to admit that Baalke and co have a better idea of his importance than we do.

If Moss doesn't make it through, then oh well. I never buy the locker room cancer ruining a team. I think that's a copout from already weak locker rooms. Worst case scenario is that they finally have a decent redzone option and replace Ginn as their deep threat. Manningham's deal doesn't sound huge. I would be upset if they give him 7 mil a year, but I like him and Moss signed as a duo as I think they will be able to be more creative with Crabtree. Manningham was injured for large stretches of last year, he was on my fantasy team lol.

I would be a tad disappointed if they drafted Fleener. I just don't see the need or the value there. I would be PUMPED if they got Hill and also would like Zeitler. I also would love if they moved up for Wright or Decastro.
Thats true. Obviously Baalke knows more than we do about Rogers. My main reason for letting him leave would have been because he's going to be 31 where as Marshall is 27 and Allen is 29 and respectively, they're four and two years younger and can play on the outside, slot in nickel and at safety plus both signed for cheaper with MIA and CIN. Also, the extra $10m or so would have been used towards Wallace. See.....how it all evens out with an upgrade at the most needed position?

Being a T.O. fan, I agree about any one player being a locker room cancer. The locker room either has problems or it doesnt. My biggest concern with Moss is that with the 49ers offense being running based, I dont think that it would take long for him to act up and eventually get released. And with Manningham, he's only signed for two years. Both signings to me are stopgaps and I dont think either one are going to push Crabtree to get better. Everyone knows I wanted Wallace but it wasnt just because he adds the element the team needs the most on offense but also because he's young, will be here for the short term (Smith) and long term (Kaepernick) and will push Crabtree to be better while at the same time, is a team guy and adding him automatically makes our entire WR core (1-3) stronger than its been in a decade. To me, the signings of Moss and to a lesser extent Manningham could just be one year stopgaps and we could be in the same situation a year from now. My plan eliminated that potential problem short and long term.

As for the Draft, I think DeCastro, Zeitler, Fleener and Hill will all be long gone by 30. Main reasons I want Fleener is because he'll add that Jimmy Graham type weapon to the offense, already knows the offense Harbaugh runs and would make the transition easier than a rookie WR. Also, since he would be the second TE, the pressure to perform right away being a first rounder and all wouldnt be there as much as it would be for a WR. Another reason is that Delanie Walker is an UFA in a year from now and unless he declines badly in 2012, he'll get more money and a starting spot somewhere. Drafting Fleener in the first round allows him to be signed for five years and give the team the ability to trade Walker instead of letting him leave for free. At the same time, the type of weapon Fleener would add makes him more valuable than Walker especially in a passing league. And regardless of what happens with Moss and Manningham in a year from now, Fleener would be here for the next half decade.

With Snyder in ARZ, I see Baalke/Harbaugh moving up for an OG if one falls into the 20's but we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

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How did they think the WR position was "solved" after the Moss signing? I'm pretty sure they added Mario Manningham (yep they did) and will likely add another WR highly in the draft.
Sorry, I should have been more clearer. I meant Moss and Manningham. Drafting a WR at 30 (or where ever) isnt going to help right away. Its going to take that guy time to develop and learn. Add in that there's four receivers ahead of the rookie and well, that rookie becomes a long term project barring injuries, Moss acting up etc.

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Alright Y'all lets trade for Tebow? I'm down for that .. I'm so bummed about Manning
If the 49ers were to acquire Tebow, I would quit being a 49ers fan.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:34 AM    (permalink
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Dan you should just put FA and draft wants in your sig. Than it would save you from having to type these paragraphs, lol.
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:01 AM    (permalink
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Add in that there's four receivers ahead of the rookie and well, that rookie becomes a long term project barring injuries, Moss acting up etc.
Not a long term project, but more of a short term one for any WR drafted early.

Randy Moss's contract is only for one year. Manningham has two. If Moss doesn't execute and the staff think the drafted WR is better, Moss isn't coming back. Likewise for Manningham.

It's not like Moss and Manningham were signed to 5 year contracts.

Seems like Harbaugh is bringing some of the NCAA to the NFL. Take solid players to fill the gap, and redshirt some players from the draft/recruiting class to give them time to develop. Once they are ready, bump the starter off the roster.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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RED ALERT, RED ALERT:
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@AdamSchefter Three teams to monitor as trade talks for Tim Tebow pick up: Jacksonville, Green Bay, San Francisco.
49ers do need another RB.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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And Jimbaugh and Roman like them some trickery and stuff.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:25 AM    (permalink
Madirishman
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I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

I could see them converting him to a MLB to replace Grant or a TE to compete with Byham for a roster spot.

Or my favorite idea; making it the "Timmy Montana Squad" with Tebow replacing Costanzo, hustling down on special teams to make tackles in the open field.

What do you guys think?
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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I say make him an hybrid and play him everywhere but QB:P
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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HA hell yes do it SF! But come on guys Tebow would be a much more better QB then Smith and fill the stands. Tebow is the mobile QB he is looking for with speed and power. I don't switching positions is what on Tebow mind but awesome we are looking at the trade offer.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
Being a T.O. fan, I agree about any one player being a locker room cancer. The locker room either has problems or it doesnt. My biggest concern with Moss is that with the 49ers offense being running based, I dont think that it would take long for him to act up and eventually get released. And with Manningham, he's only signed for two years. Both signings to me are stopgaps and I dont think either one are going to push Crabtree to get better. Everyone knows I wanted Wallace but it wasnt just because he adds the element the team needs the most on offense but also because he's young, will be here for the short term (Smith) and long term (Kaepernick) and will push Crabtree to be better while at the same time, is a team guy and adding him automatically makes our entire WR core (1-3) stronger than its been in a decade. To me, the signings of Moss and to a lesser extent Manningham could just be one year stopgaps and we could be in the same situation a year from now. My plan eliminated that potential problem short and long term.
I think the issue here is that you don't like the "build through the draft philosophy." To me that means that, of course, the team will sign some FA's, but none of them will be considered longterm building blocks like Jonas Jennings, Nate Clements and Justin Smith were.

A true build through the draft philosophy only signs stopgap starters (Moss and Manningham) and utilizes them to produce for short periods of time while high upside draft picks develop (Hill or Randle) into starters.

Remember how painful it was to watch the Niners cut Jeff Garcia and let Julian Peterson and Andre Carter go? That was the result of a Free Agent based strategy. Another example is Washington and the NFL smackdown that was their offseason.

The last reason I like the build through the draft philosophy is that it spreads our investments out. If we invested a lot of money in one player and they didn't pan out (there are no sure things), then the damage would be immense (SF Giants fans know what I'm talking about here... **** you Zito and Rowand). But signing a number of middle of the road FA's gives you an opportunity to see if players really are legit and then resign them to larger deals if they are (Rodgers and Brooks).

I know its less exciting, but I think this strategy takes a lot of discipline and in the long term is more successful.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:20 AM    (permalink
Madirishman
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HA hell yes do it SF! But come on guys Tebow would be a much more better QB then Smith and fill the stands. Tebow is the mobile QB he is looking for with speed and power. I don't switching positions is what on Tebow mind but awesome we are looking at the trade offer.
WTF? Do you own the Dolphins or did you just buy the Jaguars? The Niners (who announced last week that 2012 Season Tickets are sold out) don't need to "fill the stands." They need a 6th Lombardi trophy, and then another.

As if it needs to be said for a QB comparison: Alex > Tebow

We don't need the circus or his cult-like following in SF. He can go home to Florida.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Dan you should just put FA and draft wants in your sig. Than it would save you from having to type these paragraphs, lol.
True but it wouldnt explain why I wanted or want those players.

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Not a long term project, but more of a short term one for any WR drafted early.

Randy Moss's contract is only for one year. Manningham has two. If Moss doesn't execute and the staff think the drafted WR is better, Moss isn't coming back. Likewise for Manningham.

It's not like Moss and Manningham were signed to 5 year contracts.

Seems like Harbaugh is bringing some of the NCAA to the NFL. Take solid players to fill the gap, and redshirt some players from the draft/recruiting class to give them time to develop. Once they are ready, bump the starter off the roster.
I understand what you're saying but here's the thing - if Moss/Manningham dont work out and by the time the rookie WR develops, we'll still be in the same situation that we were in this past season. In other words, nothing is being solved right now and yeah, Wallace > Moss/Manningham easily.

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HA hell yes do it SF! But come on guys Tebow would be a much more better QB then Smith and fill the stands. Tebow is the mobile QB he is looking for with speed and power. I don't switching positions is what on Tebow mind but awesome we are looking at the trade offer.
**** NO!!! If we acquire Tebow, everyone else here can rejoice because they will never ever see me post again since I would no longer be a 49ers fan.

P.S. - Tebow SUCKS!!!
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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**** NO!!! If we acquire Tebow, everyone else here can rejoice because they will never ever see me post again since I would no longer be a 49ers fan.
Can we all hold you to this post Dan?I'm sure you couldn't resist on posting or being a 49er fan even if we sign Tebow I doubt it though we couldn't even sign Manning lol.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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I think the issue here is that you don't like the "build through the draft philosophy." To me that means that, of course, the team will sign some FA's, but none of them will be considered longterm building blocks like Jonas Jennings, Nate Clements and Justin Smith were.

A true build through the draft philosophy only signs stopgap starters (Moss and Manningham) and utilizes them to produce for short periods of time while high upside draft picks develop (Hill or Randle) into starters.

Remember how painful it was to watch the Niners cut Jeff Garcia and let Julian Peterson and Andre Carter go? That was the result of a Free Agent based strategy. Another example is Washington and the NFL smackdown that was their offseason.

The last reason I like the build through the draft philosophy is that it spreads our investments out. If we invested a lot of money in one player and they didn't pan out (there are no sure things), then the damage would be immense (SF Giants fans know what I'm talking about here... **** you Zito and Rowand). But signing a number of middle of the road FA's gives you an opportunity to see if players really are legit and then resign them to larger deals if they are (Rodgers and Brooks).

I know its less exciting, but I think this strategy takes a lot of discipline and in the long term is more successful.
Its not that I dont like to build through the Draft, its that after NINE years, we've already done that and only needed to add a playmaking top tier WR via FA and yeah, I know the cost would have been high and a huge risk but so is every rookie drafted and unlike Wallace, no rookie WR would come in and make the kind of impact or have the experience or already be established like Wallace would have been. The extra money that went to Rogers, Moss and Manningham could have went to Wallace and Marshall/Allen which would have been in my opinion a true upgrade at WR, a younger solid replacement for Rogers and still have cap room left over.

To me, adding a playmaking WR was the only position that in my opinion was a major need. Even after adding Moss and Manningham, I still see it as a need but not major even though I wouldnt be surprised if in a year from now, we're having the exact same conversation. You build through the draft to develop your core but when you need one or two last pieces that would complete the core, you get them via FA because they're already established and experienced.

It sucked seeing Peterson and Carter leave but since we were switching to a 3-4, there was no sense to keeping them and thats one thing I hated with Nolan....instead of building around what you have....he changed every damn thing and ended up screwing over the franchise for the next decade or so. Peterson and Carter did great for SEA and WSH because they played in their best position and they excelled at that position.

As for the Redskins now, going nuts in FA rarely works for them if at all but I give them credit for being gutsy and having the balls to take chances on FA's. The difference between them and me is simple - after having an awesome 13-3 season with only ONE major glaring weakness and need, that would have been the only major move in FA that I would have done. I only wanted the team to go nuts in years past because we sucked and werent improving through the draft like everyone thinks we were. The 2010 and 2011 drafts is what helped us the most followed by 2007 but all the rest were a guy here and there or sucked since 2004 so while people say build through the draft, its not as easy or as quick as others make it out to be. From my standpoint, we only needed a franchise WR and a second tier CB to replace Rogers. After them, re-sign the majority of our own FA's and call it a day until the Draft.

Back to the Redskins, I dont care about them or the Cowboys but the NFL screwed them over BIG TIME. And if I was them, i would sue or quite honestly, when week one hits, I wouldnt even have my team go out on the field for the game. I would say to the NFL, stop screwing me over for no apparent reason. If Jones/Snyder want to spend their millions on whoever during an UNCAPPED year, they can and did. And the NFL should penalize teams like the Bengals, etc. who never spend any money whatsoever which is worse than what the Cowboys and Redskins did because those teams arent even trying to be competitive. Regardless of what the Redskins and Cowboys do, you know both owners are obsessed with wanting to win a SB and will do whatever it takes to win one. For that, I give them credit. It may not work out their way but at least they're not being chicken*****.

And I understand the investment part but instead of investing in a soon to be 31 year old CB, wouldnt it be a smarter investment to take the chance on a young 25 year old WR who's just hitting the prime of his career? To me, investing isnt only about money, its about the short term and long term in regards to how that player is going to help the team. I dont see Rogers being here for more than two years if that. Wallace would have been here for at least five and looking to earn an even bigger contract in that time. Rogers isnt because he already got paid.

To me, if im going to invest money and time in someone, I always go after the younger player especially when its at a position of importance and need.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Can we all hold you to this post Dan?I'm sure you couldn't resist on posting or being a 49er fan even if we sign Tebow I doubt it though we couldn't even sign Manning lol.
Yes, you can because luckily for me, I'll just move over to the Ravens board until Reed/Lewis/Suggs retire/leave or until Tebow is gone from SF.

Tebow would have to play every game like he did against the Steelers where he threw for over 300 yards and 2 TD's but hell, thats not going to happen especially in SF so **** Tebow. Hope he goes to MIA or JAX.
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