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Old 04-14-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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After further review Michael Crabtree's stats of: 72 rec.,874 yds,4 tds was actually pretty impressive given that he missed a game, was playing through injuries for a few weeks, and played in a run first offense. I wonder if we aren't exaggerating the need for a pass catcher just a little given the additions of Manningham and Moss...although it seems like Crabtree's foot will never be 100% and Manningham is injury prone himself so the chances of both Crabtree, Manningham, and the 34 year old Moss all being healthy at the same time seems remote. I wonder if a later round pick, say Tommy Streeter in the 4th would be sufficient to address young WR depth..
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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After further review Michael Crabtree's stats of: 72 rec.,874 yds,4 tds was actually pretty impressive given that he missed a game, was playing through injuries for a few weeks, and played in a run first offense. I wonder if we aren't exaggerating the need for a pass catcher just a little given the additions of Manningham and Moss...although it seems like Crabtree's foot will never be 100% and Manningham is injury prone himself so the chances of both Crabtree, Manningham, and the 34 year old Moss all being healthy at the same time seems remote. I wonder if a later round pick, say Tommy Streeter in the 4th would be sufficient to address young WR depth..
Fans have short term memory. All they remember is the 0 catches in the NFCCG, which isn't really about anything Crabs did wrong, rather about how the Giants defended our offense as a whole. Be that as it may, I'd still like to see two more WRs drafted for some of the reason you stated as well as the fact were going to be in the same boat in two years if we dont add some young talent to the outside. Moss is on a one-year deal. Crabs will be heading into his contract year and MM will be a free agent again. We need to develop some talent at WR sooner rather than later.

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Old 04-14-2012, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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We're definitely slow-playing the FA OG market. The question is, are we banking on a 1st/2nd round pick to start at OG? Or are we banking on Kilgore to start?
I think they want Kilgore with a vet backup. But who knows how they have some of these draftable guards rated.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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I wonder if we aren't exaggerating the need for a pass catcher just a little given the additions of Manningham and Moss...
I don't think the team is missing a Crabtree type pass-catcher in any sense. They are missing speed and height. Two things Crabtree is missing.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Crabtree is under contract for three more years so he isnt going anywhere unless he gets traded. His contract could void to five years based on "unlikely to be earned incentives" so basically, he's under contract for three more years.

Moss is a one year deal while Manningham and Kyle Williams have two years left on their contracts. Draft wise, im hoping for Fleener the most followed by Hill. Any WR drafted at 30 will most likely be a long term project as I dont see that rookie surpassing the top three of Crabtree, Moss and Manningham unles there's injuries to them three. Having a guy like Fleener who adds speed AND size would be a far better weapon in our offense and would make a bigger impact sooner rather than later.

Wouldnt mind drafting Hill if Fleener is gone but if not, then I go Fleener and then draft a WR in the third or fourth round.

Also hoping that Kyle Williams doesnt get released or traded. I like that guy and think that he could be a valuable weapon in the slot plus he's young and has too much upside to give up on.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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Fans have short term memory. All they remember is the 0 catches in the NFCCG, which isn't really about anything Crabs did wrong, rather about how the Giants defended our offense as a whole. Be that as it may, I'd still like to see two more WRs drafted for some of the reason you stated as well as the fact were going to be in the same boat in two years if we dont add some young talent to the outside. Moss is on a one-year deal. Crabs will be heading into his contract year and MM will be a free agent again. We need to develop some talent at WR sooner rather than later.
I also remember his back to back drops against the Saints. Crabtree just has doesn't get that much separation and is heading down the path of Keyshawn Johnson in terms of what he can do. Unless he has an All-Pro throwing him the ball, I don't think he'll ever put up monster numbers.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Crabtree has continued to improve and is a very useful player with upside; he just hasn't yet lived up to his pre-draft hype and status. When he has more complimentary receivers ()with different skill sets) and a more downfield passing game, he'll start to flourish more.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Crabtree has continued to improve and is a very useful player with upside; he just hasn't yet lived up to his pre-draft hype and status. When he has more complimentary receivers ()with different skill sets) and a more downfield passing game, he'll start to flourish more.
QFT....my thoughts as well
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Larry Grant to sign his RFA tender today. Nice!
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Just curious how does your depth chart for WRs look for a regular personnel grouping, assuming 3 wide set.

X= Moss
Z= Crabtree
F/H= Mario

Does that look accurate?
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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moss is definitely on the outside. i see mario and crabtree being interchangeable in the slot.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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That's what I figured. How about Ginn? Do you guys use 5 wide formations a lot?
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Not really but could be because the lack of receivers last year.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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That's interesting let me know how Mario does this season. I am curious to see if a different system really does help his production. He was very inconsistent in our system, but still productive and came up with clutch catches when needed. He was a good Z for us.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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That's what I figured. How about Ginn? Do you guys use 5 wide formations a lot?
The less snaps Ginn see's at WR the better.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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The less snaps Ginn see's at WR the better.
Yes, and VD never leaves the field, so unless he is lined up and spread out at WR, you won't ever see a 5 WR set for the Niners.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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49ers! Packers! Week 1! (Rumored)

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#NFL expected to release regular season schedule this week...possibility the fox big game kickoff weekend will be 49ers at packers..
From Chris Meyers twitter. Game I was hoping for opening week.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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According to ninercaphell.com, ILB Larry Grant signed his RFA tender and WR Michael Crabtree attended the workout program.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Both good news. Grant is an excellent back-up and Crabs attending the workouts can only get him in better shape for the season.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Yes, and VD never leaves the field, so unless he is lined up and spread out at WR, you won't ever see a 5 WR set for the Niners.
Hell, you'll never see 4 WR sets for the same reason. One of biggest advatanages on offense is having two TEs that run like WRs. Taking them off the field helps the defense, not our offense.

And why is it news Crabs attended the off-season program? Crabs has attended EVERY ota/mini-camp since he's been a Niner. Its TC that has eluded him for one reason or another. This should not be news....
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Hell, you'll never see 4 WR sets for the same reason. One of biggest advatanages on offense is having two TEs that run like WRs. Taking them off the field helps the defense, not our offense.

And why is it news Crabs attended the off-season program? Crabs has attended EVERY ota/mini-camp since he's been a Niner. Its TC that has eluded him for one reason or another. This should not be news....
You guys can always go with a Y-Trips allowing VD to be in that personnel package. We used that a lot with Shockey before. Is your offensive philosophy, with all these WRs, still going to stay the same or change do you feel?
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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You guys can always go with a Y-Trips allowing VD to be in that personnel package. We used that a lot with Shockey before. Is your offensive philosophy, with all these WRs, still going to stay the same or change do you feel?
We've had this discussion before here, Jimbaugh is never going to be a chuck the ball downfield all game coach, regardless of who the personel is on the outside or who the QB is. You look at what he did at Stanford with arguably the best QB in all of college and his run/pass ratio was damn near 50/50. The philosphy wont change. He and Roman want to control the tempo of the game offensively with the run. They want to control the physicality of the game with the run. They want to run the ball down your throat, at will, and let the passing game work off the looks we give you in the running game. That's why he has all these personel packages and different sets. He likes to pass out of running sets and run out of passing sets. They want to keep the defense off balance in terms of what formations we run out of and which we pass out of. But regardkess of who the WRs are, I dont see the philosphy changing. He's equal parts Bo Schembelcer and Bill Wash. What I will say is his WCO isnt like the norm today, where most guys like McCarthy and Reid pass to set up the run. Jimbaugh believes the game is very much still dictated by running the ball and elimating turnovers.

There's a clip of him on Youtube giving a coaching clinic on QBs I ran across on another forum. Brilliant stuff really, and it gives you an idea just about how he views offense in some ways, especially the QB in his offense. I'll try to find a link...

**EDIT** Here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7-9kQJ1_sI

Last edited by VAfy-ya : 04-16-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
We've had this discussion before here, Jimbaugh is never going to be a chuck the ball downfield all game coach, regardless of who the personel is on the outside or who the QB is. You look at what he did at Stanford with arguably the best QB in all of college and his run/pass ratio was damn near 50/50. The philosphy wont change. He and Roman want to control the tempo of the game offensively with the run. They want to control the physicality of the game with the run. They want to run the ball down your throat, at will, and let the passing game work off the looks we give you in the running game. That's why he has all these personel packages and different sets. He likes to pass out of running sets and run out of passing sets. They want to keep the defense off balance in terms of what formations we run out of and which we pass out of. But regardkess of who the WRs are, I dont see the philosphy changing. He's equal parts Bo Schembelcer and Bill Wash. What I will say is his WCO isnt like the norm today, where most guys like McCarthy and Reid pass to set up the run. Jimbaugh believes the game is very much still dictated by running the ball and elimating turnovers.

There's a clip of him on Youtube giving a coaching clinic on QBs I ran across on another forum. Brilliant stuff really, and it gives you an idea just about how he views offense in some ways, especially the QB in his offense. I'll try to find a link...

Thanks, I like watching coaching clinics by various coaches. When I used to coach, the football video room was stocked by coaches clinics by NFL and other famous college coaches. Great way of learning to implement different things to the scheme.

I wonder how similar your system is to the Steelers. I know in a passing league, they want to cut it down, and run more. So I am curious to see if there running concepts and passing concepts are similar to yours.

We still use a lot of the Run and Shoot passing rules, so it's hard to find systems close to ours in terms of passing. Thanks though! I know I am interested in seeing more 4 wide sets for us assuming JJ develops.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG View Post
Thanks, I like watching coaching clinics by various coaches. When I used to coach, the football video room was stocked by coaches clinics by NFL and other famous college coaches. Great way of learning to implement different things to the scheme.

I wonder how similar your system is to the Steelers. I know in a passing league, they want to cut it down, and run more. So I am curious to see if there running concepts and passing concepts are similar to yours.

We still use a lot of the Run and Shoot passing rules, so it's hard to find systems close to ours in terms of passing. Thanks though! I know I am interested in seeing more 4 wide sets for us assuming JJ develops.
Well one of the reason I wanted Jimbaugh as our coach so much is his belief that running the ball IS still revelent in today's game. The norm now is to spread you out 4-wide, 5-wide. Get favorable match-ups by moving guys inside against the 3rd and 4th CB and exploiting that all the way down the field. So thus, the emphasis on the QB position and having talent on the outside. So all these teams are gearing up for these offenses, drafting faster, lightier LBs to help cover the short middle and wasting draft picks on uber athletic and speedy CBs and supposedly dominant edge rushers, hoping to slow down these offenses. So when a offesne like ours comes along with its Jumbo packages and 6-7 O-Line sets and runs the ball for a majority of the game, it throws them off. I think once the staff comes out of the conservative nature it had towards 3rd down and opens up a little, this offense will really take off. But we'll still be a team that looks to acheive a 50/50 balance in terms of run/pass.

And I included that link in the other post for you as well...

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Old 04-16-2012, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
Well one of the reason I wanted Jimbaugh as our coach so much is his belief that running the ball IS still revelent in today's game. The norm now is to spread you out 4-wide, 5-wide. Get favorable match-ups by moving guys inside against 3th and 4th CB and exploiting that all the way down the field. So thus, the emphasis on the QB position and having talent on the outside. So all these teams are gearing up for these offenses, drafting faster, lightier LBs to help cover the short middle and wasting draft picks on uber athletic and speedy CBs and supposedly dominant edge rushers, hoping to slow down these offenses. So when a offesne like ours comes along with its Jumbo packages and 6-7 O-Line sets and runs the ball for a majority of the game, it throws them off. I think once the staff comes out of the conservative nature it had towards 3rd down and opens up a little, this offense will really take off. But we'll still be a team that looks to acheive a 50/50 balance in terms of run/pass.

And I included that link in the other post for you as well...

We used to have a balanced system like that until our OL decided to stink at run blocking and lead the league in stinking at run blocking. That's when you look at your QB and say, well, throw to victory. In today's game, I think the QB has to be able to throw to victory. But, running the ball and using play action is a solid philosophy. That's something we need to do, and I am sure Coughlin would love to stick to that and lead the league in TOP like we used to.

It will be interesting to see how all these new additions do for your offense this upcoming year. I know I am curious to see Mario. He was too inconsistent in our system, but perhaps in yours he can do well. I hope he does, because he had the potential to do well for us, but the mental aspect of our system caused inconsistency.
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