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Old 08-17-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
hawkeye123
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I didn't see Jenkins get much separation at all, which is why he wasn't targeted more often.
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I didn't see him getting open much. I think Sean Smith half raped him on that pass breakup though.
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Old 08-17-2013, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
Chuck Jacobs was BJ Daniels #1 Read on his catches.

I can tell that McCoy/Tolzien didn't even look at Jenkins because he was on the opposite side of the field than where they were looking before they ran or were rushed.

It's interesting that people see things how they want to see them.

Jacobs got open as a priority read TWICE against a CB that might not make the team.

Jenkins got open on more than two occasions against a starting CB.

Jacobs makes plays and Jenkins is invisible.

Perfect example of why stats are irrelevant in preseason and tape is infinitely more important.
Just sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Good players find ways to make plays. Period. There is a reason why Jenkins was seeing fewer reps in practice. Jenkins just hasn't shown anything that impressive since the day he was drafted. I guess Jacobs was merely a victim of fortunate circumstance and didn't find ways to make plays. Same with Chad Hall. At least they are getting separation. Sooner or later you're going to have to at least consider the possiblity that he just isn't a good player. There have been reports that he might not even make the final roster, and I wouldn't be surprised.
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Old 08-17-2013, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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I'm not huge on McCoy's play right now either. He seems to 1 read and done. However, it's another example of how you want to look at it.

You mention legs in the pocket...

BJ Daniels was sacked twice and had 13 yards with his legs.
McCoy was sacked only once and had 37 yards with his legs.

I didn't like McCoy's game, but I felt he looked better than Tolzien.
McCoy is also a veteran QB that has been playing the position a lot longer than Daniels, who was able to lead the 49ers on a 90 yard drive for the winning score. McCoy has shown nothing in two preseason stints. He can't even make things interesting.
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Old 08-17-2013, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Where are you guys seeing the film that shows Jenkins not getting separation?

Balls were thrown to him (meaning this is when you saw him) THREE times. He was open on two of those three occasions.

If he's the third read, and the QB bails after reads one or two, how do you know he didn't get separation? Without having all-22.

What plays are Chad Hall and Chuck Jacobs making that Jenkins hasn't? Sure Jacobs got a TD against the scrubs. But Hall has one more catch than Jenkins and has seen a TON more looks from McCoy/Tolzien.

Jenkins had better separation on two of his three targets last night than Jacobs had on any of his three looks.
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Old 08-17-2013, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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We're arguing about how well 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string QBs are targeting the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th best WRs.

We can't ignore that Jenkins is on the field with Boldin and Kaep while Jacobs is on the field with Lavelle Hawkins and BJ Daniels.
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Old 08-17-2013, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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You say Jacobs got a touchdown against scrubs. He's also playing with scrubs. He's making catches. He's finding ways to make plays regardless of circumstance. At least catching a ball. The only catch Jenkins has so far is the one he fumbled on. Maybe it's bad luck, but for whatever reason he just isn't making plays and at the end of the day when the excuses keep piling up, that isn't going to save him. He was a first round pick. It's time to start showing something. Anything.

"Make the play. Make the play that no one else will make. That's what makes us different".

- Cris Carter to Randy Moss.
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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You say Jacobs got a touchdown against scrubs. He's also playing with scrubs. He's making catches. He's finding ways to make plays regardless of circumstance. At least catching a ball. The only catch Jenkins has so far is the one he fumbled on. Maybe it's bad luck, but for whatever reason he just isn't making plays and at the end of the day when the excuses keep piling up, that isn't going to save him. He was a first round pick. It's time to start showing something. Anything.

"Make the play. Make the play that no one else will make. That's what makes us different".

- Cris Carter to Randy Moss.
How can a player make a play if the ball isn't thrown to them?

Or when they make the longest reception of anyone on his team and it's called back by penalty?

Or when he has at least a full step and might have a long catch or even TD but the ball is so poorly thrown that it's picked?

I'd like to see Jenkins get the ball more. Blame him (like you do) or blame many, many other things (like I do) I just want to see him in rhythm. Hand him that reverse that you faked him this week. Throw him that motion screen that got blown up last week. Hit him in stride for huge gains instead of throwing it horrendously to the other team like the last two weeks. Don't fumble when you do get a catch, like last week.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:59 AM    (permalink
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Where are you guys seeing the film that shows Jenkins not getting separation?

Balls were thrown to him (meaning this is when you saw him) THREE times. He was open on two of those three occasions.

If he's the third read, and the QB bails after reads one or two, how do you know he didn't get separation? Without having all-22.

What plays are Chad Hall and Chuck Jacobs making that Jenkins hasn't? Sure Jacobs got a TD against the scrubs. But Hall has one more catch than Jenkins and has seen a TON more looks from McCoy/Tolzien.

Jenkins had better separation on two of his three targets last night than Jacobs had on any of his three looks.
So are you telling me that in all instances Jenkins hasn't had his chances to make plays and that fate is just screwing him over? Really? I already said our other quarterbacks were horrible. How is that not soliciting blame? Jenkins has had his chances to make plays even when the quarterbacks have struggled. When he had chances he either fumbled the ball or was abused by Sean Smith. In an age where rookie wide receivers are showing promise from the get-go, the standards have been raised. Especially someone with that high of a draft status. So it's easy for people to be frustrated that he hasn't done anything up to this point. Especially now with an open receiver competition that he definitely isn't taking by the horns from what has been reported in training camp.

Matt Barrows take:

Quote:
Jenkins was shut out in the game, but like last week's interception, it's hard to blame this turnover on him. Having said that, Jenkins at times had a hard time getting off the line of scrimmage against Smith, one of the bigger, more physical cornerbacks in the league (and someone the 49ers briefly considered in free agency). It provides a template for how defenses, say, Seattle's, would approach Jenkins.
Jenkins couldn't even get off the line of scrimmage. As for Jacobs, he had two catches. The game winning touchdown and he had a catch in the middle of two defenders. Yeah they were against scrubs, but like I already said he was playing with scrubs too. Jacobs is at least looking hungry out there.

The good thing is that Jenkins still has time. As for the bad quarterbacks yards, it's an issue when getting opportunities, but at the same time we should at least be seeing flashes. And we've seen receivers have great or at least decent production with horrible quarterbacks. So I can't fully buy that excuse.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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What he's saying Ness is that AJ isn't going against 3rd or 4th stringers, he's playing with the one's and two's, so you can't compare his production to guys like Jacobs and Hall, who aren't facing the same level of comp. You think Jacobs and Hall fare better against Sean Smith? I certainly don't. And he did have a catch called back due to a penalty as well. I understand that yes, eventually he has to do something but ppl are overreacting to pre-season once again. Jenkins isn't that bad and Jacobs wasn't that good...its somewhere in the middle.

That being said, reading the reports from some of the fans who attended the Fan Fest, its clear that Jenkins has potential but isnt the most impressive of the young WRs. Most reports I read raved about how fluid and precise Pattton looked in drills and catching the ball, compared to Jenkins. How he makes it look effortless and how he did all this, while catching with only one hand so there's that too. For whatever reason, Jenkins hasn't been as impressive as most thought he would be. Doesn't mean the light won't come on for him but it just means as of now, other WRs are standing out and ppl are taking notice. I'm not ready to give up on him though.

As far as the QBs, I think both Tolizen and McCoy are better NOW than Daniels but I think it would be a huge mistake if they cut Daniels and he got picked up off waivers. He needs to make the 53. I look at Daniels the same way I looked at CK when we drafted him. Its not about the now, its about the future and his potential, his ceiling. He might not be ready to help you this year but heading into year two, I think he could lock up the #2 QB slot behind CK and we'd be set a QB for the forseeable future. And he has the talent to be one of the better back-ups in the league. Big arm, athletic and quick, can make guys miss in space and would have the privilege of learning from JH, the QB maestro himself. A guy who could come in if something happened to CK and you wouldn't have to change your offense or play-calling in anyway.

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Old 08-18-2013, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Right now i would go with Kaepernick, McCoy and Daniels.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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What he's saying Ness is that AJ isn't going against 3rd or 4th stringers, he's playing with the one's and two's, so you can't compare his production to guys like Jacobs and Hall, who aren't facing the same level of comp. You think Jacobs and Hall fare better against Sean Smith? I certainly don't. And he did have a catch called back due to a penalty as well. I understand that yes, eventually he has to do something but ppl are overreacting to pre-season once again. Jenkins isn't that bad and Jacobs wasn't that good...its somewhere in the middle.

That being said, reading the reports from some of the fans who attended the Fan Fest, its clear that Jenkins has potential but isnt the most impressive of the young WRs. Most reports I read raved about how fluid and precise Pattton looked in drills and catching the ball, compared to Jenkins. How he makes it look effortless and how he did all this, while catching with only one hand so there's that too. For whatever reason, Jenkins hasn't been as impressive as most thought he would be. Doesn't mean the light won't come on for him but it just means as of now, other WRs are standing out and ppl are taking notice. I'm not ready to give up on him though.
I'm just saying that Jenkins is also playing with the starters. And yes it's preseaosn, but I'm also going off what has been said by a lot of the beat writers in training camp practices, not just games.

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As far as the QBs, I think both Tolizen and McCoy are better NOW than Daniels but I think it would be a huge mistake if they cut Daniels and he got picked up off waivers. He needs to make the 53. I look at Daniels the same way I looked at CK when we drafted him. Its not about the now, its about the future and his potential, his ceiling. He might not be ready to help you this year but heading into year two, I think he could lock up the #2 QB slot behind CK and we'd be set a QB for the forseeable future. And he has the talent to be one of the better back-ups in the league. Big arm, athletic and quick, can make guys miss in space and would have the privilege of learning from JH, the QB maestro himself. A guys who could come in if something happened to CK and you wouldn't have to change your offense or play-calling in anyway.
Daniels could also be used in preparation for guys like Wilson or Griffin III. I like his versatility and potential to be a backup quarterback for us. Hopefully he makes the roster. We'll have to see how he does in these next two games.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Right now i would go with Kaepernick, McCoy and Daniels.
I'd go CK, Tolizen, Daniels. Daniels is basically McCoy with a better arm, speed, and mobility IMO. Just very raw and needs some tutelage.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Well, all the debates about Jenkins getting seperation or not have become irrelevant to us. He's off the team. Never seen a team give up on a top 30 pick this quickly. I love me some Baalke but no doubt, this was a huge miss (in the sense of how bad AJ was, not how significant it is to the team).
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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This kind of makes Harbaugh look like a moron for coming to AJ Jenkins defense last off season and saying how they were wrong about him and how he was going to be a great football player.

We could have had Alshon Jeffery. Or Marvin Jones. Damn. Come on Chuck Jacobs!
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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This kind of makes Harbaugh look like a moron for coming to AJ Jenkins defense last off season and saying how they were wrong about him and how he was going to be a great football player.

We could have had Alshon Jeffery. Or Marvin Jones. Damn. Come on Chuck Jacobs!
He still might be, just not with the Niners...

And Jacobs is not making the team, c'mon now...
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Jon Baldwin is coming to sf. I'm assuming in a trade,kc gets Jenkins . . I guess we are desperate need in wide outs .. report from 49ers facebook.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
And Jacobs is not making the team, c'mon now...
If I had told you yesterday that Jenkins wasn't making the team would you have believed me?
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
Jon Baldwin is coming to sf. I'm assuming in a trade,kc gets Jenkins . . I guess we are desperate need in wide outs .. report from 49ers facebook.
Why are you always late to the party? Do you ever read prior posts to see that everyone is already aware of the situation?
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-19-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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If I had told you yesterday that Jenkins wasn't making the team would you have believed me?
There was a strong possibility so yes, I would have. Its not like that wasn't being reported for weeks now. I would have disagreed personally but everone knew AJ wasn't having the best camp.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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There was a strong possibility so yes, I would have. Its not like that wasn't being reported for weeks now. I would have disagreed personally but everone knew AJ wasn't having the best camp.
Yeah you would have disagreed personally just like I'm disagreeing with you at the notion that Jacobs can't make the team. Stranger things have happened. Come on now.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-19-2013, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Not surprised that Jenkins is gone and im actually looking forward to seeing how Baldwin plays the last two pre-season games. His size (6'4, 230) is definitely a plus compared to Jenkins (6'0, 190).

While drafting Jenkins at 30 in 2012 was a bust pick and not the one I was hoping for, I like how Baalke and Harbaugh quickly moved on from him where as most teams keep busts far too long.

Right now, the 2012 draft class is looking horrible. Jenkins was traded, Slowey is long gone, Looney, Fleming and Johnson have been injured and/or a non-factor and Robinson has just been a special teamer at best. Best draft pick thus far was LaMichael James.

Really wish that we drafted Fleener a year ago and yeah, I know he underachieved in Indy and is currently injured but still a far better draft pick than Jenkins was.

Oh well, thankfully 2011 was awesome...Aldon, Kaepernick, Culliver, Hunter, Miller and even Kilgore is solid.

Really hoping that we can hit on the majority of our 2013 draft class. Thus far, Reid has been solid and should win the starting FS spot not that beating out Dahl and a bunch of special teamers is saying much but still good nevertheless. McDonald looks like he's going to be our third best offensive weapon in the passing game, Daniels has surpassed expectations already and should make the final 53, Patton has upside and will hopefully show it this season and Lemonier has been a pleasant surprise. If Lattimore can bounce back in 2014, this draft class will definitely make up for 2012. Add in Carradine and the rest hopefully contributing when healthy and yeah, im still pumped for this season.

Jenkins being given up on this fast is definitely disappointing and even surprising but im still giving Baalke and Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt and credit for moving on this fast from a first rounder. Must admit that the rookie wage scale is great because in instances like this, you dont have to hold on to a guy waiting for him to break out only to see it never happen.

Three more weeks to go until opening kickoff!! Woohoo!!!
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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I'm probably being too optimistic but i could see our first 6 picks in 2013 make a big impact for this team sooner or later. Reid, McDonald, and Lemonier should make impacts from week 1, if preseason/TC is any indication. And i can't wait for Carradine/Lattimore to get healthy. And Patton has that great drive and a great opportunity to work his way up the depth chart now that he's healthy. I think all 6 will be core contributors on this team. Either way, it'll be infinitely better than 2012, where right now only James looks like a core contributor.

Article from Maiocco- Training Camp recap. There's a LOT of good info in this piece (offensive/defensive player of TC, who was the worst player in TC, UDFA's to keep an eye on, etc etc). But this part of the article caught my eye the most.

Quote:
Long-snapper Kevin McDermott -- The 49ers are giving serious consideration to going younger and cheaper. And it's not as if reliable Brian Jennings has done anything wrong.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-s...ake-connection

In such a crucial year for us (although they're all crucial now), i don't know how wise it would be to go from a long standing veteran to a rookie UDFA handling LS duties. I always favor going younger and cheaper if possible, but not sure this is the right move.

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Old 08-20-2013, 05:04 AM    (permalink
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Other interesting tidbits from that article. Sounds like the writing was on the wall for Jenkins all along.

Quote:
A play to file away: On the opening weekend of camp, wide receiver A.J. Jenkins was involved in a play that perhaps illustrates a bigger problem.

Jenkins lined up in the left slot. A quick pass intended for him was deflected into the air. Jenkins still had a chance to go up and catch the pass -- or at the very least try to break it up. Instead, he stood just a few feet away and did not even attempt to make a play on the ball.

Twice in exhibition games and several other times on the practice field, Jenkins allowed defensive players to have unchallenged chances for interceptions. Maybe he lacks confidence. Maybe he lacks attitude. Maybe he's too passive.

However it's labeled, Jenkins has continued to underperform to the point that his spot on the 53-man roster is now in question. The 49ers will give the 2012 first-round pick the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the final cuts, but he has to demonstrate a role on the team is something for which he is willing to fight.

Vernon Davis last week gave a hint of Jenkins' problems -- while also endorsing him for a key role on the team. "I don't think we can rush him because it's up to him to change his mindset and really take off," Davis said.
And it looks like Jacobs does have an actual chance to make the squad if this has any truth to it.

Quote:
The 49ers figure to keep six receivers to open the season. Let's assume Boldin, Williams and Moore are locks. You can also place Patton, a fourth-round pick, in that category. That means Jenkins, Austin Collie, Lavelle Hawkins, Chad Hall, Ricardo Lockette, Kassim Osgood and undrafted rookie Chuck Jacobs are fighting for two spots.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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I go back and forth on it, but at this point i think the last 2 spots go to Osgood (extra special teams help- looks like we're going to need it) and Baldwin (his salary is guaranteed anyway, at least for this year). Jacobs to PS. I don't think Jacobs will have an issue clearing waivers.
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