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Old 03-15-2014, 09:31 AM    (permalink
YAYareaRB
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6'2" CB running a 4.4 coming that cheap.. let him compete. Two of our better DBs came here as fixer uppers and ended up being pro bowlers (Whitner and Rogers). Chris Cook just needed the change
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB View Post
6'2" CB running a 4.4 coming that cheap.. let him compete. Two of our better DBs came here as fixer uppers and ended up being pro bowlers (Whitner and Rogers). Chris Cook just needed the change
Couldnt have said it any better...

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Old 03-15-2014, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure why there's so much fuss over these moves. In all we gave up a 6th round pick, conditional future 7th, and a 1 year/vet minimum contract for 3 talented players. Low risk, high reward moves.

I could see it if we needed the upgrades desperately...but we're one of the best teams in the NFL. We don't have that many needs, and the needs we do have will be filled in the draft. And we don't have the cap space to sign elite players like Revis, especially when we need that space to re-sign Kaep/Aldon/Iupati/Crabs, among a lot of other smaller priorities (Miller, Kilgore, etc). I just don't see a point in giving elite deals to average or even above average players.

I just don't see the reason to freak out over FA...i think we're fine anyway

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Old 03-15-2014, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure why there's so much fuss over these moves. In all we gave up a 6th round pick, conditional future 7th, and a 1 year/vet minimum contract for 3 talented players. Low risk, high reward moves.

I could see it if we needed the upgrades desperately...but we're one of the best teams in the NFL. We don't have that many needs, and the needs we do have will be filled in the draft. And we don't have the cap space to sign elite players like Revis, especially when we need that space to re-sign Kaep/Aldon/Iupati/Crabs, among a lot of other smaller priorities (Miller, Kilgore, etc). I just don't see a point in giving elite deals to average or even above average players.

I just don't see the reason to freak out over FA...i think we're fine anyway
The draft is when the panic will really commence.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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This sucks...WR Emmanuel Sanders decided to sign with the Broncos while on his flight to visit the 49ers. Man, he was the one WR I was hoping for. Oh well.

Come on Baalke, go get Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie please. He has to be getting crap offers to still be available on the soon to be sixth day of FA.
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Old 03-16-2014, 05:27 AM    (permalink
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This sucks...WR Emmanuel Sanders decided to sign with the Broncos while on his flight to visit the 49ers. Man, he was the one WR I was hoping for. Oh well.

Come on Baalke, go get Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie please. He has to be getting crap offers to still be available on the soon to be sixth day of FA.
I think we're done in free agency. Might try and sign a vet wideout still but this is a organization that puts the premium on the draft, not free agency. Most teams use free agency to find starters. We mainly use free agency to sign depth players to low risk, high reward type of deals, see Dorsey and Skuta last year. I don't understand why Niner fans get so excited for free agency like we're going to spend tons of money on big name free agents. Sure you will read about this player or that player coming to visit but ultimately, if they're not willing to sign a team-friendly deal, they're not going to sign here.

Baalke belives in his coaches and his scouts. That's why he always goes after guys in free agency that he liked as prospects during the drafting process(apparently he was very high on Cook, Dorsey, Skuta, and Wright before their respective drafts) so it all goes back to trusting your scouting department. Its also why he likes 'fixer-uppers' as YayArea put it. Guys whdidn't necessarily live up to expectations elsewhere but have immense talent and maybe just need a change a scenery and some great coaching to finally realize that potential.

Baalke and Marthe's main focus is to spend on their own players, rather than to go out and sign high-priced guys from other teams. Especially with no glaring holes anywhere on the roster. Even Bethea's deal, a guy who is looked at as a prime candiate to start opposite Reid, was made so that any rookie we draft has a opportunity to come in, compete and EARN a starting gig by beating out a solid vet and us not being tied up in a lot of dead money if that is the case. He wasnt given frontline money like he has to be the starter. He was given a pay as you play type of deal. Same with Dorsey last year.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya
I think we're done in free agency. Might try and sign a vet wideout still but this is a organization that puts the premium on the draft, not free agency. Most teams use free agency to find starters. We mainly use free agency to sign depth players to low risk, high reward type of deals, see Dorsey and Skuta last year. I don't understand why Niner fans get so excited for free agency like we're going to spend tons of money on big name free agents. Sure you will read about this player or that player coming to visit but ultimately, if they're not willing to sign a team-friendly deal, they're not going to sign here.
Veteran WR? What for? To be fourth on the depth chart? I know we're a team that puts a premium on the draft, yet the team signed Bethea to start at SS (and if he doesnt, what a waste of money and a roster spot), traded for Gabbert (sorry, horrible move) to be the backup to Kaepernick and God forbid that Kaepernick gets injured because if that happens, season is over. Wright and Cook are nothing but depth players and I can definitely see either or both not making it past final cuts.

I dont get excited about free agency like I used to but when the team signs or re-signs Bethea, Cook, Wright, Boldin and Dawson, trades for Gabbert and Martin and you look at their contracts for 2014 and 2015 plus the dead money that the team will take if Bethea, Boldin and/or Dawson are released in 2015, why not take that money and actually get a young in his prime player like Verner? Look at his contract. His contract is a ******* steal with no signing bonus money. Yeah, he has a cap number of $8.25m, $8m of which is fully guaranteed but after 2014, he's a ******* steal. At 25, I personally would have went after Verner once I knew he was going to accept that kind of contract. Its highly unlikely that Boldin and Dawson will be on the team in 2015 (and im against restructuring contracts like DAL and PIT seem to do every year as that doesnt solve anything) which means that they would get released. That would cause a cap hit of $4.636m. If Bethea gets beat out by a rookie, chances are he'll be a one year guy which means that after 2014, releasing him would give us a $3.75m cap hit. Thats a total of $8.386m in dead money which to me is a total waste of cap room.

Dont get me wrong, im very happy we re-signed Boldin and can accept re-signing Dawson but going after a 30 year old safety in Bethea plus trading for Gabbert and his $2m salary plus signing Wright and Cook, why NOT go after a young stud CB like Verner? He just turned 25 in December, was a solid shutdown corner and he plays the right side which is perfect since Brock is better suited for the left side. Its very rare that a CB like Verner hits the open market at his age and when you look at what others like Revis, Talib, Grimes, Shields and Davis received, Verner becomes an even bigger steal. Granted, Verner would be expensive for 2014 ($8m) but when you add up Bethea, Wright, Cook (dont know his numbers yet) and Gabbert, the difference is just over/under $2m more for 2014.

Now, come on. I'm sorry, there's no way in hell that anyone here cam honestly say that they would rather have a 30 year old safety in Bethea, a horrible corner in Wright, arguably the worst QB in the league in Gabbert and Cook as opposed to signing Verner instead. Anyone who prefers those four old to average to horrible players over Verner has a bigger problem than I do for wanting Verner. CB is a far more important position than SS and considering who we signed or re-signed to play CB, how can any 49ers fan not want Verner? After 2014, to have a CB like Verner for under $6m a year would have been great. Hell, if Baalke and Harbaugh could bring back Rogers two years ago at 30+, why not go after Verner?

Sorry but these moves piss me off because to me, its about quality, not quantity. The quality of Verner blows away the quality of those other four guys especially when you add his age and position he plays.

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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya
Baalke belives in his coaches and his scouts. That's why he always goes after guys in free agency that he liked as prospects during the drafting process(apparently he was very high on Cook, Dorsey, Skuta, and Wright before their respective drafts) so it all goes back to trusting your scouting department. Its also why he likes 'fixer-uppers' as YayArea put it. Guys whdidn't necessarily live up to expectations elsewhere but have immense talent and maybe just need a change a scenery and some great coaching to finally realize that potential.
Gabbert has immense talent??? LOL. Yeah right. Trading for him makes no sense whatsoever and how can he improved or like some think, be traded for a higher draft pick. That makes me laugh. How is his value going to improve when barring an injury to Kaepernick, he'll be sitting on the bench? Sorry but thats a waste. If you're going to acquire a player, at least acquire a player that has shown some flashes of goodness here and there. Cook is the only guy who I think will be good out of him, re-signing Wright and acquiring Gabbert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VAfy-ya
Baalke and Marthe's main focus is to spend on their own players, rather than to go out and sign high-priced guys from other teams. Especially with no glaring holes anywhere on the roster. Even Bethea's deal, a guy who is looked at as a prime candiate to start opposite Reid, was made so that any rookie we draft has a opportunity to come in, compete and EARN a starting gig by beating out a solid vet and us not being tied up in a lot of dead money if that is the case. He wasnt given frontline money like he has to be the starter. He was given a pay as you play type of deal. Same with Dorsey last year.
This, I agree with but here's the problem. How are they going to extend anyone this off-season? They only have $4.4m in cap room plus most of that money will go to their draft class. I dont see any of the big three (Kaepernick, Crabtree and Iupati) being extended until next february, if that. They simply dont have the cap room and wasting over $8m in cap room next year if Boldin, Bethea and Dawson are released doesnt help either.

But whatever, just have to wait and see what happens. Right now, im just waiting for the Draft.
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Dan...

Are you saying you don't have any faith that the 49ers coaches can actually develop talent?

Because that's EXACTLY what Gabbert, Martin, Wright, and Cook are. Depth acquisitions of underachieving but TREMENDOUSLY talented athletes.

Look what Harbaugh did with Alex Smith. Imagine if he yields similar improvement from Gabbert. That's a heist and will be a boon for the franchise.
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Old 03-17-2014, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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Dan...

Are you saying you don't have any faith that the 49ers coaches can actually develop talent?

Because that's EXACTLY what Gabbert, Martin, Wright, and Cook are. Depth acquisitions of underachieving but TREMENDOUSLY talented athletes.

Look what Harbaugh did with Alex Smith. Imagine if he yields similar improvement from Gabbert. That's a heist and will be a boon for the franchise.
That's not what im saying at all. What im saying is that instead of Bethea, Gabbert, Wright and Cook, I would have preferred Verner for four or five years.

As for the coaches developing talent...I will give you two of the four. I'm actually looking forward to seeing what the coaching staff can do with a big physical cornerback like Cook. The second player would be Martin because he was a second round draft pick, has started at LT and RT in two seasons in Miami. If he can develop and become better than Snyder, I'll be a happy camper.

As for Wright, no, I dont think that he'll ever be better than average and thats being generous. His work ethic sucks, he was badly outplayed by Cox (who I preferred to see us re-sign as opposed to Wright), didnt play at all in the playoffs and hell, couldnt even beat out Morris to play on special teams. Add in the fact that he'll be 29 in July and is injury prone and quite honestly, I would be shocked as hell if he makes it past final cuts.

As for Gabbert, again, no. Gabbert sucked in JAX plain and simple yet people use excuses for him yet Henne played considerably much better so that cant be used as an excuse. He's going into the final year of his rookie contract and while the bonus money has either been eliminated, re-worked or still carried by Jacksonville, his base salary of over $2m is guaranteed. Sorry but he's not worth half that, let alone $2m. I was hoping for Shaun Hill to be the backup QB. We need a veteran to mentor Kaepernick and while Hill is in his 30's, if he had to play here and there, I wouldnt be concerned at all to be honest with you. If anything, he would definitely push Kaepernick to be better a lot more than Gabbert will.

And why do people think that we'll be able to trade Gabbert down the line? How in the hell is his value going to increase by sitting on the bench? Cant use Alex Smith as a comparison because Smith actually started in 2011 and 9 games in 2012 before suffering a concussion. If Gabbert becomes our starter at any point for any reason, I'll be anxiously awaiting our top five draft pick because thats exactly what will happen. Also, if the team extends Gabbert before next February, im not going to be happy because to me, its a waste of cap room and a roster spot plain and simple. Not only that but in no way, shape or form can Gabbert be used as leverage in the Kaepernick contract talks because well, Gabbert sucks and until he proves otherwise, im not changing my stance on him. $2m for a piece of crap. UGH.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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How was he badly outplayed by Cox? He got dinged(think it was his hamstring) leading up to the Packers game so they decided to go with Cox and granted he played well but remember, we cut Cox to make room for Wright during the season. He looked pretty good during his spot duty during the regular season. Especially for a guy who was out of football for a year and was working off some of the rust. They wouldn't have re-signed him if he had work ethic issues so I think its safe to put those rumors to bed.

Verner is a good CB but he isnt somebody you shell out big money to. And who says Baalke and Co thought he was worth that kind of money anyway? He had one very good year but the jury is still out whether he is a true #1 CB. Again, for those that are too dense or too stubborn to comprehend, WE DON'T SHELL OUT BIG MONEY FOR OTHER TEAM'S FREE AGENTS ANYMORE. We draft and develop our own players. That's why both Cook and Wright got one-year deals. If they thrive in this system, we can think about working out a extenstion during the season. But more than likely, they'll here for a year while the 2-3 CBs we draft have a chance to learn and develop for a year behind vets and can hopefully step up in 2015 into more prominent roles. That's excatly what we did with Cully. Good teams who stay on top and relevant, find their starters in the draft, not overspending in free agency. You start using free agency to find the talent your lacking because your GM is missing on draft day.

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Old 03-17-2014, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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How was he badly outplayed by Cox? He got dinged(think it was his hamstring) leading up to the Packers game so they decided to go with Cox and granted he played well but remember, we cut Cox to make room for Wright during the season. He looked pretty good during his spot duty during the regular season. Especially for a guy who was out of football for a year and was working off some of the rust. They wouldn't have re-signed him if he had work ethic issues so I think its safe to put those rumors to bed.
Maybe not badly outplayed but he was outplayed nevertheless. It was Rogers who had a hamstring injury, not Wright. Wright was said to have a horrible work ethic which is why they didnt play him in the playoffs.

Cutting Cox for Wright was a mistake in my opinion. Cox is actually a good nickel back and better than Rogers in my opinion. As for Wright being re-signed, he was a cheap re-signing and as of right now, is nothing more than a camp body. Looking at CB, we have Brock, Culliver, Cook and Morris plus at least an early draft pick. I dont see Brock, Culliver, Cook or Morris going anywhere so that leaves Wright as the odd man out especially when you factor in his age and that he's injury prone. Plus, he has a cheap one year contract with only a $25k signing bonus so releasing him would be a minimal cap hit.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:59 AM    (permalink
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Verner is a good CB but he isnt somebody you shell out big money to. And who says Baalke and Co thought he was worth that kind of money anyway? He had one very good year but the jury is still out whether he is a true #1 CB. Again, for those that are too dense or too stubborn to comprehend, WE DON'T SHELL OUT BIG MONEY FOR OTHER TEAM'S FREE AGENTS ANYMORE. We draft and develop our own players. That's why both Cook and Wright got one-year deals. If they thrive in this system, we can think about working out a extenstion during the season. But more than likely, they'll here for a year while the 2-3 CBs we draft have a chance to learn and develop for a year behind vets and can hopefully step up in 2015 into more prominent roles. That's excatly what we did with Cully. Good teams who stay on top and relevant, find their starters in the draft, not overspending in free agency. You start using free agency to find the talent your lacking because your GM is missing on draft day.
Big money??? How is $6m a year big money when you consider what we gave Rogers two years ago? And compared to Revis, Grimes, Davis, Talib and Shields, Verner would have been a steal. Plus, his contract has no signing bonus money so after 2014, he can be released at any time with no cap hit.

Never said Baalke or the team was after him. I'm personally saying it because when I see what Bethea, Gabbert, Wright and Cook is getting paid for 2014, I would have just added $2m more and go after Verner instead.

I know that we dont shell out big money for other team's free agents but yet, look at Bethea. Granted, he only has a $3m cap number for 2014 compared to Verner who has an $8m cap number but at the same, Verner is 25 years old compared to Bethea who'll be 30 in July plus Verner plays a far more important position.

Bethea's cap numbers are $4.75m, $6.25m and $7.00m for 2015, 2016 and 2017. Verner's cap numbers are $4.25m, $6.75m and $6.50m for 2015, 2016 and 2017. For those three years, Verner is actually $500k cheaper overall and unlike Bethea, after 2014, Verner has no cap hit whatsoever.

Draft and develop our own guys? Hmmm, Rogers wasnt our own guy. He was a Redskins reject and we overpaid his crappy 30+ years old ass. Cook isnt our own guy and neither is Wright. They're rejects from Minnesota and Tampa Bay respectively. I can see Cook possibly doing good but not Wright.

As for good teams staying on top depending on the Draft instead of overspending on free agents, then explain to me the Broncos and Patriots? The Patriots havent exactly done great in the draft and they pay free agents. Must admit that they're smart going after Revis and Browner to counter the Broncos passing attack.

As for Verner having one good season, true but look at his age, position he plays and his contract. Even if he was to SUCK in 2014, no big deal because he can be cut at any time after 2014 without any dead money whatsoever.

And go back to 2011, Rogers had a great year and what happened? He declined and sucked just like I said he was going to.

You guys just love to make every signing and/or trade seem like its a great addition. Maybe im wrong but I dont even remember the last time anyone here bashed or even disliked any signing and/or trade. Baalke could sign crap and you guys would look at it as gold.

I have always looked at things from a different perspective and point of view and always will. To me, taking a chance on Verner as opposed to Bethea, Gabbert, Cook and Wright combined would have been a far better decision. But whatever, to each his/her own.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:47 AM    (permalink
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How was he badly outplayed by Cox? He got dinged(think it was his hamstring) leading up to the Packers game so they decided to go with Cox and granted he played well but remember, we cut Cox to make room for Wright during the season. He looked pretty good during his spot duty during the regular season. Especially for a guy who was out of football for a year and was working off some of the rust. They wouldn't have re-signed him if he had work ethic issues so I think its safe to put those rumors to bed.

Verner is a good CB but he isnt somebody you shell out big money to. And who says Baalke and Co thought he was worth that kind of money anyway? He had one very good year but the jury is still out whether he is a true #1 CB. Again, for those that are too dense or too stubborn to comprehend, WE DON'T SHELL OUT BIG MONEY FOR OTHER TEAM'S FREE AGENTS ANYMORE. We draft and develop our own players. That's why both Cook and Wright got one-year deals. If they thrive in this system, we can think about working out a extenstion during the season. But more than likely, they'll here for a year while the 2-3 CBs we draft have a chance to learn and develop for a year behind vets and can hopefully step up in 2015 into more prominent roles. That's excatly what we did with Cully. Good teams who stay on top and relevant, find their starters in the draft, not overspending in free agency. You start using free agency to find the talent your lacking because your GM is missing on draft day.
Sometimes it might depend on the player in terms of shelling out big money for high profile free agents. I remember Harbaugh's first year here, they went after Johnathan Joesph fairly hard, but then pulled out after Houston and another team took the bidding war to another level.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:03 AM    (permalink
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Here we go again, it's "Dan vs. The Entire 49er Fanbase" for the 8th billionth time. Get over yourself dude.

Honestly though, negotiating in hindsight is completely worthless. And you can't just go, "I would have not signed 4 players and instead given a few more millions to get Verner." It doesn't work like that in the real world. Those players have roles to play on the team. You can't roll with a 47-man roster just because you later on found out Verner signed a deal with a different team to terms you like.

If only I had spent that extra $2 on the Powerball and bought the ticket with the winning numbers on it.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Maybe not badly outplayed but he was outplayed nevertheless. It was Rogers who had a hamstring injury, not Wright. Wright was said to have a horrible work ethic which is why they didnt play him in the playoffs.
Both had hamstring problems. Wright hurt his on the Thursday before the Packers game. Rogers hurt his vs the Cards.
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Sometimes it might depend on the player in terms of shelling out big money for high profile free agents. I remember Harbaugh's first year here, they went after Johnathan Joesph fairly hard, but then pulled out after Houston and another team took the bidding war to another level.
Well that proves my point. Once the $ got to a place Baalke wasn't comfortable with, he bowed out. And the roster was very different then. We needed to acquire talent outside the organization. When Nolan and Scotty Mac was in charge, we had to shell out big money to guys like Jonas Jennings, Cowboy and Nate Clements. Even in Harabaugh's first year, we had to go out and acquire guys like Rogers and Whitner. Because we were trying to build the roster to the point where we are now. A point to where free agency would be looked at the supplement the roster, not add talent.

The reason teams like NE, Pitt, and GB are such big players in free agency recently is because their recent draft has not produced the kind of talent they were used to in previous years. That's not where you want to be. One of the main reasons us and Seattle have become elite in terms of roster talent is because we both have built our roster through the draft, with a few free agents acquisitions sprinkled in. That's the blueprint you want to keep. It keeps you out of cap hell and when you spend most your cap re-signing and extending your own talent, it builds a better locker room morale. Guys know if they play well, the organization will work to give them what their due.

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Old 03-17-2014, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49er...der-salary-cap

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The 49ers are $3.726 million under the NFL salary cap
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The 49ers will gain another $6.6 million in salary-cap space in June as a result of the teamís decision to release cornerback Carlos Rogers with a post-June 1 designation.
Chris Cook's deal

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Cook is set to make $730,000 if he remains on the 49ersí 53-man roster for the entire season. With a minimum-salary benefit, Cooks counts only $570,000 against the 49ersí salary cap.
So now we have 3.7 mil....June 2, we'll have 10.3 million dollars of cap space.

So we could still sign more FA's until June 2....but their total cap charge for this year has to be 3.7 million at most.

Any FA's we sign will probably have to be of the 1 year/1-2 million dollar variety. Although that was pretty safe to assume anyway, as right now is the time to start looking for bargains.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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The reason teams like NE, Pitt, and GB are such big players in free agency recently is because their recent draft has not produced the kind of talent they were used to in previous years.
Not really the case at all with NE. Not sure why you'd lump them in w/ Green Bay and Pittsburgh. They are investing aggressively in free agency this year because they have Veteran contracts about to age out (Wilfork/Mankins), a big lump sum of dead money coming off the cap because of Hernandez, cap relief from the league from the Fanene debacle, and one of the younger and cheaper overall rosters in the league.

Anyways the real reason the 49ers can't spend money is pretty obvious. They need to resign Kaepernick, 5th year option Aldon Smith, Michael Crabtree, Mike Iupati, Chris Culliver, and Bruce Miller next year with about $30 million in cap room. The 49ers drafts the past 2 years haven't been quite as good as 2010 and 2011, so the pipeline of replacement talent on rookie contracts isn't really as obvious right now. You're bound to add players through FA when you know you can let your current veterans or expiring rookie contracts walk. The 49ers don't really have that luxury right now because of the uncertainty of the 2012 and 2013 rookie classes.

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Old 03-17-2014, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Not really the case at all with NE. Not sure why you'd lump them in w/ Green Bay and Pittsburgh. They are investing aggressively in free agency this year because they have Veteran contracts about to age out (Wilfork/Mankins), a big lump sum of dead money coming off the cap because of Hernandez, cap relief from the league from the Fanene debacle, and one of the younger and cheaper overall rosters in the league.

Anyways the real reason the 49ers can't spend money is pretty obvious. They need to resign Kaepernick, 5th year option Aldon Smith, Michael Crabtree, Mike Iupati, Chris Culliver, and Bruce Miller next year with about $30 million in cap room. The 49ers drafts the past 2 years haven't been quite as good as 2010 and 2011, so the pipeline of replacement talent on rookie contracts isn't really as obvious right now. You're bound to add players through FA when you know you can let your current veterans or expiring rookie contracts walk. The 49ers don't really have that luxury right now because of the uncertainty of the 2012 and 2013 rookie classes.

Well thank you for making my point for me. Resigning our own talent takes presence over acquiring outside help. And all those players you mentioned fit the criteria for paying our own.

And I lumped you in with those other teams because outside a few hits like Hernandez and Gronk, you've failed to hit with any of your WR picks for years now. Signing LaFell this year and Amendola last year speaks to that also. CB is another area that you've guys have had to go outside the organization for starters, though Dennard did show promise early on and still may a vaulable role player. Cant forget McCourty either. Not saying your drafts have been disasters but in certain areas, you've failed to find the talent you seem to covet.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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Here we go again, it's "Dan vs. The Entire 49er Fanbase" for the 8th billionth time. Get over yourself dude.

Honestly though, negotiating in hindsight is completely worthless. And you can't just go, "I would have not signed 4 players and instead given a few more millions to get Verner." It doesn't work like that in the real world. Those players have roles to play on the team. You can't roll with a 47-man roster just because you later on found out Verner signed a deal with a different team to terms you like.

If only I had spent that extra $2 on the Powerball and bought the ticket with the winning numbers on it.
Its not me vs the entire 49ers fan base. I just dont kiss Baalke's and Harbaugh's ass after every signing/trade/etc. If I dont like or disagree with something, I speak my mind. I dont hold back.

47 man roster? Come on man. Look at the guys we acquired...Wright, Cook, Martin are not guaranteed to make the roster and if any of them dont, they have no role to play whatsoever.

Add in the draft and UDFA's and we'll have plenty of players that will fulfill roles on the team.

As for Verner, im sure that Baalke and company could have found out what was going on with him if they were interested. Sadly, they just werent interested.

My entire point though is that the team SHOULD have been interested in Verner and at least see what his contract demands were. Sadly, the 49ers rarely if ever inquire about players who they SHOULD go after. Instead, they just sign or trade for other team's garbage or crap and then everyone acts as if we just acquired gold for silver. But whatever, just have to wait and see how it all plays out.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:01 AM    (permalink
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Well that proves my point. Once the $ got to a place Baalke wasn't comfortable with, he bowed out. And the roster was very different then. We needed to acquire talent outside the organization. When Nolan and Scotty Mac was in charge, we had to shell out big money to guys like Jonas Jennings, Cowboy and Nate Clements. Even in Harabaugh's first year, we had to go out and acquire guys like Rogers and Whitner. Because we were trying to build the roster to the point where we are now. A point to where free agency would be looked at the supplement the roster, not add talent.

The reason teams like NE, Pitt, and GB are such big players in free agency recently is because their recent draft has not produced the kind of talent they were used to in previous years. That's not where you want to be. One of the main reasons us and Seattle have become elite in terms of roster talent is because we both have built our roster through the draft, with a few free agents acquisitions sprinkled in. That's the blueprint you want to keep. It keeps you out of cap hell and when you spend most your cap re-signing and extending your own talent, it builds a better locker room morale. Guys know if they play well, the organization will work to give them what their due.
The point is that the 49ers went after a guy like Johnathan Joesph in the first place. As a matter of fact, they also went after Nnamdi Asomugha too. Now I will admit things were different at that time. It was the first year of Harbaugh and Baalke working together along with the lockout being in place where free agency was condensed into like a week or something. Regardless, I feel like this organization, if they have the money, won't be afraid to go get a megastar free agent if they truly feel comfortable about that player.

And Green Bay hasn't done anything huge in free agency for a while. Including this year.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:13 AM    (permalink
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Well thank you for making my point for me. Resigning our own talent takes presence over acquiring outside help. And all those players you mentioned fit the criteria for paying our own.

Which is all well and good, but in a perfect world you would have kept up your drafting and hit on a Lamichael James type or a Jenkins/Patton type which would have made a Gore or Boldin expensive and redundant. Verner would have been a great add for your team, he's young, talented, and plays a position you're not particularly adept at. This whole concept that FA is something you don't use if you draft well is false. Free agency is something that you benefit from when you draft well because you can augment your team by adding difference makers at positions you don't have, while utilizing the cheap depth you've stockpiled elsewhere. The 2012 and 2013 drafts threaten to turn you from a young cap limber team to a team consisting of mostly veteran contracts.

The 2014 draft and 2013 redshirt players are extremely important to the future of your team. The discernible talent advantage you laid out before is going to evaporate unless your recent drafts get up to par with 2010-2012, which is a tall task because those drafts were abnormally good.

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And I lumped you in with those other teams because outside a few hits like Hernandez and Gronk, you've failed to hit with any of your WR picks for years now. Signing LaFell this year and Amendola last year speaks to that also. CB is another area that you've guys have had to go outside the organization for starters, though Dennard did show promise early on and still may a vaulable role player. Cant forget McCourty either. Not saying your drafts have been disasters but in certain areas, you've failed to find the talent you seem to covet.
I think the WR thing is a fair point, but we haven't invested a ton of draft capital there (One top 2 round pick in the last 7 years). CB was a chance to turn a strength into a bigger strength. We need it to play against Denver. Last year after Talib got hurt they spread us out, and killed us. Dennard and Ryan are good quality #2 corners, but they have #2 CB speed, and when matched up against the D. Thomas and Eric Deckers in man coverage they can be exploited. Revis (signed for one year) and Browner (1 million guaranteed in his entire contract) are 2 very low cap risk/ high on field reward pickups.

I just find it odd you're lumping us in as a team that hasn't drafted well recently, when we got 27% of our snaps from players we either drafted or as signed as an UDFA in the last 2 years.

It's because the Pats have drafted well that they're players in FA, not the other way around.

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Old 03-18-2014, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Which is all well and good, but in a perfect world you would have kept up your drafting and hit on a Lamichael James type or a Jenkins/Patton type which would have made a Gore or Boldin expensive and redundant. Verner would have been a great add for your team, he's young, talented, and plays a position you're not particularly adept at. This whole concept that FA is something you don't use if you draft well is false. Free agency is something that you benefit from when you draft well because you can augment your team by adding difference makers at positions you don't have, while utilizing the cheap depth you've stockpiled elsewhere. The 2012 and 2013 drafts threaten to turn you from a young cap limber team to a team consisting of mostly veteran contracts.

The 2014 draft and 2013 redshirt players are extremely important to the future of your team. The discernible talent advantage you laid out before is going to evaporate unless your recent drafts get up to par with 2010-2012, which is a tall task because those drafts were abnormally good.
Actually, our 2012 draft was a huge whiff. 80% of those players aren't even on the team anymore. LMJ and Looney are the lone exception. So Baalke is not immune to bad drafting as well. But he's sandwiched a outstanding draft and a very good draft around that 2012 draft. Not too mention a solid 2010 draft so I still beleive he's money, more times than he not.

Our 2013 draft will really come to light this year. Tank is healthy and I think the rest of the league will see his potential. McDonald's numbers were affected by a QB who didnt or refused to look his way much at all but the kid has tremendous talent and looks to be the real deal. Lemonier came along nicely and I see him developing to the heir apparent on the strong-side when they move away from Brooks in a year or two. I think the world knows Lattimore's potential and think he's poised to be Gore's heir apparent as well. Patton cam on late after being hurt most of the sesaon. Seems to have the makings of a solid #2 or #3 WR and susupect he will. The staff seem to be very high on Moody but with two All-Pros in front of him, his impact will be reserved for STs for the forseeable future.

But really its Baalke's ability with the UDFAs is what really keeps the cupboard full. Guys like Wihoite, TJE, Dobbs, and Morris are all young and contribute to providing key depth in certain areas. He gets more milegae out of UDFAs than most and always has a diamond in the ruff.

We got Boldin for a sixth round pick. He was the steal of last off-season. He wasn't intially brought in as some big name to put us over the top. He was seen as a nice peice to complement Crabs. It was Crabs injury that force Boldin into more of a number 1 role, along with CK force-feeding him the ball. But in no way can you compare Boldin's acquisition as some huge free agent signing. Verner seems like a solid CB but Baalke, even when he had cash to spend in free agency, is all about the low risk, high reward type of deals. Sure he went after so notable names but how many did he sign for big money? Not one.

As far as you guys, I guess its mainly the skill positions I noticed that haven't really panned out and the need to fill those positions in free agency, which wasn't Belichick's m.o. early in his Pats tenure. But he has continue to draft well at certain positions like LB so it could just be a shift in philosophy.

Its more than one way to skin a cat, so there is no one approach that sure-fire over another but Baalke has been adamant about getting to a point where not needing to be major players in free agency. And I believe we're at that point. I don't think ANY organization wants to shell huge deal's in free agency. Its a means to a end but more times than not, its the result for not finding that type of talent through their own channels. Every move and extension has repercussions, and moves that follow. I don't Baalke would have felt compelled to sign Bethea if CJ Spillman had developed into the player they thought when they gave him that bridge-type of extension after the 2011 season. Same kind of deal we gave both Boone and Ian Williams and both stepped up their play and became starters. But he's still mainly a STs maven and package specific player. So we had to go outside of the organization to cover the loss of Whitner. But Baalke first move to address that potential need down the road was to look in-house.That's his philosophy. Its not just because he has to sign his own talent, he perfers it that way. And its not like those players are aging either. Iupati, CK, Aldon, and Miller haven't even reached their prime yet. Those guys SHOULD be priorities.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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If i was ranking our post FA needs i'd say

1. CB
2. WR
3. G/C (to compete with Kilgore and/or take over for Iupati, who i believe we'll let walk).
4. S

Then look for depth or future replacements at other positions such as TE, ILB, QB....maybe pass rusher too. We're stacked at DL and OLB but you can never have enough pass rushers.

I'm starting to think more and more that Jason Verrett will be our target in Round 1.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:18 PM    (permalink
YAYareaRB
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I just had this very argument on twitter on building a team thru the draft vs signing FAs. I feel like the last few SB teams built their teams thru the draft. Green Bay, NY, Baltimore and Seattle do have free agents that contributed, but their core of impact players is what got them to the SB.. there's no real way around that fact.

Besides, what's wrong with our roster as it stands? I feel like Brock and Cully are more than capable of starting at CB for us. We still have room to draft good DBs and we're fortunate that both the DB class and WR class are strong this year
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