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Old 03-26-2014, 06:33 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
It's about talent evaluation, not being conservative. If I thought Evans was as talented as Green I would totally agree with you...but I don't. I have no problem with Baalke moving up, just move up for the right prospect. And no rookie WR is going come in and set the world on fire in this offense. Not until the offensive philosophy changes.
I don't think he is in the A.J. Green class or Julio as that type of athlete. I do think he is in the Vincent Jackson class. Honestly I think he uses his body better than Jackson does. Also remember that Evans is a basketball player that has only been playing football for three years. The thought that his best football could still be ahead of him is scary.

He may not be a vertical threat in the sense that he has that deep speed. But his height 6'5" length 6'7" wingspan, and the fact that he has a great understanding of body position could make him that deep threat.

I saw an interview recently also saying that the offense is due for an overhaul which could mean more three receiver sets. If Evans is as good as I think he is he WILL get on the field. Also like Ness said would provide some insurance for the future, with Boldin nearing the end, and Crabtree no sure bet to return.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he is in the A.J. Green class or Julio as that type of athlete. I do think he is in the Vincent Jackson class. Honestly I think he uses his body better than Jackson does. Also remember that Evans is a basketball player that has only been playing football for three years. The thought that his best football could still be ahead of him is scary.

He may not be a vertical threat in the sense that he has that deep speed. But his height 6'5" length 6'7" wingspan, and the fact that he has a great understanding of body position could make him that deep threat.

I saw an interview recently also saying that the offense is due for an overhaul which could mean more three receiver sets. If Evans is as good as I think he is he WILL get on the field. Also like Ness said would provide some insurance for the future, with Boldin nearing the end, and Crabtree no sure bet to return.
Valid points. But I just feel WR is a huge crapshoot. And I rather take the value approach over moving up and taking a guy I think has big bust potential personally. Some times I think the talent warrants it. Other times, not so much. I just don't see it in this class. But I'm also of the mindset that our putrid passing game is more a by product of scheme and QB issues than the lack of talent at WR so maybe that's why I view things as I do.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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Valid points. But I just feel WR is a huge crapshoot. And I rather take the value approach over moving up and taking a guy I think has big bust potential personally. Some times I think the talent warrants it. Other times, not so much. I just don't see it in this class. But I'm also of the mindset that our putrid passing game is more a by product of scheme and QB issues than the lack of talent at WR so maybe that's why I view things as I do.
Could be there is no doubt the offense at times last year was painful to watch. With the amount of talent the Niners have on offense, and the all the different skill sets you could come out and run a different offense every series. Very painful to watch how underused everything was hopefully that is something that they correct next year.

I definitely understand your concern about drafting a WR especially trading up for one. It doesn't help that the Niners have seemed to have a blind spot drafting that position for a while now.

The opposite of that is why I am not crazy about them taking a corner early. Baalke has proven that he can find corners anywhere in the draft or as UDFA's.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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Old 03-26-2014, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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One of the other WR's I liked on film was Paul Richardson from Colorado. Very good speed nice ball skills. Oregon couldn't cover him in the game I saw.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Moncrief looks like DHB all over to me. Big athletic, but doesn't have natural hands and body catches everything.
You know who else was big and athletic and body caught everything in college?

Vernon Davis.

It's a skill that can be developed. His ability to toast NFL caliber DBs his entire career in the SEC isn't a learned trait.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:35 AM    (permalink
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One of the other WR's I liked on film was Paul Richardson from Colorado. Very good speed nice ball skills. Oregon couldn't cover him in the game I saw.
I agree though his frail frame scares the hell out of me. He's smaller than AJ Jenkins was...by at least 10 pounds
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:50 AM    (permalink
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You know who else was big and athletic and body caught everything in college?

Vernon Davis.

It's a skill that can be developed. His ability to toast NFL caliber DBs his entire career in the SEC isn't a learned trait.
I swear we're like twins sometimes, I was gonna say the EXACT same thing. Moncreif is the one guy I really want at WR. He has the size AND the speed to go toe to toe with young CBs in our division. He's not just tall, he's tall, big, and quick...rare combo.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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You know who else was big and athletic and body caught everything in college?

Vernon Davis.

It's a skill that can be developed. His ability to toast NFL caliber DBs his entire career in the SEC isn't a learned trait.
The Davis comparison I don't think is accurate. Vernon didn't body catch he just didn't have natural hands. He looked like he was almost too aggressive going after the ball, and needed to receive it softer. Moncrief doesn't even do that. Every game I watched it looked like he body trapped it. That's something you can try and work on, but if you don't "have it" you're only going to get so far.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I agree though his frail frame scares the hell out of me. He's smaller than AJ Jenkins was...by at least 10 pounds
Hopefully he works harder and is tougher than AJ.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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So how long will Culliver be a 49er after this **** up?

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San Francisco 49ers cornerback Chris Culliver faces five charges after an alleged hit-and-run incident Friday in San Jose, Calif. He's charged with felony hit and run, felony reckless driving with injury, felony possession of brass knuckles, misdemeanor hit and run and misdemeanor driving on a suspended license. He was booked into the Santa Clara County Jail.

"The 49ers organization is aware of the recent matter involving Chris Culliver," the team said in a statement. "We will remain in contact with Chris and the local authorities as we continue to gather the facts regarding this situation. As this is an ongoing legal matter, we will reserve further comment at this time."

Culliver struck a bicyclist around 10:21 a.m. PT and then fled the scene, according to the San Jose Police Department. Culliver's vehicle, a white Ford Mustang, was then blocked by a witness, before Culliver's car struck the witness' vehicle, per the police report. However, the witness' vehicle was able to block Culliver on a nearby street and waited for police to arrive.

Police said brass knuckles were found in Culliver's car during a search. The victim suffered minor non-life threatening injuries and was released at the scene
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...ed-hit-and-run
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Cully! What an idiot. He was really doing better, too. Making strides within the community after his Super Bowl ignorance last year. Hope it's not as bad as it looks, but it looks bad.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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well damn there goes another good defensive player. I guess were drafting cb round one eh guys.
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Tarell Brown must be laughing his ass off
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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The Davis comparison I don't think is accurate. Vernon didn't body catch he just didn't have natural hands. He looked like he was almost too aggressive going after the ball, and needed to receive it softer. Moncrief doesn't even do that. Every game I watched it looked like he body trapped it. That's something you can try and work on, but if you don't "have it" you're only going to get so far.
7 years of NFL Juggs machine work and VD still jumps to catch the ball with his forearms and elbows.

He is a terrible hands catcher. But can catch with his hands.

I see Moncrief similarly. Having natural hands is an amazing thing but I (and I could be alone) think its overrated if you can just catch period.
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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7 years of NFL Juggs machine work and VD still jumps to catch the ball with his forearms and elbows.

He is a terrible hands catcher. But can catch with his hands.

I see Moncrief similarly. Having natural hands is an amazing thing but I (and I could be alone) think its overrated if you can just catch period.
Nothing's impossible and it can be done, but I'd rather take my chances that can catch consistently with their hands. You think the ability to catch period as a wide receiver is overrated?
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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Old 03-29-2014, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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Cully! What an idiot. He was really doing better, too. Making strides within the community after his Super Bowl ignorance last year. Hope it's not as bad as it looks, but it looks bad.
I always thought his activism within the gay community was just a bunch of hogwash provided by the 49ers to help save face. Sure he probably got "involved", but was his heart really in it? Or was he just trying to repair his reputation at the time? I highly doubt he's magically changed the way he truly feels in that regard.

Doesn't matter. He won't be with us very much longer at this rate.
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Nothing's impossible and it can be done, but I'd rather take my chances that can catch consistently with their hands. You think the ability to catch period as a wide receiver is overrated?
No. I think being a natural "hands" catcher is overrated if you can catch.

It's not overrated when a player has a bad catch %

But if you catch everything thrown your way without "natural hands" then it's overrated.

Jon Baldwin is a natural hands catcher. He struggles catching the ball at times in the NFL and can't get open. Moncrief isn't natural hands but he catches everything thrown his way and creates separation regularly against NFL caliber DBs.

I completely get your hesitance on Moncrief but I think very highly of him.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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I always thought his activism within the gay community was just a bunch of hogwash provided by the 49ers to help save face. Sure he probably got "involved", but was his heart really in it? Or was he just trying to repair his reputation at the time? I highly doubt he's magically changed the way he truly feels in that regard.

Doesn't matter. He won't be with us very much longer at this rate.
Its not his work with the gay community, just his work off the field period. I read San Jose just gave him a humanitarian award for his work against animal cruelty/dogfighting. He's never been in any real trouble before. He just made a very bad decision. It happens. Not like he's beating his finacee in casinos or anything.

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Old 03-29-2014, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
Nothing's impossible and it can be done, but I'd rather take my chances that can catch consistently with their hands. You think the ability to catch period as a wide receiver is overrated?
VD is not a natural hands catcher. Doesn't stop him from being a match-up nightmare for every team he faces. And when's the last time you saw VD drop a critical pass or a potential big play because of his lack of natural hands? We actually won a very important playoff game with those "non-natural" hands of his. Its overated to a degree. Just catch it. I don't care how you do it, just do it. You can't teach what Moncrief has from a traingle numbers perspective. He's a smoother version of Cordarelle Patterson to me. That's excatly what this offense needs. If we can come away with either ODB or Moncreif, I'll be happy.

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Old 03-29-2014, 11:54 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
VD is not a natural hands catcher. Doesn't stop him from being a match-up nightmare for every team he faces. And when's the last time you saw VD drop a critical pass or a potential big play because of his lack of natural hands? We actually won a very important playoff game with those "non-natural" hands of his. Its overated to a degree. Just catch it. I don't care how you do it, just do it. You can't teach what Moncrief has from a traingle numbers perspective. He's a smoother version of Cordarelle Patterson to me. That's excatly what this offense needs.
Vernon does not have natural hands but he does catch with his hands. I saw Moncrief body catch everything in the games of him I watched. You won't be able to make contested catches consistently if you can't catch with your hands. There is not an elite receiver or even a high level number one that is NOT a hands catcher. T.O. Did not have natural hands but was still a hands catcher and had a great career. Body catchers don't last. When I see Moncrief I see DHB, Troy Williamson. Patterson I was not sold on either but gave him a little bit more of a pass because of how electric he is with the ball in his hands in every phase of the game. I don't see that out of Moncrief.

Another I don't understand is people are worried about trading up for a receiver like Evans. However some of you would be comfortable taking a guy like Moncrief who needs more development who would be coming into an organization that has repeatedly failed in developing receivers?
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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Old 03-30-2014, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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Its not his work with the gay community, just his work off the field period. I read San Jose just gave him a humanitarian award for his work against animal cruelty/dogfighting. He's never been in any real trouble before. He just made a very bad decision. It happens. Not like he's beating his finacee in casinos or anything.
He made several bad decisions and has just displayed a real lack of common sense. If he was a practice squad guy he'd be cut by not.
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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Regarding WR.....we should just sign DeSean Jackson.

Just imagine Kaepernick, Crabtree, Jackson, Boldin and Davis. Must admit that puts a smile on my face.

Since thats highly unlikely though, im hoping for Marqise Lee in the first round. And has anyone seen Brandon Coleman play? Guy is huge at 6'6 230.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
Vernon does not have natural hands but he does catch with his hands. I saw Moncrief body catch everything in the games of him I watched. You won't be able to make contested catches consistently if you can't catch with your hands. There is not an elite receiver or even a high level number one that is NOT a hands catcher. T.O. Did not have natural hands but was still a hands catcher and had a great career. Body catchers don't last. When I see Moncrief I see DHB, Troy Williamson. Patterson I was not sold on either but gave him a little bit more of a pass because of how electric he is with the ball in his hands in every phase of the game. I don't see that out of Moncrief.

Another I don't understand is people are worried about trading up for a receiver like Evans. However some of you would be comfortable taking a guy like Moncrief who needs more development who would be coming into an organization that has repeatedly failed in developing receivers?
How does Moncrief need more development than Evans? That's a very debatable statement. Moncreif has concentration issues like most guys who get by with being bigger and faster than the opposition in college. But there's is nothing Evans does particularly better than Moncrief at this point except high-point the ball. And Moncrief is no slouch in that area either.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
He made several bad decisions and has just displayed a real lack of common sense. If he was a practice squad guy he'd be cut by not.
Englighten me on these several bad decisions. He came out and said what most football players have been saying for years. Was it political correct? No. But I have heard that same sentiment from several pro athelets and just athletes in general. Media took it and ran with it but he's not the first person to express those feelings from a locker room perspective. Other than that, I don't recall him getting into any trouble off the field.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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Don't see much body catching. Like I said, some lapses in concentration but not particularly bad hands.....




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