The 2010 Cowboys Draft Thread - Page 46

D-Unit · 01-28-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

My top 6 CB Evaluation....all I have to say is damn it's stacked.

Joe Haden, Florida - top 10 pick we won't have a shot
Donovan Warren, Michigan - My favorite corner...but doesn't have return value and would cost a first.
Brandon Ghee, Wake Forest - A guy I absolutely love, however doesn't offer value in the return game which is important for any corner we draft I think. He could be one of the fastest corners at the combine. Unfortunetly he'll probably cost a first to land also.
Perrish Cox, Oklahoma State - Pretty much a tossup with these next two. Cox is a bit more green than Wilson. However I think Cox isn't that far behind and has the higher upside. He makes a ton of sense if he's on the board in the 2nd when we pick.
Kyle Wilson, Boise State - He has been dominant at the senior bowl this year and is a great punt returner. Pairing him up in the future with Scandrick would be a fun connection. This is also a great fit for us.
Devin McCourty, Rutgers - He has quietly had a nice senior bowl week. While I think the talent dropoff between him and the other 5 is a lot...he is clearly the 6th best corner and the talent drop off after him is pretty big. He also doesn't add value as a return man...but he is a very good special teamer.

Interesting order. I like what you're doing with these position rankings. I wish more posters did it. I like the order. My only question is Ghee. He's one of those guys that I never got a thing for. He hasn't been having a good week and I think that's a telling sign. Personally, I don't want him for the Cowboys.

Here's my go at it.

First Round

1. Donovan Warren - I think he's a gem who has unlimited upside and a high floor. Knows how to work on an island. Love his fluid hips, recognition, physicality, but would've liked to see more playmaking. Great prospect, but not an elite prospect.

2. Joe Haden - I know most have him ranked #1, but I've seen him toasted at times. Way too inconsistent for my liking. But his highlight reel is amazing. He makes plays that make you salivate.

3. Kyle Wilson - Has been the talk of the town this week. Emerging as a legit first round CB. He won't be an option for us in Round 2 now.

Second Round

4. Perrish Cox - Favorite CB, even though he may not be the best CB. I love his game and it speaks for it self. Defends passes, but has the ability to INT passes. Amazing body control and use of hands.

5. Kareem Jackson - Probably the most consistent shutdown CB, but he's just a junior. Not sure if his weaknesses have been completely understood yet. Can't complain about his on field performance, though tough to tell being surrounded by such a talented cast.

6. Amari Spievey - Spievey is a crafty CB who has deceptive recover ability and quick twitch movement. If he's there in Round 2, we have to take a good look.

7. Patrick Robinson - His pure corner skills are among the best, but his recognition and instincts need help. The smarter he gets, the better he'll be. He's also not as physical as I'd like to see.

Third Round

8. Devin McCourty - Honestly, don't know much about him. But he's been having a pretty good week in the Senior Bowl and Rutgers has been producing quality NFL talent of late.

9. Brandon Ghee - This is the round where I'd start to consider Ghee. He had a good season, so that's worth merit.

10. Dominique Franks - I think he's got more work to do on his game before he can be relied upon. He thinks he's better than he is.

Macarthur · 01-28-2010, 05:25 PM

I know Cox returned kicks, but did he return punts, too?

thule · 01-28-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macarthur

I know Cox returned kicks, but did he return punts, too?

Yes averaged 10.4

JoeyHeisman · 01-28-2010, 08:41 PM

FWIW guys, I've seen every game of Kareem Jackson and Javier Arenas' careers, and I've always been more impressed with Javy. Granted, he didn't start playing a major role in the secondary until last year, he's ALWAYS been a playmaker in the secondary when he got significant time.

As far as Jackson is concerned, he spent a year at prep school before enrolling at Bama, so he's the same age as a 4th year senior. Ironically enough, all things considered, I thought Kareem Jackson's best year was his freshman year. He was awesome then. He definitely fell off his sophomore year, and as far as this past year, he was either hit or miss. He got burnt soooooo many times on deep balls. He falls for double moves a whole lot. He's a really physical corner, but so much that it might hurt him in the NFL because of how refs call ticky-tack interference calls. Jackson has a lot of potential though, with his size and strength, and since we don't need to have a starter right away, he might be worth taking and developing. But again, his inconsistent play really worries me.

Also D, where have you heard Brandon Ghee hasn't been having a good Senior Bowl week? I've read he's been tearing it up, and personally, I'd love to have him. I actually know a guy, had a class with him a year or so ago, that is undoubtedly the biggest Wake Forest fan I've ever met. So I'll ask him about Ghee, as well as Boo Robinson, somebody else we might could use on our team.

JoeyHeisman · 01-28-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macarthur

I know Cox returned kicks, but did he return punts, too?

I know he did his freshman year, I saw him play in person against Baylor. One of my best friends is a senior at OSU, seen Perrish play his entire career, so I'll ask him how long Perrish has returned punts.

E-Man · 01-28-2010, 09:17 PM

I don't see why they should go corner early. Newman will probably stay again, and Scandrick has starting potential. Whoever gets drafted at CB would be the number 3 guy at best, so I wouldn't use a high pick unless it's BPA. I would rather them take a guy in the middle rounds at CB with some punt return ability who could be a good nickel and dime guy down the road.

D-Unit · 01-28-2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyHeisman

FWIW guys, I've seen every game of Kareem Jackson and Javier Arenas' careers, and I've always been more impressed with Javy. Granted, he didn't start playing a major role in the secondary until last year, he's ALWAYS been a playmaker in the secondary when he got significant time.

As far as Jackson is concerned, he spent a year at prep school before enrolling at Bama, so he's the same age as a 4th year senior. Ironically enough, all things considered, I thought Kareem Jackson's best year was his freshman year. He was awesome then. He definitely fell off his sophomore year, and as far as this past year, he was either hit or miss. He got burnt soooooo many times on deep balls. He falls for double moves a whole lot. He's a really physical corner, but so much that it might hurt him in the NFL because of how refs call ticky-tack interference calls. Jackson has a lot of potential though, with his size and strength, and since we don't need to have a starter right away, he might be worth taking and developing. But again, his inconsistent play really worries me.

Also D, where have you heard Brandon Ghee hasn't been having a good Senior Bowl week? I've read he's been tearing it up, and personally, I'd love to have him. I actually know a guy, had a class with him a year or so ago, that is undoubtedly the biggest Wake Forest fan I've ever met. So I'll ask him about Ghee, as well as Boo Robinson, somebody else we might could use on our team.

Hey I really appreciate that info.

I think I read that stuff about Ghee on ESPN Insider. Can't recall for sure though. I have been reading so many different sources, it's hard to remember.

edit: Got it from NFP.

"Another guy who has failed to impress is Wake Forest cornerback Brandon Ghee. Ghee is a good-looking defensive back, but he isn’t flexible in his drop, struggles to keep his pad level down in coverage and has a tendency to open up prematurely. He has not faired well in man coverage this week."

CBSSports:

"CB Brandon Ghee, Wake Forest: A physical defender with rare straight-line speed, Ghee certainly looks the part. But he was too often satisfied with allowing receivers to make the uncontested grab in front of him. "

D-Unit · 01-28-2010, 10:12 PM

Interesting note on Houston from NFP.

"Another guy who has failed to impress is Texas DT Lamarr Houston, who lacks ideal size and isn’t overly explosive off the ball. He’s really struggled generating much push on his bull-rush and doesn’t use his hands well enough to disengage from blocks and get after the ball. Houston routinely struggled to get off the snap count on time Wednesday and looks like a guy who was simply able to beat up on bad competition in the Big 12."

...and Dan Williams

" It’s obvious when watching Tennessee defensive tackle Dan Williams that the man is one powerful individual. He’s consistently able to overwhelm opposing linemen on contact and generates a great deal of power from his lower half. However, he hasn’t quite had the type of week many expected. He’s not a guy who is overly explosive off the snap and doesn’t do a good job using his hands to disengage from blocks inside. I’m not saying that there isn’t a place for him in the NFL, but I don’t think he’s worthy of being graded out as an impact-caliber defensive lineman."

D-Unit · 01-28-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E-Man

I don't see why they should go corner early. Newman will probably stay again, and Scandrick has starting potential. Whoever gets drafted at CB would be the number 3 guy at best, so I wouldn't use a high pick unless it's BPA. I would rather them take a guy in the middle rounds at CB with some punt return ability who could be a good nickel and dime guy down the road.

Nah. That sounds like someone who doesn't have much upside. A player with limitations. Even as a backup for the current picture (with Newman in it), you still want a guy with the potential to be a starter down the line. You don't usually find those in the mid rounds. CB is a position that you are best served addressing in the first 2 rounds or FA/Trade. If you hit anything outside of that, you're banking on luck.

Staubach12 · 01-28-2010, 10:51 PM

I haven't really been able to watch and scout this year as much as I'd like, but here's what I'd like to see:

1. Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida
He may be available here and if he is, I will be furious if we pass on him. He has fantastic instincts and he can take a year or two to learn and then step in and lead this defense.

2. Jared Odrick, DE, Penn St
He played tackle at State, but he's be a good 3-4 DE. His style of play will fit the penetration-based Phillips defense better than Marcus Spears with time IMO.

3. Reshad Jones, S, Georgia
This might be dreamin' a little bit, but this safety class has just gotten stronger and stonger, so his stock has been dropping. However, he's a playmaker. I like him.

4. Ciron Black, OT, LSU
He's the kind of player that could play RT and both guard positions, his versatility can cover some of our depth problems.

6. Rahim Alem, DE/OLB, LSU
This guy isn't the most athletic player, but he's a great pass rusher and an energetic player. He'd play OLB for us, one more good pass rusher for our arsenal.

7. BPA

D-Unit · 01-28-2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staubach12

I haven't really been able to watch and scout this year as much as I'd like, but here's what I'd like to see:

1. Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida
He may be available here and if he is, I will be furious if we pass on him. He has fantastic instincts and he can take a year or two to learn and then step in and lead this defense.

2. Jared Odrick, DE, Penn St
He played tackle at State, but he's be a good 3-4 DE. His style of play will fit the penetration-based Phillips defense better than Marcus Spears with time IMO.

3. Reshad Jones, S, Georgia
This might be dreamin' a little bit, but this safety class has just gotten stronger and stonger, so his stock has been dropping. However, he's a playmaker. I like him.

4. Ciron Black, OT, LSU
He's the kind of player that could play RT and both guard positions, his versatility can cover some of our depth problems.

6. Rahim Alem, DE/OLB, LSU
This guy isn't the most athletic player, but he's a great pass rusher and an energetic player. He'd play OLB for us, one more good pass rusher for our arsenal.

7. BPA

Odrick has played himself out of our reach. Maybe even out of our reach in Round 1. Ironically though... you could probably get Spikes in Round 2.

Black as a guard is a good idea. He's had positive reviews from playing OG this week.

clay_allison · 01-28-2010, 11:16 PM

If we got Spikes in round two I'd be pumped. Brooking can't be great forever. Carpenter sure isn't the answer.

JoeyHeisman · 01-28-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Hey I really appreciate that info.

I think I read that stuff about Ghee on ESPN Insider. Can't recall for sure though. I have been reading so many different sources, it's hard to remember.

edit: Got it from NFP.

"Another guy who has failed to impress is Wake Forest cornerback Brandon Ghee. Ghee is a good-looking defensive back, but he isn’t flexible in his drop, struggles to keep his pad level down in coverage and has a tendency to open up prematurely. He has not faired well in man coverage this week."

CBSSports:

"CB Brandon Ghee, Wake Forest: A physical defender with rare straight-line speed, Ghee certainly looks the part. But he was too often satisfied with allowing receivers to make the uncontested grab in front of him. "

Fair enough. Reason I asked about Ghee is because of this right here....

Per Walter Football

"Wake Forest's Brandon Ghee looked solid. He dominated receivers on deep routes because he can turn and run with anybody here. I want to see how he performs against Clemson's Jacoby Ford who will run in the 4.40 range. Ghee needs to make plays tomorrow if he wants to end up in the late first round."

"One player who really impressed me today was Wake Forest's Brandon Ghee. Clemson's Jacoby Ford is the fastest receiver here (sub 4.40 time) and Ghee was step for step with Ford on a go route and had a beautiful pass break-up. These are the same plays I saw on tape. Ghee didn't see many balls thrown his way this past year at Wake Forest, but when given the chance, he made some plays in Tuesday's practice. "

"Remember whom I have been hyping up for the past two months in this corner class? Yes, Brandon Ghee from Wake Forest had an amazing practice today. Who has him the highest on their board on the Internet? Yours truly in my Top 25 and as my No. 3 CB in the 2010 NFL Draft. Ghee showed very good athleticism and excellent closing speed. He broke up several passes, and simply made a name for himself today amongst the scouts and coaches in attendance. I hope he's flying up boards after this week, but you never know. I think if Ghee can get with a good defensive backs coach to perfect his technique he could be a star."

Needless to say, somebody on one of these sites doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

D-Unit · 01-29-2010, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyHeisman

Fair enough. Reason I asked about Ghee is because of this right here....

Per Walter Football

"Wake Forest's Brandon Ghee looked solid. He dominated receivers on deep routes because he can turn and run with anybody here. I want to see how he performs against Clemson's Jacoby Ford who will run in the 4.40 range. Ghee needs to make plays tomorrow if he wants to end up in the late first round."

"One player who really impressed me today was Wake Forest's Brandon Ghee. Clemson's Jacoby Ford is the fastest receiver here (sub 4.40 time) and Ghee was step for step with Ford on a go route and had a beautiful pass break-up. These are the same plays I saw on tape. Ghee didn't see many balls thrown his way this past year at Wake Forest, but when given the chance, he made some plays in Tuesday's practice. "

"Remember whom I have been hyping up for the past two months in this corner class? Yes, Brandon Ghee from Wake Forest had an amazing practice today. Who has him the highest on their board on the Internet? Yours truly in my Top 25 and as my No. 3 CB in the 2010 NFL Draft. Ghee showed very good athleticism and excellent closing speed. He broke up several passes, and simply made a name for himself today amongst the scouts and coaches in attendance. I hope he's flying up boards after this week, but you never know. I think if Ghee can get with a good defensive backs coach to perfect his technique he could be a star."

Needless to say, somebody on one of these sites doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

The fact that he openly admitted that he has been hyping Ghee up for the last month is a bit of a warning sign to me.

I'm sure Ghee has probably had some nice moments this week, but maybe the complete truth is a bit more humbling.

thule · 01-29-2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

The fact that he openly admitted that he has been hyping Ghee up for the last month is a bit of a warning sign to me.

I'm sure Ghee has probably had some nice moments this week, but maybe the complete truth is a bit more humbling.

WF than went on to say this after day 4.

"Wake Forest corner Brandon Ghee had a great close on Clemson's Jacoby Ford and broke up the pass, but Ghee was a little inconsistent. I'm moving Kyle Wilson up to my No. 3 corner spot and moving Ghee down to No. 4, but maintaining a similar grade. I loved another play by Ghee later on where he went up high showing off his vertical to break up the play. I think Ghee moved up a lot of boards this week from the scouts who doubted him a little. "

There is probably a little bias...but he is going to test well. He is a lock at being in the top 5 corners selected. He has the highest ceiling of anyone in this class. I love the Jonathan Joseph comparison. I just wish we knew if he could return punts.

thule · 01-29-2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E-Man

I don't see why they should go corner early. Newman will probably stay again, and Scandrick has starting potential. Whoever gets drafted at CB would be the number 3 guy at best, so I wouldn't use a high pick unless it's BPA. I would rather them take a guy in the middle rounds at CB with some punt return ability who could be a good nickel and dime guy down the road.

The key with going corner early as D said is that the value at the position drops off so dramatically once the top tiers are drafted. Do you really want another courtney brown? You draft them early...however I think a key thing to look for this year is return ability. If we can find a dynamic returner to groom as our future LCB we are in great shape. Scandrick is a nickel guy...I don't ever see him moving outside unless forced to with an injury.

thule · 01-29-2010, 09:07 AM

Another thing to note.

Dallas we seen talking to Chris Cook, FS, Virginia. It was reported on dmn or btb. He is a guy who can also play corner and if I'm not mistaken spent most of his time at the senior bowl at cb...his stock is sky high right now...6'2 with those feet is impressive. Another name to look out for...I could see him going in the 3rd.

thule · 01-29-2010, 11:09 AM

some interesting tidbits from pigskinpaul

Quote:

COACH SCHWARTZ stated emphatically that JACOBY FORD is short, but not small. he says he is surprisingly strong and battles well with DBs for the ball.

SCHWARTZ also expressed strong interest in the size/speed ratio exhibited by CB/CHRIS COOK. He sees the necessary footwork from COOK, despite his size, that should allow him to play CB in the NFL.

I'm pretty high on cook...he is right in that 7/8th spot right now. Maybe Arenas and Spivey are higher...but he is for sure top 10....I would be ok with him in the 3rd-4th round. He would be a nice piece to have against bigger WRs...we currently don't have that guy on the roster.

LonghornsLegend · 01-29-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

The key with going corner early as D said is that the value at the position drops off so dramatically once the top tiers are drafted. Do you really want another courtney brown? You draft them early...however I think a key thing to look for this year is return ability. If we can find a dynamic returner to groom as our future LCB we are in great shape. Scandrick is a nickel guy...I don't ever see him moving outside unless forced to with an injury.

Not only that, but 3 corners isn't good enough. If Newman or Jenkins gets hurt we are just like we were a few years ago, when we had Jacque Reeves as our slot DB and everyone picked on him and ate us apart. We at least need to look for a future guy to step in when Newman is gone, or if a starter gets hurt.

We would have to scale back blitzes and alot of other things we do on D if we had to support one DB who couldn't cover man to man as well as the starters. DB is definately high up on priority list for me.

LonghornsLegend · 01-29-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clay_allison

If we got Spikes in round two I'd be pumped. Brooking can't be great forever. Carpenter sure isn't the answer.

Lol, end of round 2? Spikes isn't a 3rd round talent, so we may as well look elsewhere for a Lb in those rounds.

thule · 01-29-2010, 02:59 PM

So I was trying to evaluate our draft position. Thinking if we were to move down who would be that guy the teams were moving up for. With SD picking right after us I thought hmmm....Cody makes a ton of sense for them...I can easily see a team with a need at NT moving up for him. People may call me crazy but I'm just gonna go with it today...so we can atleast play out that scenario. Just a quick look at value...pick 27 is essentially worth pick 50 and 82. That happens to be KC this year. However inbetween picks 43-53 there are 8 picks that could be used by 3-4 teams. Only SF is squared away at NT imo. Just lets say hypothetically miami moved with us.

We'd have 43/59/75/91 in the first 2 days of the draft. Now I'm not saying it's likely but I think we could do more with those picks that 27/59/91.

43- Perrish Cox, CB/KR, Oklahoma State or
59- Nate Allen, FS, South Florida
75- Alex Carrington, DE/DT, Arkansas State
91- Dexter McCluster, WR/RB, Ole Miss
4th- John Jerry, G, Ole Miss

You have 5 locks to make the team. Please tell me that doesn't sound dreamy.

D-Unit · 01-29-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

So I was trying to evaluate our draft position. Thinking if we were to move down who would be that guy the teams were moving up for. With SD picking right after us I thought hmmm....Cody makes a ton of sense for them...I can easily see a team with a need at NT moving up for him. People may call me crazy but I'm just gonna go with it today...so we can atleast play out that scenario. Just a quick look at value...pick 27 is essentially worth pick 50 and 82. That happens to be KC this year. However inbetween picks 43-53 there are 8 picks that could be used by 3-4 teams. Only SF is squared away at NT imo. Just lets say hypothetically miami moved with us.

We'd have 43/59/75/91 in the first 2 days of the draft. Now I'm not saying it's likely but I think we could do more with those picks that 27/59/91.

43- Perrish Cox, CB/KR, Oklahoma State or
59- Nate Allen, FS, South Florida
75- Alex Carrington, DE/DT, Arkansas State
91- Dexter McCluster, WR/RB, Ole Miss
4th- John Jerry, G, Ole Miss

You have 5 locks to make the team. Please tell me that doesn't sound dreamy.

That's too dreamy bro. :D But I love it, for sure! Send that into Jerry! haha.

... about Chris Cook... I dunno who he is. Sounds like he has had a good week though. What are his strengths? Weaknesses? First I heard of us linked to him was in Scott's report. Him and Garrett Graham... WTF is that about? Bennett trade on the horizon? If we can get a 2nd rounder, I'm all for it.

thule · 01-29-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

That's too dreamy bro. :D But I love it, for sure! Send that into Jerry! haha.

... about Chris Cook... I dunno who he is. Sounds like he has had a good week though. What are his strengths? Weaknesses? First I heard of us linked to him was in Scott's report. Him and Garrett Graham... WTF is that about? Bennett trade on the horizon? If we can get a 2nd rounder, I'm all for it.

Cook was all over espn yesterday when I was at BWW. He is very tall...standing 6'2...people were projecting him as a safety at the next level although he was a good corner at virginia. At the senior bowl he proved that he had the feet to play corner in the NFL. That is the big surprise...he was very smooth and stayed low in his backpedal even though he is so tall...reminds me a tad of what people were saying about DRC prior to the combine. But he's not quite in that catagory athletically. Not many corners have that type of height if any...so teams like him for that...but they are also scared away. As far as weaknesses go....he's not an elite talent...he isn'tn a 1st or 2nd round pick because he doesn't have those elite numbers...but he is worth a 3rd or 4th if you play him right.

LonghornsLegend · 01-29-2010, 06:20 PM

It's starting to get outta control with my man crush on McCluster, I'm seriously gonna be p'od if we don't get him. I hope he isn't playing himself into a 2nd rounder with a strong week but who knows.

Anyone know how he'd look as a full time PR and KR? If he could do both of those things, and be a slot WR, work in the wildcat and basically be our Percy Harvin then I think he'd be easily worth a late 2nd if we had to make sure we got him.

Guys who make a defense game plan for them, can score from anywhere on the field, and actually have some acceleration on PR, damn do I want him in Dallas!

thule · 01-29-2010, 06:34 PM

Lets put it this way...if McCluster can't return punts and kicks he isn't going to be drafted in the 2nd.