The 2010 Cowboys Draft Thread - Page 53

D-Unit · 02-11-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

Tier 1
Berry
Thomas

Tier 2
Mays
Chad Jones

Tier 3
Allen
Burnett

Tier 4
Stuckey
Reshad Jones
Rolle
Asante

Tier 5
Wright
Kam Chancellor
Chris Cook
T.J. Ward
McCarthy

Oh ok... I got really confused by your previous statement... it's why I asked.

Mine goes like:

Tier 1
Eric Berry

Tier 2
Taylor Mays
Earl Thomas

Tier 3
Reshad Jones
Chad Jones
Nate Allen
Morgan Burnett

Tier 4
Chris Cook
Robert Johnson
Larry Asante

Tier 5
Myron Rolle
Major Wright
Darrell Stuckey
T.J. Ward

Ward · 02-11-2010, 02:53 PM

Scott has us taking Thomas in the new mock. Love it.

pocketaces · 02-11-2010, 03:19 PM

I really dont see him falling that far, but I will be a happy camper if he does.:D

JoeyHeisman · 02-11-2010, 04:26 PM

What are everyone's thoughts on the possibility of taking both a free safety and strong safety? Say Earl Thomas falls to us at 27. How would it strike everyone if Myron Rolle or Reshad Jones were there at the end of the 3rd, and presented some good value?

TACKLE · 02-11-2010, 06:30 PM

How would you guys feel about Dan Williams? From what I understand you guys are in need of some depth on the D-Line. I think Williams could play NT or DE in a 3-4. I like the concept but I know Wade likes guy who can penetrate the gaps in his 3-4 but I really like what Dan Williams could offer.

D-Unit · 02-11-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

How would you guys feel about Dan Williams? From what I understand you guys are in need of some depth on the D-Line. I think Williams could play NT or DE in a 3-4. I like the concept but I know Wade likes guy who can penetrate the gaps in his 3-4 but I really like what Dan Williams could offer.

I'd like Williams if the intent was to move Ratliff to DE. I don't like Williams as a DE in this scheme.

E-Man · 02-14-2010, 10:42 PM

A guy that could turn out to be a nice find would be Leroy Vann of Floria A&M. He plays at CB, and was a great return guy in college. He is probably going to go in the later rounds, so he could address the return need in the 5th or 6th. They showed a few FAMU games on ESPNU, and he looked like he could be a good return man in the NFL. He isn't that bad of a corner either. I'm not saying that with the intent of him supplanting Jenkins, but he wouldn't make a bad fifth guy. I think he has some Devin Hester type potential. He returned five punts this season for TDs. FIVE! Jerry needs to get this guy.

LonghornsLegend · 02-15-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

How would you guys feel about Dan Williams? From what I understand you guys are in need of some depth on the D-Line. I think Williams could play NT or DE in a 3-4. I like the concept but I know Wade likes guy who can penetrate the gaps in his 3-4 but I really like what Dan Williams could offer.

Love Williams, but like D said not sure about his fit as a DE. I think he projects better as a NT, and his value is pretty high for us to be taking him and not moving Ratliff. Since I don't think that'll happen I think we would have better options at De. I don't want another Marcus Spears, just an average space taking body, it's possible to get a guy who can get after the QB and hold his own vs the run. Canty did a great job with that in his last 2 years being one of those athletic types but he was huge also, I don't think Williams offers much at DE more then Spears IMO.

Ward · 02-16-2010, 05:14 PM

Prediction: Dallas doesn't go offensive line in round 1 OR two, barring some kind of major steal available. I think even if Iupati is on the board, they pass. I think Jerry's attitude will be that healthy Colombo+Adams is starter quality in this league, and Free & Brewster represent the youth movement. I think if Brewster shows nothing next season or gets hurt again, they'll move in a different direction.

So where then? Tight end, QB, RB, and LB seem locked up. Wideout could use the talent, but too much has been invested in Roy Williams, and soon Austin as well. How do you justify throwing a 1st round receiver (not named Dez Bryant) in there? Fullback is now a need with the likely release of Anderson, but again how can you justify a first or second rounder on a fullback, especially considering how deep and versatile our tight ends are right now? That's the entire offense.

As stated, LB seems full at this point. An upgrade at ILB would be great, but there are several projects sitting behind James and Brooking. The staff seems to like both of those guys, but I think there was a quote from Jerry that stated if a horse at ILB was available, they'd take one. I kinda think that's B.S. but we shall see.

CB is interesting, because I think the team will tell us what they think of Newman depending on what they do come draft day. If there is someone talented at CB available and team passes, I will take that as a sign that they believe Newman is going to get healthy. This is also complicated by Orlando Scandrick, who seemed to regress based on my TV viewing abilities. Hurt Newman and question mark Scandrick might mean we add someone special to the mix. I would not have a problem with that at this point. I do not believe Newman will play another full season. Mark me down for Perrish Cox, please. The Big 12 is a passing league, and he also held his own as a returner.

We have all been waiting for them to take a safety since 2004. That's right - that's the season Woodson retired. I would love to know why it's taken so long. I think even an above average safety would be an upgrade at this point. Hamlin should be playing strong safety, his instincts kill us sometimes because there's no one behind him. In a perfect world we'd lose Hamlin and keep Sensabaugh around as SS, then find an Earl Thomas or Eric Berry behind him at free. This will never happen, because it would make us all too happy.

Also not happening - nose tackle. I believe the team when they say they're happy with Rat at NT. We really just need to move on from the idea, as fans. I think they pass on DE unless they're secretly pining for Dunlap or some other weird dark horse we'd never suspect.

It comes down to safety or corner, in my eyes.

D-Unit · 02-16-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward

Prediction: Dallas doesn't go offensive line in round 1 OR two, barring some kind of major steal available. I think even if Iupati is on the board, they pass. I think Jerry's attitude will be that healthy Colombo+Adams is starter quality in this league, and Free & Brewster represent the youth movement. I think if Brewster shows nothing next season or gets hurt again, they'll move in a different direction.

So where then? Tight end, QB, RB, and LB seem locked up. Wideout could use the talent, but too much has been invested in Roy Williams, and soon Austin as well. How do you justify throwing a 1st round receiver (not named Dez Bryant) in there? Fullback is now a need with the likely release of Anderson, but again how can you justify a first or second rounder on a fullback, especially considering how deep and versatile our tight ends are right now? That's the entire offense.

As stated, LB seems full at this point. An upgrade at ILB would be great, but there are several projects sitting behind James and Brooking. The staff seems to like both of those guys, but I think there was a quote from Jerry that stated if a horse at ILB was available, they'd take one. I kinda think that's B.S. but we shall see.

CB is interesting, because I think the team will tell us what they think of Newman depending on what they do come draft day. If there is someone talented at CB available and team passes, I will take that as a sign that they believe Newman is going to get healthy. This is also complicated by Orlando Scandrick, who seemed to regress based on my TV viewing abilities. Hurt Newman and question mark Scandrick might mean we add someone special to the mix. I would not have a problem with that at this point. I do not believe Newman will play another full season. Mark me down for Perrish Cox, please. The Big 12 is a passing league, and he also held his own as a returner.

We have all been waiting for them to take a safety since 2004. That's right - that's the season Woodson retired. I would love to know why it's taken so long. I think even an above average safety would be an upgrade at this point. Hamlin should be playing strong safety, his instincts kill us sometimes because there's no one behind him. In a perfect world we'd lose Hamlin and keep Sensabaugh around as SS, then find an Earl Thomas or Eric Berry behind him at free. This will never happen, because it would make us all too happy.

Also not happening - nose tackle. I believe the team when they say they're happy with Rat at NT. We really just need to move on from the idea, as fans. I think they pass on DE unless they're secretly pining for Dunlap or some other weird dark horse we'd never suspect.

It comes down to safety or corner, in my eyes.

I think that was a well thought out post.

Couple of things on my mind...

As far as WR goes... I understand the investment in Roy makes it seem like we've already got our funds locked up in him. BUT... I've mentioned this before... Roy's bonus money (the guaranteed portion of his contract) will all have been paid off by the end of next season. It was a front loaded contract. Jerry was smart about not being handcuffed by a bad contract that lasted a long time. So my thinking is.. IF Roy has another season like he had this year, then he'll be chopped liver.

IF Roy is cut then Jerry has 3 options:

1) Sign another FA WR. But why would he do that? Austin is gonna be the big cheese. Can we afford 2 high priced FA WRs? I say no.

2) Trade for another WR. Most likely that guy would have to be a proven successful commodity to please Jerry. So for the same reason above... Cost. Jerry can't go this route.

3) Draft. Now this is an affordable route. Even a first round WR is much cheaper than a FA WR because of the draft pick position being towards the later part of the round. Having 1 high priced WR (Austin) and another starting WR (draft pick), makes financial sense.

The biggest blow would be next year having Roy, Austin, 1st Rounder on the books. But if Roy doesn't earn that contract... and be realistic... who here believes he'll earn it??? ...then he'll either be forced to restructure or face being cut.

You might say.. What about the argument that "Oh Jerry spent a 1st and 3rd on WR last year. We can't spend a 1st on one this year". Well, my response to that is... Didn't we show significant interest in trying to trade up for Maclin last year? The rumor was indeed there. Was it real? Well.... it's up for interpretation. But Jerry placed that thought in my mind that drafting a 1st round WR is not totally out of the question this year, if in fact he almost did it last year.

Here's another thing... Seeing as WRs take time to develop, and Jerry definitely understands that... wouldn't the ideal situation be to draft a guy who could sit and learn for at least 1 year, while Roy is still here, before being thrown into the fire?

So for me.. and my logic, I still see WR as a potential direction to go with our first rounder. A guy like Golden Tate could be highly intriguing if still on the board. We've been looking for that deep threat guy since Terry Glenn lost his speed. I know he's not your typical burner, but his film shows that he has that ability. Randy Moss ain't fast, but he gets the job done. A big reason why, and the common thread I see between the two... Their "hands". Tate has some major sticky hands. ...and as a prior RB, the dude also has great open field vision and can withstand initial blows. I think he'd be great for us.

If we drafted Golden Tate, then we'd cross off Roy (and use his funds elsewhere), cross off WR, deep threat, dynamic threat, KR/PR. Just sayin'.

romo4prez415 · 02-16-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward

Prediction: Dallas doesn't go offensive line in round 1 OR two, barring some kind of major steal available. I think even if Iupati is on the board, they pass. I think Jerry's attitude will be that healthy Colombo+Adams is starter quality in this league, and Free & Brewster represent the youth movement. I think if Brewster shows nothing next season or gets hurt again, they'll move in a different direction.

So where then? Tight end, QB, RB, and LB seem locked up. Wideout could use the talent, but too much has been invested in Roy Williams, and soon Austin as well. How do you justify throwing a 1st round receiver (not named Dez Bryant) in there? Fullback is now a need with the likely release of Anderson, but again how can you justify a first or second rounder on a fullback, especially considering how deep and versatile our tight ends are right now? That's the entire offense.

As stated, LB seems full at this point. An upgrade at ILB would be great, but there are several projects sitting behind James and Brooking. The staff seems to like both of those guys, but I think there was a quote from Jerry that stated if a horse at ILB was available, they'd take one. I kinda think that's B.S. but we shall see.

CB is interesting, because I think the team will tell us what they think of Newman depending on what they do come draft day. If there is someone talented at CB available and team passes, I will take that as a sign that they believe Newman is going to get healthy. This is also complicated by Orlando Scandrick, who seemed to regress based on my TV viewing abilities. Hurt Newman and question mark Scandrick might mean we add someone special to the mix. I would not have a problem with that at this point. I do not believe Newman will play another full season. Mark me down for Perrish Cox, please. The Big 12 is a passing league, and he also held his own as a returner.

We have all been waiting for them to take a safety since 2004. That's right - that's the season Woodson retired. I would love to know why it's taken so long. I think even an above average safety would be an upgrade at this point. Hamlin should be playing strong safety, his instincts kill us sometimes because there's no one behind him. In a perfect world we'd lose Hamlin and keep Sensabaugh around as SS, then find an Earl Thomas or Eric Berry behind him at free. This will never happen, because it would make us all too happy.

Also not happening - nose tackle. I believe the team when they say they're happy with Rat at NT. We really just need to move on from the idea, as fans. I think they pass on DE unless they're secretly pining for Dunlap or some other weird dark horse we'd never suspect.

It comes down to safety or corner, in my eyes.

Like D-Unit said. Terrific post. I agree with the sentiment. Thats why I think there is a high possibility we trade down. In no way do I see us drafting a WR unless its a guy like Dez Bryant at pick 27. I see us looking at FS, DE, C, or NT or BPA based on our board. I think we look at Dan Williams, Jared Odrick (who I'm not a fan of), or Nate Allen, Maurkice Pouncey, or trade down. I think Jerry recognizes that Gurode isnt very Romo friendly in terms of setting protections, remembering snap counts, and the mental side of center. I'll be shocked if we do not come away with a C/G type prospect in the 1st 3 rounds.

thule · 02-17-2010, 01:45 AM

Ummm D....your logic is Jerry will draft a WR because he needs a year to learn because the progression of rookie WRs take time to develop? What happens if Roy works out....now you have a lot of money invested into your top 3 WRs and your top TE...and you have a offensive line with the average age of 33....you're crazy. Sure GMs have these thoughts in the back of their minds...but if you think Jerry is drafting a WR in the first as an insurance policy to RW I think thats crazy. This team has holes and as we all know talent depreciates as the draft goes on.

Comparing Tate to Moss....Moss has the Size/Speed/Vert/Hands...you are talking about a perfectly sculpted WR and comparing him to a RB/WR tweener with big legs and good hands. I understand the arguement...but putting those two in the same sentace is just silly. Harvin is a much better comparison and he proved to be dynamic in the NFL.

Just to finish this. I don't think you're crazy for proposing a WR to us in the first. I actually have a horrible nightmare of this happening. However I just don't like your reasoning. I think the reasoning will be more along the lines of this.

He can contribute as a returner. He's a playmaker. Good special teamer. He can stretch the field. Adds insurance and progression to the position.

That is what Jerry will say on draft day if we go that route....however thats just salesman talk.

"We can get as good of a returner later or playing CB. We already have a playmaker in Austin/Witten do we really need another WR to go along with our rushing attack...not enough balls to go around. Special teams is good...but also can find later. Stretch the field is the only thing that makes sense...I've been calling for this for 4 years. Insurance isn't something we should be drafting for...we have proven guys on the roster to get it done in the meantime...not every WR takes 3 years to develop...alot depends on when they are drafted and the role they play on the team. Austin is our #1 for the future...if RW fails...you can easily draft a guy like Eric Decker in the 3rd/4th who will be a solid #2 in the NFL and doesn't cost as much.

thule · 02-17-2010, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward

Prediction: Dallas doesn't go offensive line in round 1 OR two, barring some kind of major steal available. I think even if Iupati is on the board, they pass. I think Jerry's attitude will be that healthy Colombo+Adams is starter quality in this league, and Free & Brewster represent the youth movement. I think if Brewster shows nothing next season or gets hurt again, they'll move in a different direction.

So where then? Tight end, QB, RB, and LB seem locked up. Wideout could use the talent, but too much has been invested in Roy Williams, and soon Austin as well. How do you justify throwing a 1st round receiver (not named Dez Bryant) in there? Fullback is now a need with the likely release of Anderson, but again how can you justify a first or second rounder on a fullback, especially considering how deep and versatile our tight ends are right now? That's the entire offense.

As stated, LB seems full at this point. An upgrade at ILB would be great, but there are several projects sitting behind James and Brooking. The staff seems to like both of those guys, but I think there was a quote from Jerry that stated if a horse at ILB was available, they'd take one. I kinda think that's B.S. but we shall see.

CB is interesting, because I think the team will tell us what they think of Newman depending on what they do come draft day. If there is someone talented at CB available and team passes, I will take that as a sign that they believe Newman is going to get healthy. This is also complicated by Orlando Scandrick, who seemed to regress based on my TV viewing abilities. Hurt Newman and question mark Scandrick might mean we add someone special to the mix. I would not have a problem with that at this point. I do not believe Newman will play another full season. Mark me down for Perrish Cox, please. The Big 12 is a passing league, and he also held his own as a returner.

We have all been waiting for them to take a safety since 2004. That's right - that's the season Woodson retired. I would love to know why it's taken so long. I think even an above average safety would be an upgrade at this point. Hamlin should be playing strong safety, his instincts kill us sometimes because there's no one behind him. In a perfect world we'd lose Hamlin and keep Sensabaugh around as SS, then find an Earl Thomas or Eric Berry behind him at free. This will never happen, because it would make us all too happy.

Also not happening - nose tackle. I believe the team when they say they're happy with Rat at NT. We really just need to move on from the idea, as fans. I think they pass on DE unless they're secretly pining for Dunlap or some other weird dark horse we'd never suspect.

It comes down to safety or corner, in my eyes.

I agree with most of this post. However you cite NT as untouchable because of team statements...we are talking about the same team that has played Ratliff at DE at periods of time during the course of the last 2 training camps. It's pretty clear that Wade has been vocal that Ratliff can play either position and be effective...our problem has been that we haven't had anyone who can play the middle besides Ratliff. While i don't think it's likely...I think it definitely deserves to be in the discussion. The thing it will come down to is this.

Will Jerry draft a 2 down player in Cody...
-Personal thoughts is yes....Hampton/Pat Williams/SD Williams are all 2 down players...yet they are very important...he is that type of player to me.

Does Wade buy that Dan Williams can be a one gap player.
-I don't buy it for a second...he played in a tampa 2 that was up the field with DEs and stack and shed at Tennesse. I don't like the fit.

If in the 2nd round is the value with a guy like Cam Thomas provide enough of a difference in the middle to actually justify moving Ratliff outside.
-I'm not sold on this one either...granted I haven't watched a ton of Thomas...but he was dominant at the senior bowl against some big guys. I just think the 5-tech talent at this point will be superior and if we look to address the DL...we'd be better off picking for a more talented group.

LizardState · 02-17-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyHeisman

What are everyone's thoughts on the possibility of taking both a free safety and strong safety? Say Earl Thomas falls to us at 27. How would it strike everyone if Myron Rolle or Reshad Jones were there at the end of the 3rd, and presented some good value?

No problem taking Rolle early at all, FB family pedigree, incredible quickness & break on the ball, can sit in a bigger, faster WR's hip pocket for longer than thought humanly possible, he showed all those things at the Senior Bowl.

Bring him in as a nickelback & let him work his way into a starting job like the Jets have done with Dwight Lowery. Sooner or later Newman will have to be replaced & better to have a young veteran on the roster for it than draft a rookie & roll the dice.

Ward · 02-17-2010, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyHeisman

What are everyone's thoughts on the possibility of taking both a free safety and strong safety? Say Earl Thomas falls to us at 27. How would it strike everyone if Myron Rolle or Reshad Jones were there at the end of the 3rd, and presented some good value?

I would be crying tears of joy if our draft day looked something like

1. Earl Thomas
2. DLine project (The only scenario where I'd be happy w/ Cody is if it was NOT our 1st rounder. Would be pleased with any of the NT prospects after round 1)
3. Myron Rolle

SIGN ME UP FOR THIS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

I agree with most of this post. However you cite NT as untouchable because of team statements...we are talking about the same team that has played Ratliff at DE at periods of time during the course of the last 2 training camps. It's pretty clear that Wade has been vocal that Ratliff can play either position and be effective...our problem has been that we haven't had anyone who can play the middle besides Ratliff. While i don't think it's likely...I think it definitely deserves to be in the discussion. The thing it will come down to is this.

Will Jerry draft a 2 down player in Cody...
-Personal thoughts is yes....Hampton/Pat Williams/SD Williams are all 2 down players...yet they are very important...he is that type of player to me.

Does Wade buy that Dan Williams can be a one gap player.
-I don't buy it for a second...he played in a tampa 2 that was up the field with DEs and stack and shed at Tennesse. I don't like the fit.

If in the 2nd round is the value with a guy like Cam Thomas provide enough of a difference in the middle to actually justify moving Ratliff outside.
-I'm not sold on this one either...granted I haven't watched a ton of Thomas...but he was dominant at the senior bowl against some big guys. I just think the 5-tech talent at this point will be superior and if we look to address the DL...we'd be better off picking for a more talented group.

You know I definitely hope I'm wrong! I would love to see this team acquire that big body that would really make a difference in the run game. I think we're pretty good vs the run right now, but imagine what the geezers Brooking and James could do if they were running untouched. NT, like safety, is one of those positions that I think would send this defense over the top. Talking elite, best in the league.

Macarthur · 02-17-2010, 12:05 PM

I too think DB or DL would be the logical 'value pick' in the first. I also think we need to go WR at some point, but I will stick with my theory that WR in the first round is not a good idea.

I would like it if a guy like Campbell at OT slipped to us, but I don't see that.

I'm having a hard time right now invisioning who is goign to be sitting there for us. I think I would be okay if Earl fell in out lap, even though I'm still concerned about his slim build. I actually would like Allen in the 2nd better.

I think this first rounder is a head scratcher. THat's why I'm leaning towards what romo4prez said about us trading down.

thule · 02-17-2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LizardState

No problem taking Rolle early at all, FB family pedigree, incredible quickness & break on the ball, can sit in a bigger, faster WR's hip pocket for longer than thought humanly possible, he showed all those things at the Senior Bowl.

Bring him in as a nickelback & let him work his way into a starting job like the Jets have done with Dwight Lowery. Sooner or later Newman will have to be replaced & better to have a young veteran on the roster for it than draft a rookie & roll the dice.

Rolle will not play CB in the NFL...he didn't even play CB at FSU where most thought he never lived up to the hype as an elite prospect.

Nickelback....have you forgotten about Scandrick? Are you even a cowboys fan. How do you project Rolle to a new position...This is a crazy post...I don't understand one bit of it.

thule · 02-17-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward

I would be crying tears of joy if our draft day looked something like

1. Earl Thomas
2. DLine project (The only scenario where I'd be happy w/ Cody is if it was NOT our 1st rounder. Would be pleased with any of the NT prospects after round 1)
3. Myron Rolle

SIGN ME UP FOR THIS!

You know I definitely hope I'm wrong! I would love to see this team acquire that big body that would really make a difference in the run game. I think we're pretty good vs the run right now, but imagine what the geezers Brooking and James could do if they were running untouched. NT, like safety, is one of those positions that I think would send this defense over the top. Talking elite, best in the league.

Not sensy? I thought gerald did a great job this year...

D-Unit · 02-17-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

Ummm D....your logic is Jerry will draft a WR because he needs a year to learn because the progression of rookie WRs take time to develop? What happens if Roy works out....now you have a lot of money invested into your top 3 WRs and your top TE...and you have a offensive line with the average age of 33....you're crazy. Sure GMs have these thoughts in the back of their minds...but if you think Jerry is drafting a WR in the first as an insurance policy to RW I think thats crazy. This team has holes and as we all know talent depreciates as the draft goes on.

Comparing Tate to Moss....Moss has the Size/Speed/Vert/Hands...you are talking about a perfectly sculpted WR and comparing him to a RB/WR tweener with big legs and good hands. I understand the arguement...but putting those two in the same sentace is just silly. Harvin is a much better comparison and he proved to be dynamic in the NFL.

Just to finish this. I don't think you're crazy for proposing a WR to us in the first. I actually have a horrible nightmare of this happening. However I just don't like your reasoning. I think the reasoning will be more along the lines of this.

He can contribute as a returner. He's a playmaker. Good special teamer. He can stretch the field. Adds insurance and progression to the position.

That is what Jerry will say on draft day if we go that route....however thats just salesman talk.

"We can get as good of a returner later or playing CB. We already have a playmaker in Austin/Witten do we really need another WR to go along with our rushing attack...not enough balls to go around. Special teams is good...but also can find later. Stretch the field is the only thing that makes sense...I've been calling for this for 4 years. Insurance isn't something we should be drafting for...we have proven guys on the roster to get it done in the meantime...not every WR takes 3 years to develop...alot depends on when they are drafted and the role they play on the team. Austin is our #1 for the future...if RW fails...you can easily draft a guy like Eric Decker in the 3rd/4th who will be a solid #2 in the NFL and doesn't cost as much.

I don't know what it is thule... But you often seem to misread and overreact my posts. Maybe I need to be more clear in the future. Do you really think I compared Golden Tate to Randy Moss as if to say they are built in the same mold? I think I could deserve better than that... I mean... I met you in real life for crying out loud! haha. Also, you try to make points as if I didn't just say that.

You say my logic is "crazy" and "silly" ... Fine. But don't say that and then rephrase my points and call it your own.

You said:
"Just to finish this. I don't think you're crazy for proposing a WR to us in the first. I actually have a horrible nightmare of this happening. However I just don't like your reasoning. I think the reasoning will be more along the lines of this.

He can contribute as a returner. He's a playmaker. Good special teamer. He can stretch the field. Adds insurance and progression to the position."

I just said that! The last sentence in my post reads:
"If we drafted Golden Tate, then we'd cross off Roy (and use his funds elsewhere), cross off WR, deep threat, dynamic threat, KR/PR."

I'm going to try to be really REALLY clear.

1. I'm not saying we WILL or SHOULD draft a WR in the 1st. Ward's post was about crossing positions OFF the list. I merely made a point about WR not necessarily being one of those positions that we can cross off.

2. I'm not saying Golden Tate = Randy Moss. I think they are completely different players. I think they both display elite "hands" and both have displayed the ability to be a "deep threat" without the use of pure burning speed. ...and heck, I may be wrong... Tate may run a burning 40. But to the naked eye, he doesn't seem like your classic elite speed guy.

3. Tate could be an insurance policy for Roy... yes. BUT, that's not the MAIN reason to draft him. It's way down the list in fact. It's just another pro on the pros/cons list.

4. You said, "your logic is Jerry will draft a WR because he needs a year to learn because the progression of rookie WRs take time to develop?"

Stop. Never said Jerry "will". Never said WRs "need" time to learn.

On WRs taking 3 years to develop... I know very well that WRs develop at different rates, and that is just a thumbnail rule. Tate could very well have an impact year in his rookie year. Or it might take him much longer. I don't know.

BUT...it would be safe to draft a WR this year, give him at least a year, rather then wait for next year to draft a WR when the need is already glaring (should Roy fail). Because like I said... FA/trade for a high priced proven WR (the kind that Jerry goes for) is financially taxing.

It's not like we don't already have a need for a deep threat. You said yourself that you've been calling one for the last 4 years *cough* like you're the only one *cough haha* cough* whatevs. The whole damn media has been saying the same thing about us lacking a deep threat. It's a universal thought, and it's been that way since Terry Glenn got hurt.

I can accept drafting a deep threat later in the draft. I'm not saying the first round is the only round we can do it. I'm just saying, first round is not out of the question for consideration.

5. As for the whole... "we shouldn't draft a first round WR because the avg age of our OL is 33"...

Who says we can't address the age thing past round 1? Are you stuck on the idea that if we don't draft an OL in Round 1, then we'll just be stuck with old OL? I don't think you think that, but you keep saying it over and over. I'm starting to wonder...

6. "Not enough balls to go around".... I agree, we don't have enough balls to go around for guys who need a lot of touches to be effective. ie. Julius Jones types. Roy Williams seems to be another one of those guys who isn't satisfied with just 4 catches. I think the way it is right now, that I agree... ball distribution is a problem for selfish players or players that need a lot of touches to be effective.

However, if you can be a dynamic player ala Felix Jones who can be electric on just a few touches, then you have a great place on this team. Golden Tate is one of those guys... Dexter McCluster is one of those guys... Either of these two... if we got them... They are exactly the types that would benefit us greatly without compounding the problem of ball distribution.

7. Let me hear you say that Roy Williams is the answer and that he'll be a Cowboy past the 2010-2011 season.

I mean, you said this... "What happens if Roy works out....now you have a lot of money invested into your top 3 WRs and your top TE..."

You said it, but do you even believe your own words?

Since it's hard to know how long it will take any WR time to develop, the best time to draft one IS NOT when it has come to the point of being a glaring NEED. If you wait that long, then it's already too late.

Macarthur · 02-17-2010, 01:39 PM

I really think we have to address PR with one of our picks, whether it be a WR or DB.

Burns336 · 02-17-2010, 02:39 PM

We should all be hoping Damien Williams runs a 4.55 and falls into the 2nd. I've read he isn't going to have a great timed speed but this guy can play. Easily the best WR to come out of USC in a few years. Better than Steve Smith as a prospect.

I've already seen scouts knocking him down for having a lean frame as well... So I don't think he stands a chance in the 1st round anymore.

This guy is going to be one of those reliable guys that always seems to get open on 3rd downs. He will be a rich mans Crayton as a WR and as a PR.

Lean frame argument is crap IMO. Plenty of receivers in the league are the leanest guys on their team. Williams doesn't even appear to be as frail as a guy like Ochocinco or Desean Jackson.

I know D-Unit doesn't like him because he "basket catches" the ball, but I don't think that's an issue. Romo has experience getting the ball to a basket catcher in T.O. -- The only difference is that Williams hands are pretty good.

He run's really good routes, he'll catch the ball, he won't be expensive. He's pretty much an awesome guy to slide right into Craytons role and catch 50-60 balls a year, while also starting for us at PR.

Here's a video from this most recent season with a freshman QB

Here's a video of him dominating with the Sanchize

E-Man · 02-17-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macarthur

I really think we have to address PR with one of our picks, whether it be a WR or DB.

That's why I'm a big Leroy Vann fan. Let's face it with WR and CB. Anyone who gets drafted won't be playing at all this year, except on special teams or if there is an injury. Then if there is a spot next year to where a WR or CB would be available to get playing time, everyone will fall in love with a 2011 draft prospect while forgetting about whoever is there on the team. Vann is the perfect fit, because he really does have a ton of return talent. He could be a Dante Hall or Johnnie Knox type guy. He's returned so many punts back, and he even showed at the East-West Shrine game that he could do it at a higher level.

He'll be available in the mid rounds, so he should be the pick instead of drafting a guy early who is going to ride the bench. Barring any injuries happening, if they go WR or CB early, we'll have another Bobby Carpenter situation on our hands. He'll get snaps taken away by vets early in his career, and when a new coach comes in he'll get discarded due to that coaches own prospects coming in. Then people will be bitching about how bad Jerry drafts, and why he never should have used a pick on a guy that wasn't going to play anyway.

thule · 02-17-2010, 02:45 PM

He's pretty soft and is a body catcher. I actually don't knock guys for basket catching because it actually is taught to WRs. They are suppose to catch the ball in their body when going over the middle to brace for the impact. Thus you have a better chance of hanging onto the ball. But even just watching the skills competition he doesn't snatch the ball. He has the tools...but comes off as lackadaisical to me.

thule · 02-17-2010, 02:49 PM

D, don't take anything I say to hard...the whole interpretation of what I say over the internet is definitely not how it would always come out in person.

I may say crazy...but I don't literally mean your dilusional...just that I think it's hard for me to see....not CRAZY....it's all good.

Just to touch on a couple things. I don't think we "have" to go OL in round 1...however if we draft a WR over OL talent in the 1st round I won't be happy. We have no place drafting a WR in the 1st round....We already have our #2 WR....we have guys on the roster that can play the 2 already...and if Roy fails...well then we still have WR talent on the roster to play the 2 while a rookie can play the slot or 4 position. We don't even run a ton of 3 WR sets...so I guess I feel like Roys progession isn't a huge problem for our team.

LizardState · 02-17-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

Rolle will not play CB in the NFL...he didn't even play CB at FSU where most thought he never lived up to the hype as an elite prospect.

Nickelback....have you forgotten about Scandrick? Are you even a cowboys fan. How do you project Rolle to a new position...This is a crazy post...I don't understand one bit of it.

I wish I could forget Scandrick. I've never been a fan.

There are lots of Rolle fans here in Cowboyland, see Ward's mock draft above.

I was commenting on Rolel in the the Senior Bowl, could care less about his Free Shoes U. history. Rolle played CB in the Senior Bowl & worked out as a CB as well as safety in South squad practices.

Yes I'm a Cowboys fan, one who has forgotten more about them than a troll like you will ever remember. I'm not responsible for your ignorance of talent evaluation or of FB in general, that's what this post is, that's what draftniks do.

Once again you've over-reacted to someone else's post, you seem to have a terminal case of this disease -- develop a cure for it or find some manners & posting etiquette or you will be sanctioned. Fair warning......