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Old 05-10-2009, 11:20 PM    (permalink
dbtb135
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I have a feeling Raheem saw first hand Sabby was ready to get more playing time, the guy is built like nobody we've ever had in our secondary, he's a big fast ballhawk who's had two years to learn - and that this was a factor in the move for Flip. He's finding a way to get his best players on the field, at the same time as giving younger players a chance to show what they've got. I think it's a pretty good coaching move. Remember Flip is 30 I believe. I like the competition brewing at LB - if Crowell returns to his pre-injury form, we're completely set at MLB and SLB, with a bunch of big athletic youngsters ready to fight for a spot.

I've seen people pigeonhole Black into the SLB spot, but if Crowell plays like he can, Black won't be getting too much time there, and he's got too much upside to sit behind Crowell, so I think he's going to be in the mix for WLB too. Between him, Hayes, and Flip, I like the idea of the position battle winner starting. Hence no need for LB in the draft, since it would also go against the sentiment that Raheem expressed, namely that there are some young talents who've been languishing down the depth chart who could benefit tremendously from getting quality playing time. I think so far they've done a great job balancing evaluating and giving opportunity to those already on our roster, with putting some extra pieces in place for the future.

Couple of thoughts about our 4th and 5th rounders. Kyle Moore led USC in sacks last year, let's not forget that. And he has a big frame to grow into if he needs to. I like the idea of a rotation between him, White and Wilkerson at LE, with the added versatility of moving Moore inside on passing downs with White/Wilkerson still outside. I don't think it's horrendously inappropriate to hope for a poor man's Justin Tuck. Imagine if the light continues to stay on for our previous 4th rounder, Dre Moore - our future D-line could look like Adams, Moore, Miller, Moore/Wilkerson on 1st and 2nd down, which looks pretty good to me. Throw into the interior rotation the new bulked up Greg Peterson (~310lbs) with Dre Moore's athleticism and Kyle Moore sliding in on passing downs and White/Wilkerson keeping each other fresh rushing the passer off the edge - I like how this could look a couple years from now. Remember everyone there except for White is relatively young.

Regarding Fulton, the 5th rounder, people are kidding themselves if they think we have depth on our O-line. We've got talent, sure, but Zuttah can't play more than one position at the same time. We are spoiled with having such a talented and versatile backup as him, but there are 5 positions on the O-line, and drafting an athletic big guy in the 5th who seems to really fit the ZBS we're trying to install seems to make sense to me.
Black has been at SSLB forever it seems. I don't see why they'd move him now. Especially given that, by the time his competition with Crowell is done with, so will the weakside job most likely. If it's done much sooner, we really wouldn't be encouraged to push him for PT elsewhere.

I still don't see much in Moore, and I really don't see this talk about him being an inside rusher. Saying he could be a poor man's Tuck is laughable at this point IMO. I'm about done with Peterson. He had potential coming in, but I can't see him being much more than a depth player. Dre was a real flop coming in, out of shape at camp and pushed around in pre-season. But I like what I'm hearing about him lately. He's got all the god-given skill and even showed flashes last year. Hopefully he can become our inside rush. But the thing is, I think we're drafting a DL high next year, so the line should see a shake-up.

We usually only keep 8 linemen on the roster. What would pass for good depth? Three young, starting caliber players? Go look at what other teams have or what we have at the other parts on the roster. We've got depth there, I don't think thats a big limb to go out on.
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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Let's also not forget that he benefited tremendously from USC's blitzing LBs. Almost all of his sacks are covered on DraftParty's highlight video and he's usually unblocked or tackling the QB in pursuit. He doesn't beat his man 1on1 often in game situations.
Maybe so, but doesn't Bates run an aggressive defence in terms of blitzes etc?
I guess we moved up in the draft to get Moore for a reason?
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:32 AM    (permalink
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Black has been at SSLB forever it seems. I don't see why they'd move him now. Especially given that, by the time his competition with Crowell is done with, so will the weakside job most likely. If it's done much sooner, we really wouldn't be encouraged to push him for PT elsewhere.

I still don't see much in Moore, and I really don't see this talk about him being an inside rusher. Saying he could be a poor man's Tuck is laughable at this point IMO. I'm about done with Peterson. He had potential coming in, but I can't see him being much more than a depth player. Dre was a real flop coming in, out of shape at camp and pushed around in pre-season. But I like what I'm hearing about him lately. He's got all the god-given skill and even showed flashes last year. Hopefully he can become our inside rush. But the thing is, I think we're drafting a DL high next year, so the line should see a shake-up.

We usually only keep 8 linemen on the roster. What would pass for good depth? Three young, starting caliber players? Go look at what other teams have or what we have at the other parts on the roster. We've got depth there, I don't think thats a big limb to go out on.
All I was saying about Black was that he's too talented physically to limit trying him at one spot. There's nothing stopping them from trying him at WLB at the same time, simply because if Crowell plays like he can he's the clear cut starter and it would be a shame to deny Black PT because he has another Pro-Bowler in front of him.

Regarding Kyle Moore, I said the ideal situation would be him developing into a poor man's Justin Tuck, in terms of how we use him. He's got the size and frame for it, and by all accounts he's a hard worker with a chip on his shoulder about how many USC players went ahead of him, which is usually a good combination. I'm not predicting anything at all, just fantasising a bit. Regarding Peterson and Dre Moore, the point is simply that we've got a good rotation going if they both keep their heads on.

With the O-line, my point was that outside of Zuttah we didn't have much in terms of servicable back ups. I think there's a James Lee or something backing up at LT, but that's still only two and I haven't heard much about him. Adding Fulton who fits our scheme well as an athletic 300-pounder improves our quality of depth significantly, if nothing else. Although he's relatively new to the position so has upside too.
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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All I was saying about Black was that he's too talented physically to limit trying him at one spot. There's nothing stopping them from trying him at WLB at the same time, simply because if Crowell plays like he can he's the clear cut starter and it would be a shame to deny Black PT because he has another Pro-Bowler in front of him.

Regarding Kyle Moore, I said the ideal situation would be him developing into a poor man's Justin Tuck, in terms of how we use him. He's got the size and frame for it, and by all accounts he's a hard worker with a chip on his shoulder about how many USC players went ahead of him, which is usually a good combination. I'm not predicting anything at all, just fantasising a bit. Regarding Peterson and Dre Moore, the point is simply that we've got a good rotation going if they both keep their heads on.

With the O-line, my point was that outside of Zuttah we didn't have much in terms of servicable back ups. I think there's a James Lee or something backing up at LT, but that's still only two and I haven't heard much about him. Adding Fulton who fits our scheme well as an athletic 300-pounder improves our quality of depth significantly, if nothing else. Although he's relatively new to the position so has upside too.
How do you see him getting reps at WSLB when he's in a competition with Crowell? Especially knowing they're going to give Flip a ton to see where he's at and get him more comfortable. You don't win camp competitons by not playing the position. Right now, he's in a fight with Crowell, who to my knowledge has never made a Pro Bowl.

Tuck had great quickness, technique, and production coming out of college. He added a ton of muscle and now he's hard to stop at either position. I don't see what in there Moore brings thats comparable at all. Tuck was a stud rusher at ND. Tuck was way more athletic. Until Moore bulks up his MM, or becomes a pass rusherat ANY position, much less multiple positions, the Tuck dreams should be kept quiet. I think Moore can improve our crappy rotation, but Greg Peterson strikes me as the defnititon of league average player. I don't see him in the NFL much longer.

We've still got Sean Mahan and his decent sized contract at center....and nobody else. So him and Zuttah are pretty much guaranteed spots So Fulton is going to have to beat out Lee and Alibi, who I think is also solid. It's an uphill battle for him, I'm predicting PS.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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How do you see him getting reps at WSLB when he's in a competition with Crowell? Especially knowing they're going to give Flip a ton to see where he's at and get him more comfortable. You don't win camp competitons by not playing the position. Right now, he's in a fight with Crowell, who to my knowledge has never made a Pro Bowl.

Tuck had great quickness, technique, and production coming out of college. He added a ton of muscle and now he's hard to stop at either position. I don't see what in there Moore brings thats comparable at all. Tuck was a stud rusher at ND. Tuck was way more athletic. Until Moore bulks up his MM, or becomes a pass rusherat ANY position, much less multiple positions, the Tuck dreams should be kept quiet. I think Moore can improve our crappy rotation, but Greg Peterson strikes me as the defnititon of league average player. I don't see him in the NFL much longer.

We've still got Sean Mahan and his decent sized contract at center....and nobody else. So him and Zuttah are pretty much guaranteed spots So Fulton is going to have to beat out Lee and Alibi, who I think is also solid. It's an uphill battle for him, I'm predicting PS.
We can cut Mahan at any time without any bonuses to worry about.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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We can cut Mahan at any time without any bonuses to worry about.
Where are we at in terms of the cap floor though? Pitt was left holding his accelerated SB, but he's also got a decent sized base to go with. And we probably aren't thinking of cutting him because who else would back-up center? Z played some snaps there last year, but I don't think the team wants him being the only back-up on the interior especially given his lack of experience at center, one of the most important positions on O.

We can cut him, but I don't see how we would...
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Where are we at in terms of the cap floor though? Pitt was left holding his accelerated SB, but he's also got a decent sized base to go with. And we probably aren't thinking of cutting him because who else would back-up center? Z played some snaps there last year, but I don't think the team wants him being the only back-up on the interior especially given his lack of experience at center, one of the most important positions on O.

We can cut him, but I don't see how we would...
Well you were talking about his contract when it is obviously not an issue.

And according to Pewter Report we are above the salary cap floor. We should definitely use some of it on contracts in my opinion. Give guys like Tanard and Barrett new contracts with big signing bonuses and low (lower than normal) base salaries.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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Well you were talking about his contract when it is obviously not an issue.

And according to Pewter Report we are above the salary cap floor. We should definitely use some of it on contracts in my opinion. Give guys like Tanard and Barrett new contracts with big signing bonuses and low (lower than normal) base salaries.
I didn't say it was an issue, I'm just saying there's a few reasons why he's a pretty safe bet to make the roster. Thats the second time now that you think more is implied than I'm saying. Just take it at face value, maybe?
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:36 AM    (permalink
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I didn't say it was an issue, I'm just saying there's a few reasons why he's a pretty safe bet to make the roster. Thats the second time now that you think more is implied than I'm saying. Just take it at face value, maybe?
I agree that he will make the roster. I was just querying the relevance of contract information when talking about whether Xavier Fulton has a legitimate chance of making the roster.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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I agree that he will make the roster. I was just querying the relevance of contract information when talking about whether Xavier Fulton has a legitimate chance of making the roster.
The same relevance I mentioned, there's one roster spot left on the line unless we carry more guys than we have in the past. He beats out Alibi and Lee, and he's in. I don't think he does though.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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The same relevance I mentioned, there's one roster spot left on the line unless we carry more guys than we have in the past. He beats out Alibi and Lee, and he's in. I don't think he does though.
I think he handles Alibi quite easily to be honest.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Alibi is a RT. Fulton needs to beat out Lee by a decent margin, who is a swing tackle, and hope the team has a ton of confidence in Trueblood. Otherwise, they could end up keeping someone who is capable at RT. Which is why I think Lee has the advantage. He's seen reps at both. Alibi isn't a LT. Fulton isn't a RT.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Alibi is a RT. Fulton needs to beat out Lee by a decent margin, who is a swing tackle, and hope the team has a ton of confidence in Trueblood. Otherwise, they could end up keeping someone who is capable at RT. Which is why I think Lee has the advantage. He's seen reps at both. Alibi isn't a LT. Fulton isn't a RT.
Alibi is nothing more than a journeyman tackle. He has absolutely no potential for the future, unlike Fulton who is a very solid fit in our new ZBS scheme, something I don't think Alibi is.

With the youth movement in full swing I just expect Lee to be the #3 tackle at both positions and Fulton to make it based on potential as the #4.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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Alibi is nothing more than a journeyman tackle. He has absolutely no potential for the future, unlike Fulton who is a very solid fit in our new ZBS scheme, something I don't think Alibi is.

With the youth movement in full swing I just expect Lee to be the #3 tackle at both positions and Fulton to make it based on potential as the #4.
What makes you think we keep 9 linemen this year?

And if the staff thinks Trueblood is a weak(er) link on the line, why would they keep a tackle this year that couldn't play his spot?
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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I think we are a solid bet to keep 9 lineman this year. Moreso than last due to the change in systems which could worry a few of our players.

I never said Fulton couldn't play his spot as in a ZBS I think he could be effective. The potential I was talking about was his ceiling, not where he is currently at which is at a back-up level. No better or worse than most back-up lineman you see throughout the league.

I don't think it is hard to imagine us keeping Joseph, Faine, Sears, Penn, Trueblood, Mahan, Zuttah and Lee all on the roster. Although I could see a situation where neither Alibi or Fulton make the roster and we just carry one extra tackle.

With a new coaching regime in place I think there is a lot of room for new players to win roster spots, Fulton included.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:31 AM    (permalink
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I think we are a solid bet to keep 9 lineman this year. Moreso than last due to the change in systems which could worry a few of our players.
I would agree with that, except our guys are basically locks. It's not like we're really going to be plugging in guys outside of injury. If our guys have trouble with it, we're going to stick to them so it's not like we need to carry more guys. We're not going to be using anymore linemen. If this were the line of 2003 or so, I could see us keeping more in that there's more competition for if guys struggle. More subbing. Thats not going to happen. We're not going to have a quick pull on Davin or Sears or Faine. Likely not on Penn either. True only if he really struggles.

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I never said Fulton couldn't play his spot as in a ZBS I think he could be effective. The potential I was talking about was his ceiling, not where he is currently at which is at a back-up level. No better or worse than most back-up lineman you see throughout the league.
We're running a more power ZBS, like New England, not the tiny linemen ZBS of the Denvers of the world. Thats why no one is worried about guys like Davin or Sears who are straight maulers. Not even much of a concern for Trueblood transition-wise from what I've heard.

And no, I don't think there's any way Fulton ever plays RT for us. That'd be worse than Yatta playing RT for us.

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I don't think it is hard to imagine us keeping Joseph, Faine, Sears, Penn, Trueblood, Mahan, Zuttah and Lee all on the roster. Although I could see a situation where neither Alibi or Fulton make the roster and we just carry one extra tackle.

With a new coaching regime in place I think there is a lot of room for new players to win roster spots, Fulton included.
Thats what I'm saying. We kept 8 the past 2 or 3 years. Why would we keep 9 this year? If he performs well enough and beats out Lee, he could make the roster. But I don't see otherwise.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:43 AM    (permalink
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And no, I don't think there's any way Fulton ever plays RT for us. That'd be worse than Yatta playing RT for us.

Thats what I'm saying. We kept 8 the past 2 or 3 years. Why would we keep 9 this year? If he performs well enough and beats out Lee, he could make the roster. But I don't see otherwise.
We all know that isn't possible. :(

We opened the 2008 season with 2 offensive tackles. I just don't think it would be that shocking if we did it again.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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I thought our reserve OL last year were Mahan, Zuttah, and Lee? Who am I missing?
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we drafted Fulton to place him on the practice squad and back up at G. If we're gonna play "read the staff" here, I say we drafted him for his versatility as a backup right now on the active roster.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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I thought our reserve OL last year were Mahan, Zuttah, and Lee? Who am I missing?
Anthony Davis. Until he was cut about a month into the season.

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I don't think we drafted Fulton to place him on the practice squad and back up at G. If we're gonna play "read the staff" here, I say we drafted him for his versatility as a backup right now on the active roster.
^^ What he said.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we drafted Fulton to place him on the practice squad and back up at G. If we're gonna play "read the staff" here, I say we drafted him for his versatility as a backup right now on the active roster.
I think Fulton was a value pick, and I liked it. He had more potential than most of the guys left on the board. But I still don't think he makes the roster. Wouldn't be the first guy we drafted in the 5th who didn't make the team. There have been plenty of those, and a few 4ths too (Dre, Nimmo). Back up at guard? Dub tee eff?

What versatility? Would you put him at RT? Would he even be a blip on the radar inside? The upside of him is that he could develop into a better LT than Lee or Penn. He has the potential too. His versatility, I don't see much there.....
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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What versatility? Would you put him at RT? Would he even be a blip on the radar inside? The upside of him is that he could develop into a better LT than Lee or Penn. He has the potential too. His versatility, I don't see much there.....
I think Fiulton does have versatility in a ZBS. Nobody expected Daryn Colledge to be drafted as a G for Green Bay a few years back. Fulton and Colledge seem similar at first glance. Same size, both considered pass blockers. Not that we have a pressing need at G, but it does open up options.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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I think Fulton was a value pick, and I liked it. He had more potential than most of the guys left on the board. But I still don't think he makes the roster. Wouldn't be the first guy we drafted in the 5th who didn't make the team. There have been plenty of those, and a few 4ths too (Dre, Nimmo). Back up at guard? Dub tee eff?

What versatility? Would you put him at RT? Would he even be a blip on the radar inside? The upside of him is that he could develop into a better LT than Lee or Penn. He has the potential too. His versatility, I don't see much there.....
You said that Lee is the backup at LT and Alabi is the backup at RT so I figured you think Fulton is gonna get a look at G.

He's versatile in our system, like Captain Fear said. He's 6'4" 300+ and moves well with good feet. I don't think RT is ideal, but he could fill in there. I definitely think he can back up LT and both G spots though.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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You said that Lee is the backup at LT and Alabi is the backup at RT so I figured you think Fulton is gonna get a look at G.
I don't think Alibi makes the roster, but if he did it would be to back-up True as it's the only spot he fits. Same with Fulton at LT.

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He's versatile in our system, like Captain Fear said. He's 6'4" 300+ and moves well with good feet. I don't think RT is ideal, but he could fill in there. I definitely think he can back up LT and both G spots though.
If we were running a tiny, Denver ZBS why would we keep guys like Sears and True? Fulton at guard is out there IMHO. I've seen the guy plenty, and IMO he'd get pushed around inside. ZBS or not. Aside from the fact that he'd be 3rd string anywhere, except if he beats out Lee.
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Old 05-16-2009, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Funnily enough Pewter Report is estimating that we carry 8 lineman, including Fulton. The other two back-ups being Zuttah as the inside swingman and James Lee.
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