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Old 05-04-2009, 03:42 PM    (permalink) 
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by broth223 View Post
We had this debate a long time ago I couldn't find the thread though...

My basic argument on why McNabb isn't a HOF QB
In the modern Era only 3 QBs have not been either a SB winning QB (or pre SB equivalent) nor a League MVP.

Jim Kelly - 5 Time Pro Bowler, 4 Consecutive SB appearances.

Warren Moon - 9 Time Pro Bowl selection

Sonny JURGENSEN - 5 time Pro Bowler 3 time NFL passing leader probably the best argument for McNabb (stats wise) assuming McNabb has 2-3 Good seasons left.

McNabb - 5x Pro Bowl 1 SB appearance.
Is this it?
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29775 ?
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:50 PM    (permalink) 
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
yeah that was it I'm going to quote my post in that thread to accentuate the point I made in the previous page.

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Originally Posted by broth223 View Post
Not stupid at all

How many Hall of fame QB's in the modern era are lacking BOTH a league MVP AND a Super Bowl win (or pre super bowl equivilent) answer 3

Player Super Bowl? MVP?
TROY AIKMAN Yes NO
GEORGE BLANDA Yes NO* (not applicable for the first half of his career)
TERRY BRADSHAW Yes Yes
LEN DAWSON Yes Yes
JOHN ELWAY Yes Yes
OTTO GRAHAM Yes N/A
BOB GRIESE Yes No* (I'm only counting AP MVP he was NEA MVP)
SONNY JURGENSEN No No (May be the best arguement for McNabb)
JIM KELLY No No (went to 4 back to back SB's)
BOBBY LAYNE Yes N/A
DAN MARINO No Yes
JOE MONTANA Yes Yes
WARREN MOON No No (9 time Pro bowl)
JOE NAMATH Yes No
BART STARR Yes Yes
FRAN TARKENTON Yes Yes
Y.A. TITTLE No Yes
NORM VAN BROCKLIN Yes N/A
STEVE YOUNG Yes Yes
EDIT JOHNNY UNITAS Yes Yes
ROGER STAUBACH Yes No?



Donovan McNabb No No
And Sonny Jugenson was the lead the NFL in passing for 3 seasons I don't know if McNabb ever did that. So I say yeah retire McNabb's number he was a great Eagle for a long time but his bust doesn't belong in Canton.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:55 PM    (permalink) 
tjsunstein
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yeah that was it I'm going to quote my post in that thread to accentuate the point I made in the previous page.

And Sonny Jugenson was the lead the NFL in passing for 3 seasons I don't know if McNabb ever did that. So I say yeah retire McNabb's number he was a great Eagle for a long time but his bust doesn't belong in Canton.
Was never in the top 5 for Passing Yards in a season.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:56 PM    (permalink) 
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of the current veteran qb's brady and manning are the only two players who are HOF bound to me
What about Kurt Warner?
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:06 PM    (permalink) 
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What about Kurt Warner?
I think he should be in but there's a thread about that too. Somewhere...
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:59 PM    (permalink) 
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Originally Posted by broth223 View Post
We had this debate a long time ago I couldn't find the thread though...

My basic argument on why McNabb isn't a HOF QB
In the modern Era only 3 QBs have not been either a SB winning QB (or pre SB equivalent) nor a League MVP.

Jim Kelly - 5 Time Pro Bowler, 4 Consecutive SB appearances.

Warren Moon - 9 Time Pro Bowl selection

Sonny JURGENSEN - 5 time Pro Bowler 3 time NFL passing leader probably the best argument for McNabb (stats wise) assuming McNabb has 2-3 Good seasons left.


McNabb - 5x Pro Bowl 1 SB appearance.
You forgot Dan Fouts.
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:43 PM    (permalink) 
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I think he should be in but there's a thread about that too. Somewhere...
yeah, and in that thread i dont see warner as a hof qb either. he had to many bad year in the middle. Outside of manning and brady the only current guy well into his carreer with a small shot are brees and roethlisberger imo. Brees needs way more teamsucces to get there though (and a couple more of the year like last year. Roethlisberger has the superbowls but needs some great statistical seasons to get there.
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:10 PM    (permalink) 
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What about Kurt Warner?
To me, Kurt Warner is a no doubt HoFer...I have a hard time making an argument against it.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:54 AM    (permalink) 
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Well, my minimum prereq is that the quarterback has to have been arguably the best in the NFL for some period of time.

And I can't convince myself that McNabb has ever been better then either Peyton Manning or, since 2003, Tom Brady.
So over the past 30 years the HOF QBs would look something like this:
Manning
Brady
Favre
Young
Montana
Marino

6 HOF QBs over the past 30 years...
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:28 PM    (permalink) 
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So over the past 30 years the HOF QBs would look something like this:
Manning
Brady
Favre
Young
Montana
Marino

6 HOF QBs over the past 30 years...
Over the past 15-20 years, not 30 years. And yes. What's wrong with only 6 QBs in that time? Again, it's Hall of Fame not Hall of Very Good.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink) 
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You forgot Dan Fouts.
Dan Fouts won the MVP in 1982.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:47 PM    (permalink) 
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Over the past 15-20 years, not 30 years. And yes. What's wrong with only 6 QBs in that time? Again, it's Hall of Fame not Hall of Very Good.
This is 2009 Montana started in '79 and Marino in '83. So I guess I could say 25 years, just to give them a couple years to get situated.

I forgot Elway.

What's wrong is that it leaves out Aikman, Kelly, Moon, and Fouts. All those guys deserve to be in. You can't only measure players based on how great they were, if they were important to the NFL they have to get in also, which is why Moon got in, which is why Aikman was a first ballot. It is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Greatness. Greatness is one measure of importance, but not the only one.

That being said, I'm conflicted on Mcnabb, a couple more years and I say he is in. Right now, I wouldn't be mad, but I don't think so.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:38 PM    (permalink) 
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I was planning on creating a thread about something I've really been wondering, which is very much along the lines of this recent thread so I guess I'll just add on to it. Anyways, here goes:

Donovan McNabb had two years left on his existing contract, but the Eagles signed him to a new two-year deal with more money. So, safe to say, they're committed to him for at least one more year if not both years.

And they continue to add talent to a well-built team, acquiring in the offseason Stacey Andrews, Jason Peters, Jeremy Maclin, LeSean McCoy, and Ellis Hobbs among other players.

Coming off of last year, when they took the Cardinals - playing in Arizona - to the brink of the NFC Championship Game, I think potentially the Eagles could be primed for another Super Bowl appearance in the next two years. Especially with the way I think the NFC could break in the next year, if not two.

So as to the Hall of Fame chances of Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb ...

Does a Super Bowl championship in the next two years automatically get both into the Hall?

And is anything less than a championship enough? A SB appearance, another entry (or two) into an NFCCG, two NFCCGs, numbers of years more?

I'm pretty curious as to what you guys think.
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Old 07-11-2009, 08:48 PM    (permalink) 
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I think McNabb will eventually make it, he will have to wait a long time but he will get in. Do I necesarcilly think he deserves to be in the in HOF? No, not really he hasn't been dominant which is what I would like out of a HOF player.

But if you compare his numbers to some other HOF QBs from this era he stacks up very well so he definatly could get in...

Donovan McNabb -5 time Pro Bowler 0 All Pros 0 Super Bowl Rings |128 Games started | Record:82-45-1-64%
Passing
2534 CMP | 4303 Att| 58.9 % | 29,320 yds | 6.8YPA | 194 TD | 90 Int | 85.9 Rat
Rushing
536 att | 3109 Yds | 5.8 YPC | 26 TDs

Steve Young- 7 Pro Bowls 3 All Pros 1 Super Bowl ring | 143 starts | Record 94-49- 66%
Passing
2667 CMP | 4149 Att | 64.3 % | 33124 yds | 7.9 YPA | 232 TD | 107 Int | 96.8 Rat
Rushing
722 att | 4239 Yds | 49 Td | 5.9 YPA

Jim Kelly -5 Pro Bowl 1 All Pr 0 Super Bowl | 160 Starts | Record 101-59 - 63%
Passing
2874 Cmp | 4779 Att | 60.1% | 35467 Yds | 7.4 YPA | 237 TD | 175 Int | 84.4 rat
Rushing
304 att | 1049 yds | 7 TD | 3.5 YPC

Troy Aikman- 6 Pro Bowls 0 All Pro 3 Super Bowl Rings | 165 Starts | Record 94-71- 61.5%
Passing
2898 Cmp | 4715 Att | 61.5% | 32942 Yds | 7.0 YPA | 165 TD | 141 Int | 81.6 Rat
Rushing
327 Att | 1016 yds | 9 Td | 3.1 YPC

Also keep in mind McNabb obtained these numbers with mostly a cast of scrubs, especially compared to what some of those QBs had to work with. But to me what impresses me the most about McNabb has been his decision making over his career he has only thrown 90 Ints on 4303 Att thats 1 int per every 48 Passes, thats damn good.

I think McNabb has been very under rated for the majority of his career. His career numbers won't blow you away. However when you compare them to so other QBs they put in the hall pretty recently it does seem he stands a very good chance to make it in one day down the road.
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Old 07-12-2009, 12:48 AM    (permalink) 
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He's not a HOFer at all. Was he very good at one point? Yes, he was great. But was he a dominant player of our time? NO, I don't think he's in that conversation.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:10 AM    (permalink) 
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I think McNabb will eventually make it, he will have to wait a long time but he will get in. Do I necesarcilly think he deserves to be in the in HOF? No, not really he hasn't been dominant which is what I would like out of a HOF player.

But if you compare his numbers to some other HOF QBs from this era he stacks up very well so he definatly could get in...

Donovan McNabb -5 time Pro Bowler 0 All Pros 0 Super Bowl Rings |128 Games started | Record:82-45-1-64%
Passing
2534 CMP | 4303 Att| 58.9 % | 29,320 yds | 6.8YPA | 194 TD | 90 Int | 85.9 Rat
Rushing
536 att | 3109 Yds | 5.8 YPC | 26 TDs

Steve Young- 7 Pro Bowls 3 All Pros 1 Super Bowl ring | 143 starts | Record 94-49- 66%
Passing
2667 CMP | 4149 Att | 64.3 % | 33124 yds | 7.9 YPA | 232 TD | 107 Int | 96.8 Rat
Rushing
722 att | 4239 Yds | 49 Td | 5.9 YPA

Jim Kelly -5 Pro Bowl 1 All Pr 0 Super Bowl | 160 Starts | Record 101-59 - 63%
Passing
2874 Cmp | 4779 Att | 60.1% | 35467 Yds | 7.4 YPA | 237 TD | 175 Int | 84.4 rat
Rushing
304 att | 1049 yds | 7 TD | 3.5 YPC

Troy Aikman- 6 Pro Bowls 0 All Pro 3 Super Bowl Rings | 165 Starts | Record 94-71- 61.5%
Passing
2898 Cmp | 4715 Att | 61.5% | 32942 Yds | 7.0 YPA | 165 TD | 141 Int | 81.6 Rat
Rushing
327 Att | 1016 yds | 9 Td | 3.1 YPC
Not to be "that guy" but Aikman was an All-Pro in 1993. The homer in me couldn't let this slide.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:13 AM    (permalink) 
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You guys are too caught up in this. Right now he may not look like a HOF'er, but two or three more years with Brian Wesbrook, DeSean Jackson, etc around him he could be looking like one.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:17 AM    (permalink) 
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Needs a Superbowl win.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:19 AM    (permalink) 
GB12
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So as to the Hall of Fame chances of Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb ...
I'm shocked that you could even think about Andy Reid for the Hall of Fame. That is a joke.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:42 PM    (permalink) 
Geo
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Well that's kind of what I was wondering about. If the Eagles do win a Super Bowl, what does that mean for Reid? He'll have had an unprecedented decade of success with the Eagles, nevermind bring the franchise its first championship. Does that mean Hall of Fame discussion for him?
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:47 PM    (permalink) 
Shane P. Hallam
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If he wins a ring, he'll get consideration at least.
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Old 07-12-2009, 08:14 PM    (permalink) 
Crazy_Chris
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Not to be "that guy" but Aikman was an All-Pro in 1993. The homer in me couldn't let this slide.
My bad if you were right I was just going off of pro football reference and they don't have him listed as ever being an all pro. So I guess they got it wrong

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...A/AikmTr00.htm
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:20 AM    (permalink) 
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If McNabb makes it, then Phil Simms should be a shoe in!
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:34 AM    (permalink) 
Thumper
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McNabb is only 680 yds away from 30,000 yards which barring injury he should break by week 4. He is only 391 rushing yards away from 3500 yards. Either way only a SB ring will keep him out of the HOF if he continues to play at this level for 3-5 more years. It's entirely possible for him if all he does is average his career stats to have 40,000+ pass yds 270+ TD/ 3600 rush yds 35TD when its all said and done or more if indeed he stays healthy. Imagine what his numbers would be had he not been injured in the 2-3 yr span after the SB where he missed 13 games (22 in total for his career) after being named starter.

Just so you know he should have more passing yards than Steve Young and Steve McNair by the end of this season. When it is all said and done McNabb will be a member of the 30000 and 3500 club.

Plus look at all of this:


He is the third winningest QB of his generation and he has had very little talent to work with, he has 5 NFC Championship games and a superbowl appearance. He is a hall of famer.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:43 AM    (permalink) 
Thumper
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If McNabb makes it, then Phil Simms should be a shoe in!
Lol you have to be kidding. Look at the stats buddy, McNabb will smash Simms numbers.

Phil Simms- 14 seasons
33,462 career passing yards
199 Touchdown Passes
157 interceptions
sacked 477 times
349 rushing attempts
1,252 rushing yards and 6 touchdowns

Donovan McNabb- 10 seasons
29,320 passing yards
194 touchdown passes
90 interceptions
sacked 322 times
536 rushing attempts
3,109 rushing yards and 26 touchdowns

All that in 4 less seasons. Yeah, Phil Simms is a shoe in if McNabb makes it in! Sorry thats wrong and I wish that thing didn't have a smiley face.
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