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Old 05-09-2009, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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Default Best NFC East Front Office?

I am a Cowboy fan. With that said I see it going like this:

1. Giants: Why? They won a Superbowl by beating the best coached team in football. Enough said. Congrats to Giants fans.

2. Eagles: Why? They have been in the mix for around ten years. I don't like their offseason moves at all. OLT Peters gave up 11.5 sacks last year. For the money spent on Peters you could have resigned Dawkins and Thomas. Then you could have trade for a proven young WR. Draft was good for a weak draft crop.

3. Cowboys: Why? Jerry Jones.......Can't seem to stop being a fool! Positive is there appears to be enough good front office people to point him in the right direction(if he listens).

4. Redskins: Why? Snyder and Cerrato.......Amazing but true....They make Jones look like a competent GM. They are second to only Al Davis for mismanagement. Positive is the Skins have a good young coach and several hold overs from Gibbs days.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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2. Eagles: Why? They have been in the mix for around ten years. I don't like their offseason moves at all. OLT Peters gave up 11.5 sacks last year. For the money spent on Peters you could have resigned Dawkins and Thomas. Then you could have trade for a proven young WR. Draft was good for a weak draft crop.
I'll bet that Peters slices that number in half with his new contract, new team and a better supporting cast around him. The amount of available funds wasn't the issue with the Eagles, who will likely be $15 million or so under the cap after the rookies sign. Tra Thomas, for all of his fanfare as a pass blocker, was/is absolutely horrendous in run blocking. The guy never got any push at all. Peters is a much better run-blocker than Thomas, and his pass blocking will assuredly be better.

Dawkins, well, that's a different story. While his coverage blows major wang now, he was a good SS (FS by designation, SS if you bothered to watch any Eagles game). The Eagles have never really had a use for safeties who are coverage liabilities with Jim Johnson's ultra-aggressive scheme. However, the Eagles were in great cap shape and money wasn't the issue with either Thomas or Dawkins. They just decided to go younger.

I'm really liking the Eagles' receiving corps more and more. Maclin, Jackson, Curtis, Avant and Baskett is a quintet I'd match up with almost anyone else's.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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I'll bet that Peters slices that number in half with his new contract, new team and a better supporting cast around him. The amount of available funds wasn't the issue with the Eagles, who will likely be $15 million or so under the cap after the rookies sign. Tra Thomas, for all of his fanfare as a pass blocker, was/is absolutely horrendous in run blocking. The guy never got any push at all. Peters is a much better run-blocker than Thomas, and his pass blocking will assuredly be better.

Dawkins, well, that's a different story. While his coverage blows major wang now, he was a good SS (FS by designation, SS if you bothered to watch any Eagles game). The Eagles have never really had a use for safeties who are coverage liabilities with Jim Johnson's ultra-aggressive scheme. However, the Eagles were in great cap shape and money wasn't the issue with either Thomas or Dawkins. They just decided to go younger.

I'm really liking the Eagles' receiving corps more and more. Maclin, Jackson, Curtis, Avant and Baskett is a quintet I'd match up with almost anyone else's.
Slicing Peters sacks in half is still a very bad stat. Gotta laugh at you for hating on Dawkins now that he's no longer an Eagle. So classic. Maclin hasn't done jack crap. I'd like to see something spectacular from him before I call that receiving corps the best in the league. LOL.

Classic Sniper. LOL. Mike Hart still loves you.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Can someone tell me how long your team's current FO staff has been in place?
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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10 years. Andy Reid runs the place.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Slicing Peters sacks in half is still a very bad stat. Gotta laugh at you for hating on Dawkins now that he's no longer an Eagle. So classic. Maclin hasn't done jack crap. I'd like to see something spectacular from him before I call that receiving corps the best in the league. LOL.

Classic Sniper. LOL. Mike Hart still loves you.
I'll (and many other Eagles fans) tell you that Dawkins lost a ton of range last year. He was the FS on the roster, but was more of a Rover, and as a result, Quentin Demps was in on a lot of 3 Safety sets, and gained some much needed experience. You may not have seen it when he was still with us, but any Eagles fan knew he isn't nearly the same guy he was the season before. I love Dawk, and it tears me apart to say this stuff about him, but I can't see him in Denver for more than two years.

I'll agree about our WR corp for now, but you must agree D-Unit, that the pieces are there, it may take a few years, but I could see this WR corp being one of the tops in the league. And in terms of depth, i agree with Sniper, the #4 and #5 WRs on this team could be #2 or #3 on a lot of teams.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Gotta laugh at you for hating on Dawkins now that he's no longer an Eagle.
Please tell me more about how Quintin Mikell sucks. I'm waiting. I'm not hating on anything. Ask any ******* Eagles fan who played closer to the LOS. It was painfully obvious in the first Cowboys game that Dawkins could no longer cover. But yeah, tell me more about my team. I'm sure you know more.

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Maclin hasn't done jack crap.
A. Nice double negative.
B. That didn't stop your Cowboys buddies from blowing the likes of Miles Austin and Sam Hurd, did it? Maclin has 10x the talent that either of those two clowns have.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry D-Unit, I respect your opinions a lot, but saying Quentin Mikell sucks makes absolutely no sense at all, and you couldn't have been watching the guy play if you think we was closer to the line of scrimmage than Dawkins. Dakwins played closer to a LB role than a FS role if anything, and Mikell was everywhere on the field, and was easily our best defender. He has the coverage abilities to play either Safety spot, and saying he can't cover is just not correct. He is part of the reason that Samuel can take chances out there on WRs, because Mikell will be there to break up a pass, or lay a heavy hit and separate the receiver from the ball.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Slicing Peters sacks in half is still a very bad stat. Gotta laugh at you for hating on Dawkins now that he's no longer an Eagle. So classic. Maclin hasn't done jack crap. I'd like to see something spectacular from him before I call that receiving corps the best in the league. LOL.

Classic Sniper. LOL. Mike Hart still loves you.
While the sack stat on Peters doesn't look pretty a point that needs to be recognized is the Bills almost never gave him tight end or running back help. The rest of their line wasn't nearly as good as he was, so they received aid from tight ends and RB's in pass blocking while Peters was on his own for the most part. Honestly, every tackle gets bested a few times a game, but it's often the tight end or RB who prevents that play from resulting in a sack.

Since the Eagles O-Line is much better than the Bills, he'll get some more help and I'd be surprised if he gave up as many as half the sacks he did last season. At first I didn't like the move, but he's starting to grow on me.

That being said I'd pick the Giants. Jerry Reese has done a fantastic job in his time with Giants. He turned them from a team that perennially disappointed with a qb under intense scrutiny into a Superbowl Champion. Also all the controversy surrounding Tom Coughlin has really died down since he took over. Getting rid of Shockey was a good personnel decision, he's just not a team first guy.

After the Giants I'd say the Eagles. Their sustained success is indicative of good drafting and good management.

Then I'd say Cowboys and then the Redskins since they overpay on FA's and avoid the draft like the plague.
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I agree on the order of Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins. The Giants efforts have paid off in a Championship, and none of these other regimes have done that recently...
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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What are some good criteria to use?

How much does past accomplishment weigh? I think the answers are different depending on time frame.

How much does future outlook weigh? What is that based off? The last draft/offseason? The last 2, 3, 4, 5, more?
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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What are some good criteria to use?

How much does past accomplishment weigh? I think the answers are different depending on time frame.

How much does future outlook weigh? What is that based off? The last draft/offseason? The last 2, 3, 4, 5, more?
Not sure, but if you use the current groups that are in with each team, or thereabout. I'd say the time frame is over the last few years, not just this off-season, but more like 5-10 years.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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While the sack stat on Peters doesn't look pretty a point that needs to be recognized is the Bills almost never gave him tight end or running back help. The rest of their line wasn't nearly as good as he was, so they received aid from tight ends and RB's in pass blocking while Peters was on his own for the most part. Honestly, every tackle gets bested a few times a game, but it's often the tight end or RB who prevents that play from resulting in a sack.

Since the Eagles O-Line is much better than the Bills, he'll get some more help and I'd be surprised if he gave up as many as half the sacks he did last season. At first I didn't like the move, but he's starting to grow on me.

That being said I'd pick the Giants. Jerry Reese has done a fantastic job in his time with Giants. He turned them from a team that perennially disappointed with a qb under intense scrutiny into a Superbowl Champion. Also all the controversy surrounding Tom Coughlin has really died down since he took over. Getting rid of Shockey was a good personnel decision, he's just not a team first guy.

After the Giants I'd say the Eagles. Their sustained success is indicative of good drafting and good management.

Then I'd say Cowboys and then the Redskins since they overpay on FA's and avoid the draft like the plague.
Sorry but I have to call ********, Peters wasn't as good as Walker last year and while Dockery and Fowler where garbage inside Peters was equally garbage at LT. I loved the guy before this season but he just layed a major egg last year. He wasn't special in the run game and his technique just went to **** as he gave up leverage, position and left open lanes for pass rushers to the QB. I think he definitely has the ability to rebound but if he thinks that now that he's got paid he's an elite LT and stays lazy he might challenge Winston Justice's ageless performance against Osi on a semi-regular basis.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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Sorry but I have to call ********, Peters wasn't as good as Walker last year and while Dockery and Fowler where garbage inside Peters was equally garbage at LT. I loved the guy before this season but he just layed a major egg last year. He wasn't special in the run game and his technique just went to **** as he gave up leverage, position and left open lanes for pass rushers to the QB. I think he definitely has the ability to rebound but if he thinks that now that he's got paid he's an elite LT and stays lazy he might challenge Winston Justice's ageless performance against Osi on a semi-regular basis.
I agree he had a subpar year, but with his ability and some sort of motivation I would be very surprised if he doesn't have a much better year this year. His former offensive line coach in Buffalo Jim McNally who knows Peters very well was quoted in this article and says that as far as players he has coached, Peters is second only to Anthony Munoz in terms of ability. Now I'm not saying all that, but a lot of people who have done their homework on him and watched him very closely see a lot of good in him, even in last season. So while he did have a disappointing season last year, to say he was worse than Langston Walker is an overstatement.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...0/draft/4.html
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:40 AM    (permalink
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I agree he had a subpar year, but with his ability and some sort of motivation I would be very surprised if he doesn't have a much better year this year. His former offensive line coach in Buffalo Jim McNally who knows Peters very well was quoted in this article and says that as far as players he has coached, Peters is second only to Anthony Munoz in terms of ability. Now I'm not saying all that, but a lot of people who have done their homework on him and watched him very closely see a lot of good in him, even in last season. So while he did have a disappointing season last year, to say he was worse than Langston Walker is an overstatement.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...0/draft/4.html
Again I'm not bagging on Peters, he has a lot of talent and I love that he made himself into the guy he is out of a UDFA. But I live in buffalo, I watched every bills game and Langston Walker was ten times the tackle Peters was last season. That's not saying Peters is generally worse than Walker, but last season the team was much better off with Walker at LT than with Peters in there. They had much more success running behind Walker and Walker didn't whiff on pass rushers as regularly as Peters did. Now maybe that was all because of the hold out or because Peters was mad at the bills and was throwing hissy fit by trying to sabotage the team or maybe it was because he got sloppy and lazy last year thinking he was an elite LT and so he didn't have to keep working as hard. Whatever the reason Jason Peters played like a flaming pile of poo last year for the bills and if Trent Edwards never gets back to the QB he was before his concussion I'll blame Peters for being a greedy ***** a year into his four year extension.

He certainly has the ability to bounce back and actually merit a probowl nomination but that won't change the fact that in the 2008-2009 season Langston Walker was a better OT than Jason Peters by a mile.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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I feel like that he played well because he had a chip on his shoulder as a former URFA, and when he got recognition like you said hero that he slacked off. I do feel though he'll do better because there is more talent around him.

As for the chipping the DE with a RB or TE you guys didnt do that when justice got his **** wrecked, and even if you do it now celek and ingram are not very good blockers. McCoy and Westbrook probably can block a little but against a pro bowl DE they probably wont get the block most of the time considering they'll have to cut him. Weaver is the only guy i see as having the ability to make a chip and even then you lose a threat.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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As for the chipping the DE with a RB or TE you guys didnt do that when justice got his **** wrecked, and even if you do it now celek and ingram are not very good blockers. McCoy and Westbrook probably can block a little but against a pro bowl DE they probably wont get the block most of the time considering they'll have to cut him. Weaver is the only guy i see as having the ability to make a chip and even then you lose a threat.
Seemed to work just fine against Justin Tuck last year. Runyan handed him his ass on a silver plate without too much help. Westbrook is one of the league's best at chipping the DE.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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I feel like that he played well because he had a chip on his shoulder as a former URFA, and when he got recognition like you said hero that he slacked off. I do feel though he'll do better because there is more talent around him.

As for the chipping the DE with a RB or TE you guys didnt do that when justice got his **** wrecked, and even if you do it now celek and ingram are not very good blockers. McCoy and Westbrook probably can block a little but against a pro bowl DE they probably wont get the block most of the time considering they'll have to cut him. Weaver is the only guy i see as having the ability to make a chip and even then you lose a threat.
I agree that Celek and ingram wouldn't be much help as blockers, but any help for either Tackle would obvioulsy make the job easier on the Tackle. Now I'm not saying either of them could handle a DE one on one on a consistent basis, but if they chip, slide, or anything to help the Tackle, it is worth it, and will give the Tackle an advantage, albeit a slight one.

McCoy needs to work on blocking, but Westy is a complete RB, and he is very good as a blocker, he is one of the better blocking RBs in the league. Granted he has to go about it a different way due to his size, he can't just lock onto most defenders and stone them like Weaver can, but his cut blocks are just as effective. McCoy will need some work in terms of blocking, though he is better than given credit for, he is certainly below average as a pass protector. He is the only one of our RBs that worries me when it comes to blocking.

I don't think you understand what "chip" means. Chip blocking isn't only designed as a backup if the Tackle can't get the job done. There are routes to the flats and shallow that require the RB (or FB) to chip so the timing is right. You don't lose a weapon when you have a chip block, its just another assignment for the player to have before they go out for their route. I understand those plyaers that chip will occasionally get stuck up while chip blocking, but it isn't how it usually pans out on the field.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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I don't think you understand what "chip" means. Chip blocking isn't only designed as a backup if the Tackle can't get the job done. There are routes to the flats and shallow that require the RB (or FB) to chip so the timing is right. You don't lose a weapon when you have a chip block, its just another assignment for the player to have before they go out for their route. I understand those plyaers that chip will occasionally get stuck up while chip blocking, but it isn't how it usually pans out on the field.
Westbrook is great at this. He'll chill out in pass pro, smack the piss out of some DE and then wiggle out into the flats. It usually sucks in the LB that's covering him down to the LOS and gives Westbrook room to operate.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Westbrook is great at this. He'll chill out in pass pro, smack the piss out of some DE and then wiggle out into the flats. It usually sucks in the LB that's covering him down to the LOS and gives Westbrook room to operate.
One of the reasons I love Westy so much is he excels in every aspect of the game, as a runner, receiver, and blocker. He is the one of the most balanced RBs in the NFL along with LT (still) and Stephen Jackson.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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One of the reasons I love Westy so much is he excels in every aspect of the game, as a runner, receiver, and blocker. He is the one of the most balanced RBs in the NFL along with LT (still) and Stephen Jackson.
LT is past his prime.....Insert Marion Barber and Maurice Jones-Drew.....
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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I agree he had a subpar year, but with his ability and some sort of motivation I would be very surprised if he doesn't have a much better year this year. His former offensive line coach in Buffalo Jim McNally who knows Peters very well was quoted in this article and says that as far as players he has coached, Peters is second only to Anthony Munoz in terms of ability. Now I'm not saying all that, but a lot of people who have done their homework on him and watched him very closely see a lot of good in him, even in last season. So while he did have a disappointing season last year, to say he was worse than Langston Walker is an overstatement.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...0/draft/4.html
Peters was terrible last year! It is not an overstatement....He flat out sucked....We all have seen players bounce back from poor years but, I just have a bad feeling about the move. You don't let a front line LT move for as little as they got him for.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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Peters was terrible last year! It is not an overstatement....He flat out sucked....We all have seen players bounce back from poor years but, I just have a bad feeling about the move. You don't let a front line LT move for as little as they got him for.
Well, as we all know, the Bills are just the KINGS of great moves, right?
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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LT is past his prime.....Insert Marion Barber and Maurice Jones-Drew.....
He may be past his prime, but he is still a more balanced threat than either of those two. Barber is a good receiver out of the backfield, but still isn't the receiver and not as balanced as LT, who is just as much of a threat receiveing as he is running. Its not a knock o Barber, I love watching him play, but he simply isn't as balanced as LT. MJD is another story, the argument can be made, as he has the most all-purpose yards for a RB since he came into the leage, so I can't argue with that. I really like both these RBs though.
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