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View Poll Results: NFC East vs. NFC North: Who Would Win In A Head-to-Head Matchup?
NFC East 43 41.75%
NFC North 60 58.25%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-17-2009, 06:03 PM    (permalink
Brothgar
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hero View Post

Strange that Eli's the easily the most clutch QB in the east and he's the reason the NFC East sucks.

Most clutch does not mean best.


I guess having one of the highest totals for 4th quarter comeback wins since he was drafted does that for a guy, I mean what good QB needs to make late game comebacks or perform well with the game on the line? But I see the otherside's point, HE THROWS INTERZEPTIONZZ!!1!!1!!


Teams make comebacks not QBs. I find if funny how the media, the statisticians, and the fans forget that. Also in order to have 4th quarter comebacks there is one thing you really need. And that is to be behind after 3 quarters.





As for Newman there's a difference between trying not to seem biased and picking the inferior player. If Tnew could stay healthy for 16 games he'd definitely be on par with Shelden Brown and Corey Webster, but when was the last time that happened?


Personally I'm not a huge fan of Corey Webster to begin with I would have likely taken both Samuel and T-New over Webster but that's just me I 'm not killing anyone for the choice.
These words are coming from THE biggest Donny Mc hater on the board and maybe on the planet. Eli is not better than McNabb honestly I don't love any of them I would be tempted to put John Kitna as the best QB in that division. Eli throws the ball too high Wickett used the David Tyree catch as a reason for Eli being up there. Tyree needed a rocket up his ass to catch that ball half a second late or a little less of a jump and that ball is going the other way. Remember the title of the clip is David Tyree's amazing catch not Eli Manning's amazing throw. Granted for that one playoff run the year before last he looked like the best QB in the league. But (because they are in the division) I get to watch a ton of Giants games each season. Eli isn't that impressive.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Good link.

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Unlike the original which had Giants in almost all the slots. Clear bias imo
The Giants won the division by 2.5 games, so there's probably a reason why the NFC East's roster would have so many Giants.
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Who the **** put Naufahu Tahi on the team?
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Whoever put East's team together is a joke.
very true indeed
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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very true indeed
Yes.

QB has to be McNabb
RB should be Portis
FB should be Leonard Weaver
LT should be Samuels
C should be Andre Gurode
RG should be Shawn Andrews
WLB should be Rocky McIntosh

I don't think the NFC East team looks good on paper because they are strongest in the trenches (Least flashy). But if you think about what will be happening, the NFC East's run game would own everyone with a combination of Portis, Westbrook, Jacobs, Barber and Jones.

The receivers are weak but that is because the teams just did a clean sweep and got younger guys. When Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham and Ramses Barden all develop the NFC East offense will be deadly. Plus with Roy Williams getting a year to learn the system and be the #1 target, he should be good.

The pass rush is great with Haynesworth, Ratliff and Bunkley inside and with Cole, Carter, Osi, Tuck and Kiwi on the outside.

Plus add in all the depth at corner in Asante Samuel, T-Newman, Carlos Rogers and DeAngelo Hall and the corners are shut down.

The safties are good as well with Laron Landry being one of the NFL's best safeties and Mikell being an all-pro with Chris Horton, Ken Hamlin and Kenny Phillips all as back-ups this team has the most depth of any of these all-division teams. The NFC East isn't flashy it is a gritty and hardnosed division where games are won and lost in the trenches and the team should reflect that.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Crickett, you're not very bright, are you? You think one play makes up for the hundreds of bad ones I've seen him make.

I know Jason Peters let up 11 1/2 sacks, but I also know he went to the ProBowl to be a LT in the AFC. AFC has a lot better competition at LT if you noticed. Matt Light, Ryan Clady, Jake, Long, Joe Thomas, and Michael Roos to name a few. What does this mean? He is a pretty good LT, and coaches/players noticed. Here is a breakdown of every sack he "let up": http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=127203

I didnt complain about the RB selection, I just changed it to bring a little diversity to the All NFCE team. Unlike the original which had Giants in almost all the slots. Clear bias imo
I don't think Eli's made hundreds of bad plays in the NFL, he used to force things a lot but that stopped when we went on our SB run, last year you didn't see him ever making simply boneheaded decisions with the ball and he has regularly lead us for late game scores when we've needed them.

If you think that making the probowl somehow negates the fact that Peters was atrocious last season you're extremely naive. I lived in buffalo until two weeks ago and I got to see every glorious whiff, and Jason just wasn't a good tackle last season. Yes he has talent, yes before last season he was an elite tackle and yes he can easily bounce back but this is an all-pro team, and last year Jason Peters didn't deserve to make any all-pro team, not even if we were to consider buffalo a part of the canadian football league.

What giants made the team that don't deserve it? If you want to change eli for donovan that's fine, but don't act like Snee or O'Hara aren't more than worthy of a spot. And considering how bad all of the east's LTs were last year with Flozell being done, Jason Peters deciding he wanted to know what getting dominated all year was like and Samuel having lost a step, so to speak, due to his injuries and age. Diehl wasn't an exceptional pass blocker and as an LT that's often what we look for first, but given the weak competition, the progress DD made in that area and his tremendous run blocking and I don't think it's absurd to put him on such a list. I think everyone else is pretty clear why they deserved their spots, While Weaver and Sellers are good strong FBs who can run the ball and are versatile Hedgecock's a very good blocker who's certainly no worse than either one. If you think there's some pro-Giants bias then sure take him off, but at least recognize that the difference in performance is miniscule enough were you're just picking on personal preference. And I don't think any explanation is needed for the giants defenders on the list.

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Originally Posted by broth223 View Post
These words are coming from THE biggest Donny Mc hater on the board and maybe on the planet. Eli is not better than McNabb honestly I don't love any of them I would be tempted to put John Kitna as the best QB in that division. Eli throws the ball too high Wickett used the David Tyree catch as a reason for Eli being up there. Tyree needed a rocket up his ass to catch that ball half a second late or a little less of a jump and that ball is going the other way. Remember the title of the clip is David Tyree's amazing catch not Eli Manning's amazing throw. Granted for that one playoff run the year before last he looked like the best QB in the league. But (because they are in the division) I get to watch a ton of Giants games each season. Eli isn't that impressive.
*shrug* I agree and disagree, sure most clutch doesn't mean best but that was in response to the comment that eli somehow would be the down fall of this team if it were ever assembled.

And again I agree that team's make comebacks and without the receivers to catch teh ball or the D to make stops or the OL to block, etc. nothing would happen but Eli runs the offense in the clutch and we run so much more smoothly than we do with Killdrive making the calls, and eli doesn't do it all himself he does orchestrate everything in a remarkable way. His drives are his, they're not just the teams they are distinctly Eli because of how he runs us in those situations.

I hear the skepticism on Webster but he's been truly exceptional since he became a starter again in time for our superbowl run. His stats, I know CB stats are stupid, but his stats aren't an accident or simply the result of our pass rush, largely because our pass rush was just good this year with kiwi playing at 240 and osi injured. Based solely on last season I can't rank anyone in the east outside of Shelden Brown, who was just as remarkable last season, above him, especially not only a solid cover corner in Samuel or an injury prone guy like Newman.

I don't really mind people ranking Donovan over Eli, now if the giants traded Eli for Donovan I'd be furious, but for this I don't really care, I was just debating the notion that Eli somehow "ruins" this team. Which is preposterous, he may not be the most impressive QB, but he's stopped forcing things and has become a very a good QB who's just money when it matters most.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Madison Hedgecock is DEFINITELY worse than Sellers and Weaver. Weaver and Sellers can do more than just block, Hedgecock has proven little ability to do that. Not to mention that Sellers and Weaver are both similar blockers to Hedgecock as well (I would say Hedgecock is the best out of all them at blocking, but last in receiving and running).

You obviously didnt look at the link I gave on Jason Peters. Every single sack he "let up" was broken down. If you watched, you would see most of the sacks are given up early in the season (right after his holdout), some were not his fault (for example a guy takes a hard step to the outside so he goes with him, then the defender goes inside and Peters expects help from Dockery that he never gets), and others were just sheer hustle plays, where the defender never gave up and the QB held the ball for too long ending up with an eventual sack.

Statistically Webster was a top 5 CB last season, probably top 3. But so was Sheldon Brown. Terrance Newman has been a top 15 CB consistently.

Snee and O'Hara have actual arguements to be on the team, and I would probably give O'Hara the C spot because Gurode has some trouble snapping shotgun. But Snee has a TON of competition at G. If I were to include Snee, I would take out Shawn Andrews because of his injury last season, not because of performance.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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I'll play

QB- Donovan McNabb
RB- Clinton Portis
FB- Mike Sellars
WR- Roy Williams
WR- Santana Moss
WR- DeSean Jackson
TE- Jason Witten
OT-Chris Samuels
G- Chris Snee
C-Andre Gurode
G-Shawn Andrews
OT- David Diehl

3-4

DE-Justin Tuck
NT-Albert Haynesworth
DE- Broderick Bunkley
OLB- Osi
MLB-Lond Fletcher
MLB-Antonio Pierce
OLB-Demarcus Ware
CB- Sheldon Brown
CB- Asante Samuel
NB- Carlos Rogers
S-Chris Horton
S-LaRon Landry
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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S-Chris Horton
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Epic fail? The SS position is probably the most interchangeable piece of this puzzle. Mikell was good, but I think Horton was every bit as good, and yes I watched both play this year.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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Horton was every bit as good
Except when he wasn't. Mikell had 17 more tackles, 2 more forced fumbles, 1 more sack and four more passes defended. Mikell was so good that he was named defensive MVP of a defense that finished third in total defense and fourth in scoring defense. Mikell's play is what allowed Brian Dawkins to play so close to the LOS so much.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Except when he wasn't. Mikell had 17 more tackles, 2 more forced fumbles, 1 more sack and four more passes defended. Mikell was so good that he was named defensive MVP of a defense that finished third in total defense and fourth in scoring defense. Mikell's play is what allowed Brian Dawkins to play so close to the LOS so much.
Dude, Horton didn't start until what week 5 and missed a couple games due to injury. Good for Mikell for putting up those stats but he barely outplayed Horton after Horton had a late start and missed two games. I'm not taking anything away from Mikell but Horton was better.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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We have different definitions of the word "better", I guess.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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Crickett, you're not very bright, are you? You think one play makes up for the hundreds of bad ones I've seen him make.
If Ryan Leaf returned to the San Diego Chargers and somehow, someway, lead them on a game winning drive in the Superbowl, yes, that would make up for everything the biggest bust in NFL history has ever done. It really would. Tremendous success makes people forget failure. Don't believe me? Just ask Phil Simms.

Secondly.

Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles
G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2008 New York Giants 16 16 289 479 60.3 3,238 6.8 21 10 27 174 86.4 20 10 0.5 1 5 2

Whats so bad about this season?


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I know Jason Peters let up 11 1/2 sacks, but I also know he went to the ProBowl to be a LT in the AFC. AFC has a lot better competition at LT if you noticed. Matt Light, Ryan Clady, Jake, Long, Joe Thomas, and Michael Roos to name a few.
1. Ryan Clady (Broncos) 0.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
2. Michael Roos (Titans) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
5. Jake Long (Dolphins) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
17. Joe Thomas (Browns) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
23. Matt Light (Pats) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
31. Jason Peters (Bills) 11.5 sacks allowed (13 starts)

Do you notice the slight difference between the first four out of the six people you listed there and Jason Peters?


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I didnt complain about the RB selection, I just changed it to bring a little diversity to the All NFCE team. Unlike the original which had Giants in almost all the slots. Clear bias imo
You're right. You didn't complain about the RB selection. My mistake. However, you did put the running back with the least yards out of the four starting running backs in the NFC East. So you fail.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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Want me to be awesome and give my team? well i dont care what you think and will anyway:

QB: Eli (shoot me I'm a homer, but it's hardly a stretch)
RB: Westbrook. under-rated and shits on the Giants. Imagine if he had an actual playcaller? wowzers
FB: Hedgecock. he's a Giant with epic win name.
WR: Roy Williams
WR: Santana Moss
WR: Steve Smith
WR: Desean Jackson
--damn, that WR corp flows. The big #1 with Roy, speedy compliment in Moss, slot guy/clutch 3rd down guy in Smith, and deep threat in DJax. I win!
TE: Witten. I hate him, but had to put him here.
LT: Samuels
LG: Diehl- move him inside, epic interior line win. Throw Jacobs and Portis in with up the gut carries and I just won the Super Bowl. good day
C: O'Hara
RG: Snee
RT: I guess Andrews...idk. slim pickin's here

DEFENSE
DE: Osi
DT: Fat Al
DT: Bunkley/Robbins/Canty. It doesn't matter. I'm tired
DE: Tuck
OLB: Ware
MLB: Fletcher
OLB: Boley
CB: T-New
CB: Webster
S: Kenny Phillips
S: Laron Landry
K: Folk
P: Feagles
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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CB: T-New
S: Kenny Phillips
Your secondary sucks.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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Your secondary sucks.
Kenny Phillips is epic win. Yea, probably should be Samuel, but I put enough smelly eagles on there!

go into nickel and dime sets and that defense rapes. Fat Al shuts down the run on 1st and maybe 2. Nickel sets of Webster-Samuel-TNew with rushers of Osi, Tuck, Fat Al and Ware coming from somewhere? win.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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Kenny Phillips is epic win. Yea, probably should be Samuel, but I put enough smelly eagles on there!

go into nickel and dime sets and that defense rapes. Fat Al shuts down the run on 1st and maybe 2. Nickel sets of Webster-Samuel-TNew with rushers of Osi, Tuck, Fat Al and Ware coming from somewhere? win.
Samuel is a CB, not a SS. Mikell should be the SS.

Dime sets would probably best. You could make use of the great DB depth on the team.

CB- Asante Samuel
NB- Sheldon Brown (better suited for the nickel than Samuel)
FS- LaRon Landry
SS- Quintin Mikell
DB- Carlos Rogers
CB- Corey Webster

I dare you to pass on that lineup.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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Samuel is a CB, not a SS. Mikell should be the SS.

Dime sets would probably best. You could make use of the great DB depth on the team.

CB- Asante Samuel
NB- Sheldon Brown (better suited for the nickel than Samuel)
FS- LaRon Landry
SS- Quintin Mikell
DB- Carlos Rogers
CB- Corey Webster

I dare you to pass on that lineup.
i know. i didn't clarify. Kenny Phillips is epic win.

I should've put Samuel for T-New.

Kenny>>>>>>Mikell. why? because of da U factor.

oh and the pass rush would be Osi-Tuck-Fat Al-Ware. epic win.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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I should've put Samuel for T-New.
Samuel's the second-best corner on his own team.
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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Madison Hedgecock is DEFINITELY worse than Sellers and Weaver. Weaver and Sellers can do more than just block, Hedgecock has proven little ability to do that. Not to mention that Sellers and Weaver are both similar blockers to Hedgecock as well (I would say Hedgecock is the best out of all them at blocking, but last in receiving and running).

You obviously didnt look at the link I gave on Jason Peters. Every single sack he "let up" was broken down. If you watched, you would see most of the sacks are given up early in the season (right after his holdout), some were not his fault (for example a guy takes a hard step to the outside so he goes with him, then the defender goes inside and Peters expects help from Dockery that he never gets), and others were just sheer hustle plays, where the defender never gave up and the QB held the ball for too long ending up with an eventual sack.

Statistically Webster was a top 5 CB last season, probably top 3. But so was Sheldon Brown. Terrance Newman has been a top 15 CB consistently.

Snee and O'Hara have actual arguements to be on the team, and I would probably give O'Hara the C spot because Gurode has some trouble snapping shotgun. But Snee has a TON of competition at G. If I were to include Snee, I would take out Shawn Andrews because of his injury last season, not because of performance.
I'll argue that Hedgecock is a notably better blocker, Sellers is a very good blocker and I know Weaver's not inept himself but he's a cut above the rest in the east and when I think Fullback I think lead blocker flying into the hole and knocking linebackers the **** out of the way. He isn't a very good receiver but none of these full backs are good enough to warrant being on the field over Cooley on passing downs so that factor isn't that significant.

I read you're link but what you fail to comprehend is that Peters let a lot of pass rushers get by that didn't collect sacks but only because of Trent's athleticism and a quick passing game. And even in the running game he let defenders through way more than an elite tackle should ever let happen. Thus I can't see how you can put this guy on some sort of all-pro team, he could very well be the best LT this coming season in the east, but last season he was terrible.

I work around the snee, davis, andrews dilemma by taking a page out of the iggles book and moving Shawn out to RT and having Snee and Davis man the guard spots.

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I'll play

QB- Donovan McNabb
RB- Clinton Portis
FB- Mike Sellars
WR- Roy Williams
WR- Santana Moss
WR- DeSean Jackson
TE- Jason Witten
OT-Chris Samuels
G- Chris Snee
C-Andre Gurode
G-Shawn Andrews
OT- David Diehl

3-4

DE-Justin Tuck
NT-Albert Haynesworth
DE- Broderick Bunkley
OLB- Osi
MLB-Lond Fletcher
MLB-Antonio Pierce
OLB-Demarcus Ware
CB- Sheldon Brown
CB- Asante Samuel
NB- Carlos Rogers
S-Chris Horton
S-LaRon Landry
AP doesn't deserve to be on this list over Stewart or Fletcher, hell he wasn't that much better than Bradie James if I'm being brutally honest.

Samuel over Webster? I know Samuel makes more plays on the ball but webster was a magnificent cover corner, with his better size he could handle the bigger matchups that Sheldon can't and you've got a pair of near shut down corners. I think I'd have Samuel in there as the third corner because he is a different type of corner and is very good at what he does, but he's not a very good cover corner.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:32 AM    (permalink
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We have different definitions of the word "better", I guess.
Well do you think Horton would have had better stats than Mikell had he started the entire season?
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Well do you think Horton would have had better stats than Mikell had he started the entire season?
Maybe, but he also didn't have the same type of supporting cast around him and played a different role. Mikell was basically the FS last year to allow Dawkins to roam while Horton got to be more of a traditional SS. Neither choice is terrible, I guess. I just feel like Mikell is absurdly underrated.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...arts_agai.html

Webster sucked ass until very late 2007 when he got back into the lineup due to Madisons injury. 2005,2006,most of 2007 on the scout team Webster was a disappointment. Then he did very well in 2008. Thats all I was saying ScottyD and its the truth about Webster that he struggled for majority of 3 years so don't tell me I don't know anything about Webster just because I'm not a Giants fan. One studly year for Webster whereas Samuel was doing very well in New England at that time and still had a more than solid year in Philly this year. The time on the pine did Webster some good though as he got to learn behind Madison and the Giants pass rush being awesome helps some too. Hope he keeps it up in 2009.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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i believe it had to do with the system he was in. I remember he sucked in zone coverage
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