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Old 05-19-2009, 03:15 AM    (permalink
Arsenal
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I don't get why people say he has a bad work ethic, he's always been an extremely hard worker. Just because someone hasn't lived up to their draft position doesn't mean they are lazy, sometimes they are just picked too high.

He'll never live up his pick number but he can still be a solid cog in an offense. He's an absolute beast when he's blocking, just ask Joey Porter. I still think he can be a really good end-zone target and a solid receiver but needs to work on getting the ball better, like Paranoidmoonduck said he just doesn't look like a natural pass catcher.

He is one of Mike Singletery's favorite players (contrary to popular belief) and from all indications Vernon is working his ass off and being a leader in the off-season, so we will have to see how that translates this year.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:32 AM    (permalink
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You know you look at the kind of firepower the 9ers can bring to the table (I have big respect for Josh Morgan, and obviously Bruce, Crabtree, Davis and Gore are in there too.) and you have to wonder why they have such trust in Shaun Hill. The guy might pan out, but seriously they needed to try a little harder to bring somebody in.
Who was available to bring in, really? A rookie would have set us back. Warner wasn't going to sign with us. Cutler was under contract and he would have cost way too much to acquire. Hill has played very well and deserves a shot at being a starter.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:33 AM    (permalink
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What?

Matt Hasselbeck only played in 7 games last year. Only 1 of Carlson's 5 TDs was from Hasselbeck, the other 4 were from Seneca Wallace and Charlie Frye.

Not sure why you're bringing up QB play. John Carlson put up better numbers as a rookie than Vernon Davis ever has with not much better of a QB.
But with Hasselbeck at quarterback, Carlson should receive a boost in his statistics. If Hasselbeck is healthy, the Seahawks have a chance to have a good season. And that means more attention to your team. Which helps Carlson.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:43 AM    (permalink
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Jeremy Shockey 2.0 and I still love the shock. Come in as great athletes who weren't good blockers, became excellent blockers while injuries impaired their ability to contribute in the passing game as much as they should, mixed with poor focus which leads to drops.
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:25 AM    (permalink
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Just a word on Shaun Hill, he led Maryland to the Orange Bowl his senior season, the same year he quarterbacked the TErps to an outright ACC title.

He may not have been an elite prospect coming into the league, but IMO he's a big-time gamer and has the head and psychological makeup to be a very steady NFL signal caller.
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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Poor coaching and improper use have led to Davis not living up to his potential. Now that Coach Singletary is in charge, expect to see a change in the play of Vernon Davis. Singletary has already put his foot in VD's back-side and let him know he won't go for the "it's all about me" mentality.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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Vernon Davis can be a Pro Bowler if he wants to be.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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In Madden he is.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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Davis' struggles really have much more to do with his attitude, terrible hands, and terrible route-running than they do the quarterbacking.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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hes a body catcher.. thats his biggest problem. if he caught the balls with his hands more hed have more catches and the qbs would probably have more confidence in him.

im still insanely impressed with his blocking though.. during the dolphins game he did a better job of blocking joey porter one on one than barry sims did.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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hes a body catcher.. thats his biggest problem. if he caught the balls with his hands more hed have more catches and the qbs would probably have more confidence in him.

im still insanely impressed with his blocking though.. during the dolphins game he did a better job of blocking joey porter one on one than barry sims did.
I've always considered VD a Mr. "Manos de Piedros", Hands of Stone type guy.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Dallas Clark ... It's time.
This season is his best chance yet, I think. No Harrison to take away looks/touches, which could lead to better production ala 2007, and Tony Gonzalez is in the NFC (sorry to say he did slip my mind, d021). But if he doesn't make it, he doesn't make it.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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I've always considered VD a Mr. "Manos de Piedros", Hands of Stone type guy.
Piedras, not piedros.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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I've always considered VD a Mr. "Manos de Piedros", Hands of Stone type guy.
I'm sure he can catch better than this guy

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Old 05-19-2009, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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I thought Vernon Davis would be a bust the second he got drafted.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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I remember when he came out of Maryland everyone was worried about whether or not he could block. Well.. He certainly can do that.

If you were to tell me he would be this kind of blocker this early in his career I would have said he's the best TE in the game. I have no idea what the problem is in San Francisco, but someone deserves some blame on that coaching staff.

I don't get to see too many Niner games, but he's being under utilized and not coached good enough, clearly. I refuse to believe it's his work ethic, because he went from not understanding how to block to being a complete monster.

He's either going to need a new team to fill his potential or he's going to get it done this year under Singletary. We will see.

I'm still buying the potential. Call me delusional if you may..
+1

I buy into his potential and work ethic big time. It's not like he hasn't made nice plays when he's had the ball in his hands, he just doesn't have the ball in his hands that often.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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If he played every game like he played against the Eagles this past year, he'd be a Pro Bowler.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Maybe this is his year maybe the next. I wouldn't exactly call him a bust but to each his own..
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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+1

I buy into his potential and work ethic big time. It's not like he hasn't made nice plays when he's had the ball in his hands, he just doesn't have the ball in his hands that often.
I am not calling him a bust yet because in 2007, when he was healthy and got the ball thrown to him, he showed a lot of potential and put him decent numbers. In 2006 he was injured and a rookie and last year Martz didn't really call many plays that put the ball into his hands. But the problem is that even when the ball is supposed to come to him he runs the wrong route or drops the pass. Those mistakes are on him and no one else.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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It would be because of Matt Hasselbeck, not because Carlson is necessarily a better tight end. Not to take anything away from Carlson, he's a good player. I just don't think he's head over heels better than Vernon Davis.

Really, Davis has been a victim of under-utilization and poor quarterback play his entire tenure in San Francisco. When he's given the opportunity to shine, he has shown he has the power to dominate. He does have his issues though. There have been reports of him being a prima donna type, and his hands aren't that great. But he can be a gamebreaker in this league. If he were on a team with a much stable quarterback situation, I'm sure he would have already made a Pro Bowl easily.

He's a little bit slimmer in training camp now and by the looks of what has been said and heart, Jimmy Raye does plan to use him more in the offense as a pass catching target and not just a blocker like Martz did. Shaun Hill has provided pretty decent quarterback play thus far, so that helps. If Hill is the starter and plays like he did last season for the eight games he started, then Davis may finally have a breakout season. It might be a little difficult though still since Morgan, Bruce, and Crabtree could take away looks from Davis' way.
This is a pretty good assessment of Davis IMO. Martz's offense doesn't utilize the TE as a pass receiver so he was lost playing under Martz. His problem remains the weak QBing that San Fran has. It is tough for anybody to put up great pass catching #'s with a mediocre QB throwing you the ball.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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In all honestly, look who he's had passing to him? Alex Smith? Shaun Hill (For part of the season, in all honesty, the guy can put up numbers).

Am I missing someone? Alex Smith is just horrible, I have no idea how you can become so bad being in the NFL. But he's overcome the odds and is terrible, just cut him and get it over with, it's not going to get better. With (hopefully) Shaun Hill starting next year, Davis will put up some good numbers. Enough for the Pro Bowl? Probably not, if not this year, I'd say definitely in 2010. That's when Davis could make the Pro Bowl.

All the talent and potential in the world, he just needs a guy like Singletary to push him, and a Quarterback like Hill to get him the ball.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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He'll never make pro bowl on the 9ers
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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I'd sure love to take a shot on him. One of the best blocking tight ends in the game already, with the potential to break a big play at any moment, and the upside to turn into one of the very best receiving tight ends....
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:17 PM    (permalink
abaddon41_80
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Davis would only be marginally better than he is right now if Peyton Manning was the 49ers quarterback. He sucks, as a receiving tight end, and will continue to suck unless he learns how run routes and catch.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:29 PM    (permalink
Timbathia
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As a pass-catching TE, Davis has been a huge bust (partly his fault and partly the fault of the OC). However, as a blocking TE he has been hugely successful. This means no pro-bowls though, because TEs go to pro-bowl based on fantasy stats and not their true value to a team. If they went on true value to a team then Daniel Graham would be a pro-bowler every year.

I dont see him getting the kind of receiving stats he would need to make a pro-bowl anytime soon.
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