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Old 05-25-2009, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CC.SD View Post
I hear he stole Tebow's girlfriend online.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHA, awesome in so many ways.


LMAO@him changing 'wtf' to *heck loll.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I hate that he throws flat footed so often for a guy who is well protected. He's an arm thrower...I'm not a fan of that.

W/e...he's not my favorite QB prospect but theres definitely stuff to work with.

Lol at erinandrews always being DTF.
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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One thing that's glaring in that video is that he has ALL day to throw. You rarely see a defender within three yards of him. He has excellent accuracy, but who wouldn't with that kind of time. There were also a lot of short throws and YAC. I'm not very impressed with Bradford. There's nothing about the kid that makes him stand out. His offensive line and receivers are a different story though.

One thing that that video doesn't show is his tendency to look to the sideline to change a play. That really grinds my gears. He's been in the system for three years, and he doesn't audible a measly play at the LOS? He redshirted and is older than Stafford, and Stafford was audibling as an 18 year old true freshman in the SEC. It all goes back to that infernal spread offense. It just doesn't help develop a QB the right way.:(
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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I agree there is just the slightest whiff of Tim Couch arond Bradford, but for the most part it's being blown out of proportion. He doesn't have dominant tools, but i don't think his arm is any weaker than Matt Ryan and that turned out pretty well. The accuracy is there and he's got a good head on his shoulders...he probably does need to speed up his game because he won't get elite protection like that in the NFL. But overall I think he'll grade out as a cornerstone.

Erin Andrews is in fact always DTF, just look at that glint in her eye.

p.s. Rivers' 3/4 delivery>yuo
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Why take Bradford when you can get the nearly identical Rusty Smith in the mid/late rounds?
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Thank you. It seems like draftniks have a really bad habit of picking and choosing which prospects to downgrade for playing in a spread system. It hurts Tebow, but Bradford is not affected at all? Harvin will never learn to run routes, but Jeremy Maclin will? Come on guys.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Thank you. It seems like draftniks have a really bad habit of picking and choosing which prospects to downgrade for playing in a spread system. It hurts Tebow, but Bradford is not affected at all? Harvin will never learn to run routes, but Jeremy Maclin will? Come on guys.
The difference is Bradford is for the most part a pocket passer, while Tebow is like a power version of Vince Young. Similarly, Maclin played most if not all of his time as a WR, whereas Harvin split between RB and WR. I think that's a result of grading the prospects individually.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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I find it hard to take someone too seriously when they throw the level of competition argument out there. There are starting QB's from all levels of competition in the NFL. The most recent Super Bowl winning QB played in the MAC. The Super Bowl losing QB didn't even play Div 1 football. Trying to make the Big 12 out as weak competition is a joke.

Also, Having a good supporting cast tends to happen at big time programs. If having good players around a QB in college prevented them from being good pros then Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Carson Palmer wouldn't be where they are. If you buy the supprting cast argument then you'd never want a QB from a big time program...

The highly overused level of competition and supporting cast arguments are garbage
Well, Mark Sanchez has had this stigma as well -- if you wanna call it that instead of a negative. All USC QBs over the last handful of years have had that concern. He's also from a program where they haven't produced an NFL starter at QB since Carson Palmer. That should be a red flag. It isn't going to the be the end all and be all for drafting him. It is something to consider.

Not one QB you mentioned had the same kind of talent OU has had over the last two years. Not just talent, but NFL talent. Carson Palmer didn't have that. USC wasn't the same USC we've seen over the last few year when Palmer was there. They were bad (for USC standards) for the majority of his time in college.

This is not a joke. Look at the last four years. The top 3 QBs from the draft over the last four years. Just look at 'em. Jay Cutler. Matt Ryan. Matthew Stafford. What do they all have in common? They were surrounded by either poor or inexperienced players. They didn't have NFL stars playing at NFL levels compared to spread out defenses where they could easily play some nice little pitch and catch all day, and then watch their WRs run for 40 yards. Those guys faced adversity. Those guys went into places like Swamp, VT and Alabama, and went in with a team that they had to carry on their backs. Battle tested goes a long way and being in their shoes is something that helps you at the NFL level. Getting your ass kicked in college isn't always a bad thing. Sitting in a perfect pocket with all day to throw and putting up 60 points every game just isn't going to help him. Give me a guy like Jay Cutler who has to stand in there, looking down the barrel in the face of a blitz and pressure in his face, know he's going to get hit and step into his throw. I don't want a guy that sees this in the two games he loses about 5 times in each of them.

I posted a video showing all his throws from a game. Watch it. Watch it multiple times. Just ask yourself the questions I was asking. If your answers are positive and you like them, then that's okay.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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This is not a joke. Look at the last four years. The top 3 QBs from the draft over the last four years. Just look at 'em. Jay Cutler. Matt Ryan. Matthew Stafford. What do they all have in common? They were surrounded by either poor or inexperienced players. They didn't have NFL stars playing at NFL levels compared to spread out defenses where they could easily play some nice little pitch and catch all day, and then watch their WRs run for 40 yards. Those guys faced adversity. Those guys went into places like Swamp, VT and Alabama, and went in with a team that they had to carry on their backs. Battle tested goes a long way and being in their shoes is something that helps you at the NFL level. Getting your ass kicked in college isn't always a bad thing. Sitting in a perfect pocket with all day to throw and putting up 60 points every game just isn't going to him. Give me a guy like Jay Cutler who has to stand in there, looking down the barrel in the face of a blitz and pressure in his face, know he's going to get and step into his throw. I don't want a guy that sees in the two games he loses about 5 times in each.
.

Matt Stafford only had a 1st round RB, 2nd round WR, and very talented underclassmen who could be 1st day picks.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Though I'm not the biggest Bradford fan, I defintiely think he is worth a first round grade right now, just not top 5 like some people are saying. I'm not one to get enamored with measurables liek arm strength, but I think that is a legitimate concern for Bradford. It's not that it is weak, but it is average to slightly above, IMO, and it worries me that he is in a spread offense where his reads are much easier, and as a result, his throws are easier as well. I also don't like how OU's offense would get lined up, wait for the D, then they'd look to the coaches to either change the play or confirm it was OK. Bradford should be able to make those reads himself if he is an elite QB prospect.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I think looking to the sideline before changing the offensive play had more to do with Stoopes mico-managing Bradford, than his QB being unable to call an audible.

I'd love to hear Stoopes explain why he doesn't trust his all world QB to make that call.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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I agree with a lot of the analysis. I disagree on his accuracy. His accuracy redeems him as a prospect in my eyes. I'm not concerned about the history of the Oklahoma program, that stuff is superstition. I'm concerned about the system and the fact that he rarely goes through many reads. I'm concerned about the fact that he has all day to throw. When he jumps into the NFL game, he's going to have half as much time to make three times as many reads. That just doesn't bode well for him.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Before I dive into your points, this where you stand as a poster; you are coming off as full of yourself for "calling" the Maualuga fall. Also, your stance on Bradford is negative regardless of what anyone has to say so anything Bradford may do or has done will, in some way, be downplayed or degraded.

Let me go through the negatives you point out....

System QB

If you're going to bring up this aspect, you need to ignore the past of players like Jason White. You need to look at each individual player as that, an individual. Jason White battled injuries throughout his career and didn't have the physical tools to overcome the big question marks. Sam Bradford is Sam Bradford, not Jason White, so stop with the comparison.

I compare this situation similar to Texas Tech and their wideouts. Generally, Red Raider wideouts put up huge numbers, so they're part of the system, but occasionally you have one player that transcends the trend. That player this past year was Michael Crabtree and his abilities were greater than the system, which has produced wideouts with great numbers in the past. Oklahoma has had QBs with big numbers, but this time its different with Sam Bradford because he isn't just another QB, he's special.
I wasn't the one to call Maualuga's fall. I also said I wasn't the first to openly bash him, and I also said he ended up getting too much hate. He's a solid player and he'll be very good in Cincinnati. You don't take solid players in the top 10 though. I do think he's a better prospect than Sam Bradford. I don't hold a negative view of Bradford. It's a skeptical view. I bashed the living hell out of Matthew Stafford his second year, and then he proved me wrong his junior year and stepped his game up. He ended up being my top rated prospect overall. I said he was getting overrated because he has a big arm, and he was, but he just so happened to put it all together his junior year.

Never compared him to Jason White. I said he's in the same offense that produced non-NFL player and Heisman trophy winner, Jason White. It's your prerogative to ignore the system he plays in. It's something I'm going to take into consideration. When he turns out to be a bust, just remember there were glaring questions in his game that went either ignored or simply denied. And you'll have to learn from that. I learned my lesson with Vince Young. I had all these question marks in his game and the biggest question mark (system / development) went ignored. Probably because he put on the greatest show I've ever seen of any QB in the Championship game against USC. I became blinded by stats and highlights when he didn't throw the ball to his WRs at all. I'm still learning this whole process and I'm still learning from past mistakes in judgement.

He's special? Did he do anything special during the Texas Tech game?

What exactly makes him special?

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Level of competition

This was probably the most laughable of them all. Courtesy of Dan Hawkins, this is Division I football, this is the Big XII, not intramurals. Outside of the SEC, the athletes and players in the Big XII are the best in the nation, and they need to be recognized as such. Look at a defense like Missouri for example. Missouri has quite a bit of NFL talent on it, and Oklahoma and Sam Bradford were able to light them up for 62 points (34/49, 384 yards, 2 TDs). Even in the National Championship he didn't have the sexiest statistical game, but he proved more positives than he did negatives. He made alot of NFL throws, showed mobility and showed that he could handle a faster defense. Please don't bring up the level of competition because right behind the SEC, the Big XII has the best players and defenses to offer.
62 points against Missouri? Holt ****. My dick just moved.

He didn't have a great statistical game against Florida because he played a good defense that game. The only good defense he faced all year long.

Big 12 isn't for defense. If you think Bradford is facing legit defenses, then your opinion will hold none value in my book at all.

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Arm strength

Bradford's arm strength isn't special like Matthew Stafford, but I would say it's very comparable to Mark Sanchez. The arm strength would be a greater issue if Bradford wasn't so accurate, but his accuracy helps make up for any disadvantage that his arm strength may bring. I will be discussing the accuracy issue more below.
Sanchez had a stronger arm.

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Accuracy

I lied, the level of competition is the most laughable, this is. He is a pinpoint passer and is sick accuracy-wise compared to this year's #1 pick Matthew Stafford. You bring up struggling on accuracy on deeper throws but if you get a breakdown of a QBs accuracy on three levels (short, intermeditae, deep) the deep level will ALWAYS have the lowest accuracy. I'm not gonna say that he doesn't have area to improve here because he does, but on his deep throws he places the ball in a spot where only his receiver can make a play. He isn't missing those deep passes short and inside; if he was, then that would create greater concerns. He fits perfectly as West Coast QB and he reminds alot of Aaron Rodgers because of his ability to put the ball on the spot in the short and intermediate range, but still has some work to do on the deep ball.
I wasn't talking about just deep throws. I also said I wont hold that against him since he's only played two years. I don't expect him to be good on deep balls. Accuracy on tougher throws is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the swing passes to DeMarco Murray. Just because he doesn't miss that throw doesn't mean he's accurate.

It's easy to say he's accurate because it takes no evaluation or effort or time watching him. You just look at the stats, and say, "There ya go. He's accurate." You don't think Matthew Stafford would have increased his accuracy another 6% playing in that wide open offense with all those easy throws? Matt Stafford's accuracy isn't as good as Sam Bradford because he's asked to make throws that are more likely to go incomplete, because they're a lot more DIFFICULT. There's something called timing and anticipation on his throws. Bradford hits a guy after he gets open. Stafford throws it before he gets open. Sanchez did this too. As well as Matt Ryan. It's a big reason why those guys are going to be very good QBs at the next level.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Matt Stafford only had a 1st round RB, 2nd round WR, and very talented underclassmen who could be 1st day picks.
He had a great RB and a future NFL bust at WR and a bunch of very young guys who made mistakes that young players make. AJ Green is going to be great, but do you think he's a great route runner? One of Staffords INTs last year was all on Green because he ran a terrible route and the CB jumped it. Stafford trusted Green to get open and since Green gave **** effort on the play, it's a pick, but no one remembers that. There were numerous blown assignments for that young Georgia team.

Stafford made his mistakes as well. He was a junior who would have been better off staying another year (I think all QBs should stay 4 years). To even compare or begin to compare the talent level around Stafford and Bradford is a joke, and out of respect for Georgia and SEC football, I wont do it.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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WOAH...OU hasn't produced any pro QBs? Everyone should just blindly draft UCLA and Stanford QBs because they produced great QBs once.
Exactly what I'm saying.

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White didn't get drafted because he was always injured, and I wouldn't dare to compare the "huge stats". White may have one a Heisman, but Bradford had like 1500 more yards and 18 more TDs.
79 TDs and 19 INTs in two years as a starter for a guy who never even got a look at the NFL... That says something.

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I've watched almost every OU game for the last two years...I would say that Bradford is an accurate passer. Ignorant?
Yes.

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Also, make a thread to complain about him AFTER the season. His Oline is going to be inexpierenced, his starting receivers left, and he has an entire year to develop before the draft.
He's in a system that restricts his development. Unless Stopps starts implementing some throws that require some difficulty, he isn't going to be getting any better or change much.

Which is my whole point regarding the system QB / underdeveloped mentally negative.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Matt Stafford only had a 1st round RB, 2nd round WR, and very talented underclassmen who could be 1st day picks.
Underclassmen is the magic word here. All of his linemen were either freshmen (2 true, 1 redshirt) and sophomores (1 true, 1 redshirt). They were all either still wearing braces or looked like they didn't even shave yet. It doesn't matter how talented a true freshman lineman is, he's still a true freshman. Georgia's coach even said that instead of the linemen protecting the QB that Stafford was calling audibles that protected the linemen. Many people don't realize just how much Stafford had to do to buy enough time to be able get the ball to that 1st round RB and 2nd round WR.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:20 PM    (permalink
the decider13
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Exactly what I'm saying.


79 TDs and 19 INTs in two years as a starter for a guy who never even got a look at the NFL... That says something.


Yes.


He's in a system that restricts his development. Unless Stopps starts implementing some throws that require some difficulty, he isn't going to be getting any better or change much.

Which is my whole point regarding the system QB / underdeveloped mentally negative.
Maybe you should steer clear of calling people ignorant...just kinda makes you look like an ass. Especially with quite a few people disagreeing with you.

EDIT: What makes you so much smarter than all the other fans and scouts who have him ranked highly? You seem to think you are the only one with a valid opinion.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Never compared him to Jason White. I said he's in the same offense that produced non-NFL player and Heisman trophy winner, Jason White. It's your prerogative to ignore the system he plays in. It's something I'm going to take into consideration. When he turns out to be a bust, just remember there were glaring questions in his game that went either ignored or simply denied. And you'll have to learn from that. I learned my lesson with Vince Young. I had all these question marks in his game and the biggest question mark (system / development) went ignored. Probably because he put on the greatest show I've ever seen of any QB in the Championship game against USC. I became blinded by stats and highlights when he didn't throw the ball to his WRs at all. I'm still learning this whole process and I'm still learning from past mistakes in judgement.



62 points against Missouri? Holt ****. My dick just moved.

He didn't have a great statistical game against Florida because he played a good defense that game. The only good defense he faced all year long.

Big 12 isn't for defense. If you think Bradford is facing legit defenses, then your opinion will hold none value in my book at all.


Sanchez had a stronger arm.


I wasn't talking about just deep throws. I also said I wont hold that against him since he's only played two years. I don't expect him to be good on deep balls. Accuracy on tougher throws is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the swing passes to DeMarco Murray. Just because he doesn't miss that throw doesn't mean he's accurate.
You now have successfully brought up 2 QBs that are nothing like Bradford. Bradford can actually throw the ball, unlike young.

He didn't have a great statistical game against Florida because his WRs dropped passes. Two of the INTs were both off of dropped passes that should have been caught. Bradford was the only one on the offense playing at a NC level. Maybe you just looked at the stats? Highlights?

Big XII isn't the top defenses in the country, but it isn't like they are JV. They are still very good.

You are very much underestimating Bradford's arm.

Also, some of the other points about his great offensive line and weapons aren't going to be part of the equation this year. The top two WR both left, as well as 4/5 offensive lineman. If he struggles behind a mediocre line, then some of these points will be valid.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I love how people bring up Bradford's game against Florida as a knock against him. Stafford played 10 times worse than Bradford against Florida.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I love how people bring up Bradford's game against Florida as a knock against him. Stafford played 10 times worse than Bradford against Florida.
I don't know about you, but I was expecting a much poorer performance in the NC from Bradford. Considering how poorly Loadholt and Robinson played in front of him that night, I thought he did well. That Florida defense is filled with tons of NFL talent and very scary as well.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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You now have successfully brought up 2 QBs that are nothing like Bradford. Bradford can actually throw the ball, unlike young.

He didn't have a great statistical game against Florida because his WRs dropped passes. Two of the INTs were both off of dropped passes that should have been caught. Bradford was the only one on the offense playing at a NC level. Maybe you just looked at the stats? Highlights?

Big XII isn't the top defenses in the country, but it isn't like they are JV. They are still very good.
The first pick was a deflection by the CB. The second was just a great play by Black who took the ball away from the WR. Maybe if Bradford didn't hang the ball up in the air for 10 minutes it would have been completed. Maybe Johnson wouldn't have gotten laid out by Major Wright on the opening series if Bradford put some mustard on it, and stuck it in there like Matt Stafford or Jay Cutler do in their sleep.

Stop with the defense talk. For your own good.

9 of 12 teams gave up at least 30 points per game. Texas was the only team that allowed under 25 points a game. 11 of the 12 defenses in the SEC allowed less than 25 points per game.

9 teams gave up 400 yards a game. 0 SEC teams accomplished this feat. Arkansas would have been the third ranked defense in the Big 12. They finished dead last in the SEC and by a wide gap over Kentucky (11th ranked defense) who, statistically, would have finished first in the Big 12.

Yeah, Big 12 defense sucks.

Not debatable. Do not respond or try to debate anything I just said. You will look bad.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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The first pick was a deflection by the CB. The second was just a great play by Black who took the ball away from the WR. Maybe if Bradford didn't hang the ball up in the air for 10 minutes it would have been completed. Maybe Johnson wouldn't have gotten laid out by Major Wright on the opening series if Bradford put some mustard on it, and stuck it in there like Matt Stafford or Jay Cutler do in their sleep.

Stop with the defense talk. For your own good.

9 of 12 teams gave up at least 30 points per game. Texas was the only team that allowed under 25 points a game. 11 of the 12 defenses in the SEC allowed less than 25 points per game.

9 teams gave up 400 yards a game. 0 SEC teams accomplished this feat. Arkansas would have been the third ranked defense in the Big 12. They finished dead last in the SEC and by a wide gap over Kentucky (11th ranked defense) who, statistically, would have finished first in the Big 12.

Yeah, Big 12 defense sucks.

Not debatable. Do not respond or try to debate anything I just said. You will look bad.
So that has nothing to do with the Big XII offenses? And why are you talking about SEC defenses? Did I ever say they weren't the best?

You are right, I'm not gonna participate in this discussion. You are continually making yourself look dumber. Good luck being a pro scout rating Bradford out as a 4th round pick.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Give any good coach a month to prepare for an offense and they can shut it down. FWIW, Oklahoma was outplaying Florida in the first half. If anything, Bradford showed me more in the "national championship" than he did in the other games. He responded to the pressure fairly well. He never gave up after things didn't go his way. He was never tested like that in the regular season, even against Texas. He may not be a rah-rah type leader, but everyone else knows that he's in charge.
His game is going to get picked apart over the course of this season. His delivery is more 5/8 than 3/4. That is something he will probably have to adjust. He has taken snaps under center and executes the play-action well. Making the progressions quickly is something that every quarterback needs to learn, which is why there are so many busts. He is very accurate. He does not have a rocket arm, but he has a good arm (slightly below Ryan). I don't put too much stock into his numbers since a lot of those yards were YAC by the receivers. I think that he has the intelligence, accuracy and leadership to succeed.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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It is absolutely pointless to post a response or critique what you have to say because of anyone contributing to this thread, the most ignorant individual is you. If you are correct, down the road, about Bradford then props to you, but at this point it is all opinions, and you continue to dismiss what anyone has to say if those views do not line up with yours.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
abaddon41_80
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I don't know about you, but I was expecting a much poorer performance in the NC from Bradford. Considering how poorly Loadholt and Robinson played in front of him that night, I thought he did well. That Florida defense is filled with tons of NFL talent and very scary as well.
I never expect a poor performance from Bradford but I agree that, considering how terrible every OU linemen other than Trent Williams played, Bradford had a good game. People tend to act like Florida had a run of the mill SEC defense last year but the fact is that Florida had a defense almost on par with USC's, if you ask me, and not many quarterbacks could have done as well as Bradford against them.
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