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Old 05-26-2009, 10:34 AM    (permalink
scottyboy
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Mike Teel> Matt Stafford>BigBanger
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I don't disagree with the OP, here. I really don't like Bradford in the first round. He seems like a 4th round QB to me. Why is he projected #1 Overall and Erik Ainge went in the late-5th? And Ainge was/is better at the areas that are considered Bradford's strengths.

In the 2009 draft, Bradford was an easy first round pick because the QB class sucked. In 2010, the QB crop is very strong. Guys like Hiller, Smith, Hall, McCoy, Sneed, and a boat load of others are all contenders for the #1 QB status.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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I can't tell if some of the people in this thread are serious or not. I mean did nepg just basically say that Erik Ainge was more accurate and could read defenses better than Bradford? Really?
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Yes, I did. And he got it done in a pro style offense against the toughest defenses in college football.
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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It's funny you said he's mentally underdeveloped because I've always thought he looked special.

And LOL at the chat.
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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The one thing that really worries me about Bradford is the weird sidearm delivery. That stuff doesn't fly in the NFL. Name me the last QB with a delivery like that to be any good.

Watching Bradford on video, his sidearm delivery results in a lot of passes that are looped in there or thrown with lots of air under them. In the OU system, as was pointed out here, he had lots and lots of plays where he could throw passes like that to open areas and have wide open receivers running under them. In the NFL he will almost never have that.

I know he's also capable of throwing balls with some zip on them too, but again Banger is right in saying that those are generally in short to medium zones only.

I'm not going so far as to call Bradford a fourth-round pick, but it blew my mind in this recent draft to hear certain Lions fans say that Bradford would have been picked ahead of Stafford if he'd come out this year. That's ridiculous.



Anyone else see Jeff Garcia in Sam Bradford?
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Mike Teel> Matt Stafford>BigBanger
Mike Teels a little sissy boy, get over it
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else see Jeff Garcia in Sam Bradford?
Bradford is not any where near Garcia in terms of mobility.
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Old 05-26-2009, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I personally hope that Bradford proves his doubters wrong after reading this thread. He certainly doesn't suck at what he does - operate a college offense. Personally I think he has a lot of question marks too, but it's not his fault that he has great playmakers around him, or that his offensive system is considered "gimmicky", or that he faced a few questionable defenses. That just means, throw the stats out the window.

He still has two years of eligibility left and that is plenty of time to work out the kinks in his game. I think he is kinda similar to Rivers, but they are in completely different sitations. Rivers wasn't even considered a sure first rounder until the middle of his fifth season in college.

I think Bradford should definitely become a gym rat and try to get his body thicker and stronger to take those hits. No more playing golf in the offseason.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Not gonna bash you or anything BigBanger because you do make some good points. I just have some questions as a Rams fan:

1. The Rams are installing a WCO. If they stink it up this upcoming season and are in line to draft him, does the fact that their system relies on quick reads and accuracy (Bradfords strengths) and not a really big arm (Bradfords weakness), does this make the transition to the NFL easier for him? I basically mean, will his success be optimized to the max in our offense?
2. I would like to know how you have the eligible QBs for the draft ranked this season based on this analysis. From what I can tell, you probably have Snead ranked ahead of him don't you?
3. If you would take Bradford in the fourth round, where would you take McCoy (who I'm not a big fan of)?

The one thing I will say is you talk about some of his negatives like level of competition and system, then I guess you must have had Joe Flacco as going undrafted.
1. I don't know the Rams system, but any system that is going to play to Bradford's strengths... quick reads and quick throws is going to benefit him. I don't think he can throw the ball to the sideline though. He doesn't have the arm to make a throw from one hash to the sideline, which is a very long throw that takes a lot of arm strength. Why I have him as a 4th rounder is because of the time and development he's going to have to go through. Could he be a starter? Yeah, but I don't want to take him in round 1 and expect him to be my guy in year one or even year two or three.

2. From the QBs I've seen, none of them do anything for me. McCoy is also a 4th rounder in my book. Tebow is closer to a 5th rounder. Bradford has more potential than both of those guys. Right now I have Bradford as a 4th rounder with two years of playing under his belt. He can only go up in my book. I wont have him any lower unless he surprises everyone and stinks it up.

3. I'll give you a little scouting report on McCoy. McShay putting him in the top 10 is just stupid. It isn't going to happen.

He makes Bradford's arm look good. He has a Colt Brennan-esque sidearm delivery and since he doesn't have the size Bradford does, it's going to be a problem where it's not for Bradford. His mechanics are really bad and his footwork is going to be something that kills him, especially going from shotgun to under center. He's a much bigger project than Bradford. Texas coaching is atrocious. They have the rawest players in the country whether they're at DL or at QB (Orakpo the most recent). McCoy is a great college QB. Better than Bradford in my opinion, but he's also in one of those Big XII systems that creates very easy reads and easy throws. He's a project that's going to need a lot of time sitting on the bench and learning the system and doing all the work at the NFL level he should be doing now. Right now he's a fourth rounder in my book, but he could fall even lower than that for me. Even though I have both as 4th rounders, the difference between the two is very large since I see a lot more potential with Bradford than I do with McCoy. I don't expect to end up having them with the same grade by the end of the year. He does have great mobility and very good speed and athleticism. He can make a lot of things happen with his feet, but he looks to run when he's scrambling more than pass, so he's not Matt Ryan.

The thing I see with McCoy that I don't see with Bradford is a consistency to attempt more difficult throws and he completes a very high percentage of those throws. He does have very good accuracy and a very quick release. He will stick the ball into very tight zones pretty consistently. The big issue comes back to his arm strength. He gets away with a lot of throws in college he wont be able to at the next level where he just barely sticks a ball in that's nearly picked off. The NFL... it's INT not a completion. Even though he has as much physical ability and much more mobility, he doesn't have the same kind of NFL potential Sam Bradford does.


Sneed is by far the most talented QB that could be in next years class. From all the QBs I've seen, it's not close. He has more potential than just about everyone else. With that said, he's not anywhere near the level of Mark Sanchez, but he is going to get a lot better.

The Ohio State QB, Pryor, is a bigger, more talented version of Colt McCoy with a lot more potential.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Tebow for Heisman. Don't drag him through Bradford's mud.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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I understand that you don't like Bradford, but to say a guy who just won the Heisman and is still in college is a overdoing it a smidge, no?

I'd take him to run a WCO.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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I understand that you don't like Bradford, but to say a guy who just won the Heisman and is still in college is a overdoing it a smidge, no?

I'd take him to run a WCO.
He shouldn't have won the Heisman. He was one of three finalists. The other two guys both outplayed him that same season. It has to be a Heisman first.

He's not as good as people say he is. He doesn't suck, but he's just not as good as people are saying.

I don't think he'll drop like Colt or Andre Woodson, but for the sake of having another bust in the first round, hopefully he pulls a Brady Quinn or Brian Brohm.

All I'm saying is that once people (scouts) start to scout this guy, you'll hear people start talking rather negatively about him. You can watch an entire game (like the one on the first page) and not see one NFL caliber play from him. That's going to be a problem.
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Old 05-26-2009, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Hating on a guy because he mastered his offense really isn't a good argument.
Well, when that offense involves making one read per play and two on occasion, it doesn't bode well for him as an NFL prospect.

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What's wrong with a 6'4 220 QB with pinpoint accuracy thats extremely poised under pressure?
What pressure? Bradford had more time than almost anyone in college football last year.

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All of you chumps are overthinking his game. Sure he throws a lot of short passes, but what fuckinNFL QB doesn't?
Throwing around profanity makes you more right, you know. So good job on that point. The basic facts are NFL QBs make 3 to 4 reads per play routinely. This is not unusual. I've never seen Bradford make more than two. He stares down his targets and has all day to do it. Taking six seconds to make one read is a lot easier than taking three seconds to make three reads.
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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What pressure? Bradford had more time than almost anyone in college football last year.
Against Texas he had no time at all. He had a great game anyway and showed great mobility.
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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You guys are really selling Bradford short. He's not in a one or 2 read system at Oklahoma, the kid has an uncanny abilitiy to survey the whole field quickly and get rid of the ball.

Because he's able to make his reads so swiftly, it may look like it's a system with minimum reads, but Bradford chooses receivers based on coverage and patterns run.

And you may not think he's much of a pro prospect, BigBanger, but how can you say he didn't deserve the Heisman?

Did Tebow, McCoy, or Harrell really have better seasons than Bradford?

Personally I would have voted for McCoy, but I had no beef with Sam Bradford being chosen.

I don't see why you would let your 'objective' analysis of the flaws in his game overlap into a obvious bias against him.

He was a worthy Heisman candidate, and more than deserving of the award, which is all stats and W-L record anyway.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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I think my biggest knock on Bradford is that he's so stiff. I also think he's going to suffer a ton of injuries in the NFL if he doesn't get bigger and more athletic. His arms are very spindly...I'm guessing his listed weight is extremely generous.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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Against Texas he had no time at all. He had a great game anyway and showed great mobility.
I will give him that. I forgot about that game. However, one game of dealing with pressure doesn't convince me that he can deal with standing in an NFL pocket 16 games per year. The majority of the time, he has to deal with little to no pressure.
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Staubach12 View Post
I will give him that. I forgot about that game. However, one game of dealing with pressure doesn't convince me that he can deal with standing in an NFL pocket 16 games per year. The majority of the time, he has to deal with little to no pressure.
Most top QB prospects don't face much pressure in college. In fact, in recent memory, the only QB prospect I can think of that had faced a ton of pressure often is Jay Cutler. Obviously the more a QB can prove himself under pressure in college, the less that's a question heading to the pros, that said, considering it wasn't a question mark for one top QB prospect in recent memory, maybe it's a good thing that he hasn't faced a ton of pressure.
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Staubach12 View Post
Well, when that offense involves making one read per play and two on occasion, it doesn't bode well for him as an NFL prospect.
What pressure? Bradford had more time than almost anyone in college football last year.
Throwing around profanity makes you more right, you know. So good job on that point. The basic facts are NFL QBs make 3 to 4 reads per play routinely. This is not unusual. I've never seen Bradford make more than two. He stares down his targets and has all day to do it. Taking six seconds to make one read is a lot easier than taking three seconds to make three reads.
sorry if my language offended your little sensitive ears.
Yeah, Bradford has a dope O-Line, but saying he sucks because he only has to make a few reads on 1 play is ridiculous.
Who are you to say he only makes 2 reads a play??? I didn't know we had an OU coach in the house!
Theres a lot more that goes into it than what you see on TV FYI.
He stares down receivers, yeah, your right. But come on, thats his only negative.
He's better than McCoy, #2 behind Tebow, because he has great accuracy, great size for a QB, he's extremely efficient, HE KNOWS HIS OFFENSE, doesn't make silly mistakes, and throws a hella tight spiral.

Stop trying to bash a guy who consistently wins and makes good throws.

NFL coaches get paid to develop these guys into stars.
So to say Bradford sucks, is ********, he's a college star.

We'll see once hes on the 49ers how bad he really sucks.

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Old 05-27-2009, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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You have Tebow #1...your opinion/analysis is invalid.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by lordquas View Post
#2 behind Tebow
Maybe at TE...
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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You have Tebow #1...your opinion/analysis is invalid.
quoted for total truth. unless you have bonerz for jump passes, Tim Tebow should never, ever be near the top of any QB list.

FB? TE? yea, maybe there
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Bradford has a dope O-Line, but saying he sucks because he only has to make a few reads on 1 play is ridiculous.
Who are you to say he only makes 2 reads a play??? I didn't know we had an OU coach in the house!
How can you claim it's impossible to tell how many reads he makes and then admit that he stares down his targets? Anyway, let's get past that. You can tell by watching him, he stares down his first read and then makes a second read if he has to. It's not hard to see.

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Originally Posted by lordquas View Post
Theres a lot more that goes into it than what you see on TV FYI.
He stares down receivers, yeah, your right. But come on, thats his only negative.
His only negative? NFL scouts are paid to be critical. Scouting players, all the posters here push themselves to be critical. His system is a negative. His mechanics aren't perfect. He doesn't have a cannon. I can go all day. There are always flaws, friend.

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#2 behind Tebow,
I think everyone here just facepalmed.


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Originally Posted by lordquas View Post
because he has great accuracy, great size for a QB, he's extremely efficient, HE KNOWS HIS OFFENSE, doesn't make silly mistakes, and throws a hella tight spiral.
Accuracy is great, and a top trait to look for in a QB. His size is nice. But the rest is all part of him fitting a system that you won't find in the NFL. Can he play in an NFL system? That's the question. The spiral is also nice...



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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Most top QB prospects don't face much pressure in college. In fact, in recent memory, the only QB prospect I can think of that had faced a ton of pressure often is Jay Cutler. Obviously the more a QB can prove himself under pressure in college, the less that's a question heading to the pros, that said, considering it wasn't a question mark for one top QB prospect in recent memory, maybe it's a good thing that he hasn't faced a ton of pressure.
First, let me thank you for being an intelligent, analytical poster. The board is a better place for you. As far as his never facing pressure, I'm not blaming him for that. For all I know, he will handle it very well on the next level. It's just concerning especially considering the time he takes to make reads.



Let me make this point very clear too: I'm not saying Sam Bradford will fail. I'm only saying I wouldn't take him until the mid 20s right now. Can he improve? Absolutely. I hope he does.
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Old 05-27-2009, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else see Jeff Garcia in Sam Bradford?
That's Rich Gannon....
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