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Old 06-14-2009, 07:04 PM    (permalink
cvv84
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Originally Posted by GB12 View Post
That's poor drafting. They are two separate things. A trade isn't bad because the player picked with the draft choice was a bust. That was a good trade with bad drafting, not a bad trade.
You have to evaluate all the players that you get/trade away in a deal. Draft picks included.
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Old 06-14-2009, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Worst: Any decision Seifert Made, it seems like he tried to trade away anyone good we had for ancient do nothings.

Best: Probably the trade for Chris Harris, it cost us a fifth rounder (which we recouped later) and gave us a decent safety who went on to lead the NFL in forced fumbles that same year and changed the tone of the defense in the secondary which was really lacking in swagger and feeling without minter.
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Old 06-14-2009, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
You have to evaluate all the players that you get/trade away in a deal. Draft picks included.
Not if those picks haven't happened yet. That makes no sense.
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Manic Depressant View Post
Not if those picks haven't happened yet. That makes no sense.
You can say the same about the people being traded for, they haven't sucked for their new teams yet when they are acquired, just like a draft pick hasn't happened yet.

The argument goes both ways, but more favourably in GB12's direction.
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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You have to evaluate all the players that you get/trade away in a deal. Draft picks included.
No, that's ridiculous. If it was trading the rights to a player drafted like what happens in the NBA sometimes that would make some sense, but 99% of NFL trades don't work like that. It doesn't make any sense at all to include the players drafted to grade a trade. There is no way of knowing that the team that traded the pick would have taken the same player.

Go back to the trade you brought up. The Hasselbeck trade was very good for the Packers. The fact that Jamal Reynolds busted and Hutchinson is a pro bowler has nothing to do with it. You can't just assume that we would have taken Hutchinson had that trade not happend. In fact the chances of that happening would have been basically zero since we had Rivera and Wahle at the time. The trade wasn't Hasselbeck and Hutchinson for Jamal Reynolds and Torrence Marshall. It was Hasselbeck and 17, for 10 and a third, and that's the way it should be graded.
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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How so? What the heck has Cutler done for the Bears thus far?
Become the best QB in franchise history?
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Become the best QB in franchise history?
This is true, he hasnt done anything but bring us a name. Hopefully he will pan out, and if he does its the best trade we have made.
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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How so? What the heck has Cutler done for the Bears thus far?
Yep...I'm sure that falcons fans in the 90's thought that trading 2 firsts for Jeff George was the smartest thing they ever did. Oops.

Honestly, the trade needs 3 years before both sides can be fairly evaluated. Cutler needs time with his new team before he is too harshly judged and Denver's picks need time to developed before it is considered a failure for them.

Worst Bronco trade: Trading Willie Brown. Yes he was a Bronco at one point. I wasn't alive obviously, but I still know that trade a HOF player is always bad.

Best: Elway obviously

Even: Portis-Bailey
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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I'm surprised nobody's brought up the whole Eli-Rivers trade...soooo I'm just gonna stay away from that one.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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I'm surprised nobody's brought up the whole Eli-Rivers trade...soooo I'm just gonna stay away from that one.
wasnt bad for either one
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Yep...I'm sure that falcons fans in the 90's thought that trading 2 firsts for Jeff George was the smartest thing they ever did. Oops.

Honestly, the trade needs 3 years before both sides can be fairly evaluated. Cutler needs time with his new team before he is too harshly judged and Denver's picks need time to developed before it is considered a failure for them.

Worst Bronco trade: Trading Willie Brown. Yes he was a Bronco at one point. I wasn't alive obviously, but I still know that trade a HOF player is always bad.

Best: Elway obviously

Even: Portis-Bailey
Portis + Bailey and a second (Tatum Bell) was about even.

People usually fail to see that Bailey wanted out of Washington regardless that season. He was going to hold out or eventually be cut so the fact that we got some compensation for him was great. We later signed Shawn Springs in the offseason and he played top CB for a good while.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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yea and the redskins fail even more for not turning into a dynasty with those picks
Since a dynasty is made with in one draft. Those picks landed us Chris Samuels and LaVar Arrington. Ill redo that draft the same anyday. One of the best LTs in the game still today and Arrington was a beast until he became a headcase. Who could have seen his career ending the way it did?

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Best: Probably the Cutler trade
Could I have the lotto numbers as for tonight as well?


Our best as of recently was either the Portis from Denver for Bailey and a 2nd or Moss from the Jets for Coles. Back in the day was Sonny from the Eagles but im not sure what we gave up on that one.
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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no matter how Cutler turns out, the move to trade for a 25 year old pro bowl QB is always good :/
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Old 06-15-2009, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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wasnt bad for either one
i know, but that one sparks lots of heated debate :D
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 06-15-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Become the best QB in franchise history?
That would still have to be Sid Luckman. If Cutler becomes a hall of famer, then maybe he is the best QB in Bears history.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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no matter how Cutler turns out, the move to trade for a 25 year old pro bowl QB is always good :/
SO if he turns out to be a major bust and never win a game from Chicago its still a good trade because he is 25 and went to one pro bowl? Glad to know you have such low standards!
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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SO if he turns out to be a major bust and never win a game from Chicago its still a good trade because he is 25 and went to one pro bowl? Glad to know you have such low standards!
no, but as of this moment it is the best trade...
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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Getting this guy:


for this guy:


Thank you Buffalo. And thank you Chicago for snatching up Curtis Enis before we could pick him.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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no, but as of this moment it is the best trade...
I'm not a Bears fan but using the "ended up drafting" hindsight, I've got to say that their best trade was...

1964 NFL Draft 2nd Round + 4th Round Picks in exchange for the Pittsburgh Steelers 1965 1st Round Selection

In hindsight that trade turned out to be...

Jim Kelly - WR - Notre Dame and Ben McGee - DT - Jackson State
for
Dick Butkus - LB - Illinois

The Bears picked Hall of Famers Dick Butkus and Gale Sayers back-to-back thanks to this trade.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Portis + Bailey and a second (Tatum Bell) was about even.

People usually fail to see that Bailey wanted out of Washington regardless that season. He was going to hold out or eventually be cut so the fact that we got some compensation for him was great. We later signed Shawn Springs in the offseason and he played top CB for a good while.
Yeah it was an extremely even trade...one I was a little upset with at the time. I loved portis. To be fair, I was only like 14 haha

If the Broncos had used that pick on Bob Sanders instead, this would be a different conversation.
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Old 07-11-2010, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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Best Bronco trade: Elway, duh.

Worst Bronco trade: Trading their 1980 #1, #2, and QB Craig Penrose to the Jets for QB Matt Robinson. Awful. QB Craig Morton wasn't the problem. He needed a better O-line and running game. If they would have taken OT Kent Hill out of Georgia Tech in 1979 instead of Kelvin Clark, and if they would have used those picks that they gave up for Robinson on RB Joe Cribbs and OT/OG Irv Pankey, they would have done a lot more to improve the team than one stiff QB could have done.
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Old 07-11-2010, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
Getting this guy:


for this guy:


Thank you Buffalo. And thank you Chicago for snatching up Curtis Enis before we could pick him.
I love this picture so much.
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:28 AM    (permalink
descendency
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hero View Post
Become the best QB in franchise history?
Sid Luckman > Jay Cutler. And that's not even close.
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:09 AM    (permalink
Brothgar
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Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Best - Roy Williams/7th Rounder to the Cowboys for a 1st/3rd/6th

Worst - Trading Bobby Lane
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:18 AM    (permalink
Razor
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Up there for the Patriots has to be Randy Moss for a 4th round pick and a 1st round pick for Deion Branch. Oh and Bill Belichick for a 1st round pick as well.

Not really sure about worst trades although trading up for Chad Jackson when Greg Jennings was still on the board kinda hurts
I agree with this, but the Wes Welker and Richard Seymour trades are right up there. A second rounder for Welker and a first rounder for a 30-year old injury prone DE (who, however, is an All-Pro and potential HoF candidate imo). I can't really think of any trade that's not draft related where I was like "ZOMG, WTF?!? Fire BB, now we'll never win again!" but when we passed on Sergio Kindle on multiple occasion in the first round I was almost at that point. That was, of course, before anybody knew about his knee..
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