1st RD Pokedraft: j05son vs scottyboy

[TitanHope]

j05son - Team I Hope You Have an Hour, 'Cause I'm Gonna STALLLLL!!!

Originally Posted by j05son

Earthquake..............................Encore
Fire Blast.........................Leech Seed
Ice Beam.........................Sleep Powder
Thunderbolt.........................Stun Spore

Heal Bell.........................Drill Peck
Softboiled.........................Rest
Toxic.........................Spikes
Thunderbolt.........................Whirlwind

Rapid Spin.........................Ice Beam
Rest.........................Rapid Spin
Sludge Bomb.........................Spikes
Surf...................................Surf

Nidoking as my lead, try to take out or damage whatever I can until a faster mismatch forces me to switch. From there, I switch to whoever gives me the best typing advantage. I'm going to set up spikes quickly with Cloyster or Skarmory to gain entry damage on every pokemon switch my opponent does. Blissey with Toxic will badly poison HP away. Jumpluff will inflict paralysis, sleep and will steal HP away and heal my poke with Leech Seed. Plus Burn, Freezing, Poison and paralysis can all occur as a secondary attack [through fire blast, ice beam, sludge bomb, thunderbolt, etc].

I will have Blissey's Heal Bell to keep my team status free and with two rapid spinners I will easily rid any spikes or leech seed against me. With my team free of damage by spikes and status, I will freely be able to switch around having typing advantage where my opponents will be losing HP on every switch and be forced to either lose HP to regain type advantage or to take a bad match up. Plus with great defensive stats and 3 of my pokemon having the ability to fully heal themselves means I can stall and let spikes and status effects with an occasional attack or two defeat my opponent.

VS



ScottyBoy - Team Coolio Cat

Originally Posted by scottyboy

my strategy? oh well since you're all dying to know:

Pretty much use my all around balance to screw with you. Throw out a sweet water? BOOM Ampharos (Thunderbolt/Fire Punch/Rest/Sleep Talk)! I've got water/ice with Suicune (Surf/Ice Beam/Rest/Toxic). A solid all around guy in Heracross (Megahorn/Earthquake/Rest/Sleep Talk) who's rest and sleeptalk combo will rape you. Ampharos is my money electric guy who also throws sweet firepunches. Oh yea, and a nother rest/sleeptalk win combo. Meganium (Swords Dance/Body Slam/Giga Drain/Razor Leaf) is a strong grass pokemon who's great on the offensive with giga drain and razor leaf. Magmar (Fire Blast/Cross Chop/Thunder Punch/Hidden Power Water) will ruin you, that's all there is to that and Golem (Rock Slide/Earthquake/Explosion/Curse) is a strong ground pokemon who, if in dire need, explosion will ruin everyone.

Poll will be up for 24 hours, and feel free to post your thoughts. Thanks to everyone who participates!

[Canadian_kid16]

No Poll? Zomg

[TitanHope]

Originally Posted by Canadian_kid16

No Poll? Zomg

I messed the parenthesis up in it too... :(

JYNX!!! (Pun intended)

[Canadian_kid16]

these people gotta tell us who their lead pokemon is...who's scotty's?

[TitanHope]

Scotty never clarified who his starter was in his writeup, so his first pick is his default lead.

If I missed his post stating which one he wanted, I'll edit. But Suicune has an advantage over Nidoking, so I think Scotty is in good shape.

[scottyboy]

that was my bad TH, yea Suicune's my leader. i'm an idiot. this post is to clear that up and get a subscription to this thread haha

[TitanHope]

This is a really hard choice for me. Both teams are very good. I like j05son's Stalling Team more, but I don't like Nidoking as the starter.

Leads are J-Son's Nidoking vs Scotty's Suicune. Suicune has the advantage, and will kill Nidoking unless J-Son switches. I'd say Nidoking switches out, and I'd go with Cloyster if I were him. If I were Scotty, I'd see the switch coming and use Toxic. Cloyster becomes badly poisoned.

Suicune is faster than Cloyster, but has no effective moves against it. I think a switch to Ampharos would occur. Cloyster uses Spikes, and is hurt by Poison. Cloyster switches to Blissey, and Ampharos uses T-Bolt which is easily absorbed by Bliss. Ampharos switches to a Physical Sweeper, probably Heracross cause he can Sleep Talk. Heracross is hurt by Spikes, and Blissey uses Toxic.

It's gonna be a switchathon. J-Son's Blissey gives him a great advantage, and Toxic/Spikes will take some toll. Scotty has the initial Lead advantage, and has Sleep Talkers to combat the annoyers.

Sleep Talking Ampharos could do major damage to Cloyster and Tentacruel with STAB T-Bolt as well as Skarmory and Jumpluff with Fire Punch. If j05son doesn't play perfectly, Scotty can take him down.

I think Scotty's Sleep Talkers in conjunction with his Pokemon knowing moves to combat a wide variety of types gives him the slight edge in a switchathon. And I mean a slight edge.

[sbh15]

Along with what TH said, I just don't think jo5son's team can do enough damage against Scotty, who has 5/6 of his team as sweepers, who I believe will take out the opponent before the stalling can defeat him. Plus his sleep talkers with rest make status effects harder to use.

[Gay Ork Wang]

playing in Shoddy Battle with those two teams, i dont see how scotty stands a chance

[j05son]

Originally Posted by TitanHope

This is a really hard choice for me. Both teams are very good. I like j05son's Stalling Team more, but I don't like Nidoking as the starter.

Leads are J-Son's Nidoking vs Scotty's Suicune. Suicune has the advantage, and will kill Nidoking unless J-Son switches. I'd say Nidoking switches out, and I'd go with Cloyster if I were him. If I were Scotty, I'd see the switch coming and use Toxic. Cloyster becomes badly poisoned.

Suicune is faster than Cloyster, but has no effective moves against it. I think a switch to Ampharos would occur. Cloyster uses Spikes, and is hurt by Poison. Cloyster switches to Blissey, and Ampharos uses T-Bolt which is easily absorbed by Bliss. Ampharos switches to a Physical Sweeper, probably Heracross cause he can Sleep Talk. Heracross is hurt by Spikes, and Blissey uses Toxic.

It's gonna be a switchathon. J-Son's Blissey gives him a great advantage, and Toxic/Spikes will take some toll. Scotty has the initial Lead advantage, and has Sleep Talkers to combat the annoyers.

Sleep Talking Ampharos could do major damage to Cloyster and Tentacruel with STAB T-Bolt as well as Skarmory and Jumpluff with Fire Punch. If j05son doesn't play perfectly, Scotty can take him down.

I think Scotty's Sleep Talkers in conjunction with his Pokemon knowing moves to combat a wide variety of types gives him the slight edge in a switchathon. And I mean a slight edge.

Well, Renji and I have been playing on Shoddy Battle. Shoddy was made for Gen IV but we just picked all the moves we had on these gen II teams, we used no EV's, no items and used "serious" natures [as serious doesn't give + or - in any stat making it the same as gen II]. You can't turn off abilities but it's not like that changed the game.

For the leads, Suicune vs Nidoking, the king does go first and has a tblot but it won't ohko so I did switch but I don't know why you have me going to cloyster. I went Blissey who walls everything Suicune does, and has tblot.

I just play the switcharoo game [I played Renji 3 times and didn't set up spikes until mid game]. I love when he used rest as it gave me free turns to do anything, jumpluff leech seed, heal bell, rest myself or softboil or just pound him with moves while he's still asleep [the full health only comes on turn 1].

and for me "not doing any damage"

Skarmory OHKO's Heracross with absolute ease. [STAB drill peck that heracross 4x weak too] plus Skarm is a PHYSICAL WALL so Megahorn does nothing and Skarm is flying type so earthquake away please...

Tentacruel or Cloyster OHKO either Golem [STAB Surfs man...], Meganium [STAB sluge bomb form ten, STAB ice beam from cloy], and Magmar [STAB Surfs man...].

Nidoking OHKO Ampharos with STAB quake.

The only thing I couldn't OHKO is Suicune and he's the only thing that gave me any sort of fight. Then again I have Blissey who totally walls it with Tbolt and Nidoking who goes first with Tbolt.

Renji played with Scotty's set and i with mine and I beat him 3-0. The third time Renji knew exactly what I was doing, like:

START: king vs suicune
turn 1: switch to blissey. swith to golem.
turn 2: switch to tentacruel. golem 1hko's tentacruel.

So after beating him badly the first 2, he totally gets the upper hand in the third, basically 6v5 and I still win with 3 poke still alive.

Against Renji's team, I didn't fare that well. I beat his team once for sure, maybe twice, and lost 3 or 4...His damn perish song...He would basically sac that one poke for 2 of mine. Unless I was lucky enough to get Jumpluff encoring it on mean look or even perish song.

[TitanHope]

Originally Posted by j05son

Well, Renji and I have been playing on Shoddy Battle. Shoddy was made for Gen IV but we just picked all the moves we had on these gen II teams, we used no EV's, no items and used "serious" natures [as serious doesn't give + or - in any stat making it the same as gen II]. You can't turn off abilities but it's not like that changed the game.

It did change the game.

Sleep Talking Ampharos with T-Bolt and Fire Punch is a huge part of Scotty's team. On Shoddy, Fire Punch is a Physical Attack where in G/S/C it's a Special Attack. You basically took one of it's important moves and made it obsolete. Magmar has T-Punch as well, but at least his 95 Attack didn't allow him to be messed over like Ampharos.

Abilities do change the game. With abilities, Wobuffet becomes an Uber. Suicune's Pressure depletes PP. Ampharos's Static has a 30% chance of Paralyzing an opponent. Nidoking's Poison Point can Poison. Skarmory's Sturdy blocks Critical Hits. Chancey with Serene Grace gives it's T-Bolt a better chance of causing Paralysis.

Ya'll played a different game than we drafted and set up moves for. It's not fair, especially to Scotty whose team didn't transfer as well and wasn't even there to battle you with the team he drafted for.

[j05son]

Originally Posted by TitanHope

It did change the game.

Sleep Talking Ampharos with T-Bolt and Fire Punch is a huge part of Scotty's team. On Shoddy, Fire Punch is a Physical Attack where in G/S/C it's a Special Attack. You basically took one of it's important moves and made it obsolete. Magmar has T-Punch as well, but at least his 95 Attack didn't allow him to be messed over like Ampharos.

Abilities do change the game. With abilities, Wobuffet becomes an Uber. Suicune's Pressure depletes PP. Ampharos's Static has a 30% chance of Paralyzing an opponent. Nidoking's Poison Point can Poison. Skarmory's Sturdy blocks Critical Hits. Chancey with Serene Grace gives it's T-Bolt a better chance of causing Paralysis.

Ya'll played a different game than we drafted and set up moves for. It's not fair, especially to Scotty whose team didn't transfer as well and wasn't even there to battle you with the team he drafted for.

XFD, wtf are you talking about. Firepunch isn't special anywhere. The only thing that has changed from the move was going from gen I to gen II where the burn rate increased. It hasn't changed in any way other than that. Plus I've stated I play the switch aroo game. Fire Punch does nothing against Blissey or Nidoking [the obvious switches anyway].

With abilities, I didn't fight wobbuffet and for every ability I had, Renji had abilities with Scotty's set. Blissey could cure poison on a switch [which it could do anyway with heal bell]. Plus are you trying to argue that i had sturdy with Skam and he had it with Golem. Poison pin for king = static with ampharos.

Tbolt doesn't 1HKO Suicune [as I don't get STAB on it]. Want to guess how it hurt that every Tbolt cost 2 PP. Abilities in this case did VERY LITTLE to the overall game. If I battled BT, it would be different with Wobbuffet or if I had abilities and he didn't. Abilities hardly changed the game we played.

[Gay Ork Wang]

Abilities did nothing at all, Sturdy only blocks OHKOs. Not one Poison Pint or Static hit. there was no ability that played into the game.

[j05son]

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

Abilities did nothing at all, Sturdy only blocks OHKOs. Not one Poison Pint or Static hit. there was no ability that played into the game.

Also, OKHO moves aren't allowed in Shoddy Battle.

[TitanHope]

Originally Posted by j05son

XFD, wtf are you talking about. Firepunch isn't special anywhere. The only thing that has changed from the move was going from gen I to gen II where the burn rate increased. It hasn't changed in any way other than that. Plus I've stated I play the switch aroo game. Fire Punch does nothing against Blissey or Nidoking [the obvious switches anyway].

Yes, the elemental punches were once Special. My Alakazam has Fire Punch. Why would Smogon put a non-STAB Physical Attack on Alakazam in their moveset suggestions? The same thing goes for Ampharos. Physical moves are wasted on them.

Did you not notice how when you get from 2nd Gen to 4th Gen and that none of these Pokemon carry Elemental Punches anymore?

From Alakazam's D/P page under "Other Options":

Originally Posted by Smogon

Ignore any physical attacks in Alakazam's movepool. Even though he gets some nifty moves like the elemental punches, his Attack is so low that it'd be a waste of your time to try using it, even with significant EV investment.

Why would they suddenly advise you to not put a move on a Pokemon when it's been using it for every Gen before it?


I have a question: You and Renji voted the same on every poll. Did you guys test every battle?

[j05son]

Originally Posted by TitanHope

Yes, the elemental punches were once Special. My Alakazam has Fire Punch. Why would Smogon put a non-STAB Physical Attack on Alakazam in their moveset suggestions? The same thing goes for Ampharos. Physical moves are wasted on them.

Did you not notice how when you get from 2nd Gen to 4th Gen and that none of these Pokemon carry Elemental Punches anymore?

From Alakazam's D/P page under "Other Options":



Why would they suddenly advise you to not put a move on a Pokemon when it's been using it for every Gen before it?


I have a question: You and Renji voted the same on every poll. Did you guys test every battle?

The elemental punches have never been SpcAtk based. They were used early in the game as there was NO other way to get type move coverage. There was no EV, there were no powerups, and Alakazam couldn't learn any other moves that would benefit type coverage than the physical fire punch.

Smogon suggesting in gen IV, AFTER EV's and powerups like Alakazam running Specs that the elemental punches shouldn't be used as there is NOW better moves [Hidden Power] that take it's role.

The ONLY thing that has changed, EVER about the elemental punches is that they all gained .2% of their secondary effect hitting.

Also, LOL as how hypocritical all that was...You stating how Renji and I testing the teams out was unfair when you are trying to use all of your resources [including GEN IV analysis] to make a claim that isn't even right. I mean you can't have it both ways...

Lastly, Renji and I didn't collaborate on who we voted for, that was just coincidence, but I voted for the teams that did the best.

[TitanHope]

Originally Posted by j05son

The elemental punches have never been SpcAtk based. They were used early in the game as there was NO other way to get type move coverage. There was no EV, there were no powerups, and Alakazam couldn't learn any other moves that would benefit type coverage than the physical fire punch.

Smogon suggesting in gen IV, AFTER EV's and powerups like Alakazam running Specs that the elemental punches shouldn't be used as there is NOW better moves [Hidden Power] that take it's role.

The ONLY thing that has changed, EVER about the elemental punches is that they all gained .2% of their secondary effect hitting.

I swear to you dude, but, I realize I could very well be mistaken. But, I'm finding out. Nevertheless, Shoddy is a 4th Gen simulator and we're doing 2nd Gen. Don't see how that's hard to grasp.

Originally Posted by j05son

Also, LOL as how hypocritical all that was...You stating how Renji and I testing the teams out was unfair when you are trying to use all of your resources [including GEN IV analysis] to make a claim that isn't even right. I mean you can't have it both ways...

No, I am not being hypocritical. I am making references to Smogon, which was a source given to help everyone. I said that Shoddy battle wouldn't work this round - you and Renji did it anyway and are basing arguments off of it. I stand by saying what ya'll did was unfair to scottyboy. It's his team and his strategy, and your findings aren't based on a Head-to-Head battle between both teams. That's Pokemon and Trainers included. This thread and poll is where this match was decided. You were not here.

You think you have the better team. That's fine. I thought I had a better team than Scott Bertuzzi last round, and he still won. I agreed on the polling system, and I lost. I congratulated him, and moved on. Perhaps if you had spent your time posting in this thread and not making your first post just minutes before the poll closed, the results would be different. But you didn't. That's no one's fault but your own. You had time to contradict arguments posted, and apparently were too busy playing your simulator. Enjoy doing things your way by making your own Fantasy Tourney, and not involving the community or grandfathering in the participants on the past Pokemon Drafts (especially when we all decided to let you in our thing when you originally weren't). I'm sure you'll do very well in it, since that's what's most important to you.

Meanwhile, congrats to Scotty for winning the poll!

[Gay Ork Wang]

even without shoddy, looking at the explanation Jason gave, its still his game