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Old 07-16-2009, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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Jason Whitlock is a joke, I don't know why he is even a sports writer. He never gets anything right. His social commentary is often good, I wish he'd just do that and give up this nonsense sports column.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Marshall Faulk>>>>Randy Moss as far as influence goes with modern day players.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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definitely not the most influential ever.

but he is without question, the most influential WR when it comes to dictating coverage the league has seen in the modern era.

More than Jerry Rice.

No WR Ive ever seen has impacted and changed a defense's strategy and coverage schemes the way Randy Moss does. No WR opens up the field for his teammates the way Moss does.

Randy Moss is a DC's worst nightmare. He's in my eyes, the 2nd best WR ever. And I know I catch flack for saying that, but when you look at how he dictates coverage, its just sick how he can dictate that kind of respect, and still dominate the game.

And he's never had a qb until Tom Brady. He gets a qb, and breaks the TD record. Granted, its still not as amazing as when Rice had it, but still.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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ummm Culpepper was damn good in the late 90s
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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He's in my eyes, the 2nd best WR ever.
Don Hutson is the second best WR of all-time.
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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ummm Culpepper was damn good in the late 90s
No he wasn't. He always sucked. He's a good example of how fantasy football has polluted our minds of what makes a good player. Just because you put up good stats for 3 seasons or so doesn't mean you were ever a good quarterback.
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Don Hutson is the second best WR of all-time.
Huston is the reason why I specified that no WR "in the modern era" has impacted defenses like Moss did.

You're right, Huston was amazing, and is the reason why zone defense exists today.

Its just hard for me to compare him to Moss because the game was so different.

For argument sake though, I will cede Randy Moss as the #2 guy and give it to Huston. Hes just proven more at this point.

I think Moss will eventually be #2 though, he should surpass Huston by the end of his career.
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Ease up there, BBD. Moss played with a QB.

Cunningham, at the end of his career, still had the arm that suited Moss' speed. Culpepper. Collins for one year in Oakland, the mess that that was/is.

Not a great QB, like you say, but he did play with a QB and for more than one year.
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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ummm Culpepper was damn good in the late 90s
Culpepper didn't throw a single pass in the 90s. The time frame you're looking for is 2000-2004.

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No he wasn't. He always sucked. He's a good example of how fantasy football has polluted our minds of what makes a good player. Just because you put up good stats for 3 seasons or so doesn't mean you were ever a good quarterback.
Say what you want about Culpepper as an overall QB, but he was damn good at getting the ball to Moss. Randy Moss did not suffer because Culpepper was the QB. They were a great fit for each other and your statement about his QB play is quite ridiculous. Besides his Oakland years he has been set up very nicely with QBs his whole career. It's not Montana/Young/Gannon like Jerry Rice had, but it's far from bad.
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Old 07-16-2009, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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ah yea, got that mixed up after i watched that "Top Ten WR Corps: 98 Vikings" video
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Old 07-16-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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I really like the article. Most influential is over the top, but almost every QB Randy Moss has had has been successful and many have gone on to not be so good afterwards. Pairing him with an actual Pro Bowl QB in Tom Brady had Moss set records. Yes, he is that good.
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Old 07-16-2009, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Most influential player ever? Definatly Not... One of the most influential modern era players? I'd say yes.

The two most prolific offenses in the history of the NFL have one thing in common, thats Randy Moss. I personally don't think thats just a coincidence.
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Old 07-16-2009, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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No he wasn't. He always sucked. He's a good example of how fantasy football has polluted our minds of what makes a good player. Just because you put up good stats for 3 seasons or so doesn't mean you were ever a good quarterback.
Then what was Culpepper at the time? Because he certainly wasn't terrible.
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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No he wasn't. He always sucked. He's a good example of how fantasy football has polluted our minds of what makes a good player. Just because you put up good stats for 3 seasons or so doesn't mean you were ever a good quarterback.
I'm sorry. I'll buy that Culpepper has always been turnover prone, that he fumbles way more than any quarterback should, and that he's been, at best, completely streaky during his career. But he certainly has not "always sucked". His 2004 season profiled, at the time, as one of the 10 best seasons a quarterback has ever had in terms of regular season production.
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Then what was Culpepper at the time? Because he certainly wasn't terrible.


I think he was pretty good at one time. ^^^

Though Culpepper has never been very good at reading defenses. His first read is always deep and he struggles to make the efficient throws to move the chains. That's why he was so good with Moss because Moss allowed the bomb to come back to the NFL. Culpepper then sucked in Miami and Oakland with no real deep threat but when he got to Detroit his play improved when he got Calvin. Now obviously talented WR's help QB's but not all are some dependent on having that big play WR. Cassell's main guy was Welker even though he had Moss. Romo liked to throw to Witten even though he had TO and Rivers prefers Gates to Vincent Jackson. Culpepper never really relied on a solid, possession WR and has always been all about the deep ball which has limited his success as an NFL QB.
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Old 07-17-2009, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Moss will be a hall of famer. I don't care what anyone else says. He was part of an offense that broke records that were never meant to be broken. I think the Vikings are ******** for ever trading him. Because what they got in return was Troy Williamson and Napolean Harris. It was just a fail. I don't think he is the most influential, but for his time, he is definately the most inspirational. He is a hell of an athlete. And any kid that wants to succeed at WR after high school should look up to Randy.
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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I have to question if Whitlock watched football in the 80s. Lawrence Taylor is IMO easily the most influential player of the modern era. His impact is still felt today in the contracts of elite pass rushers and elite pass protectors. He pretty much gave life to the rushbacker position and forced teams to invest heavily into protecting their QB's blind side. When Randy Moss makes safety one of the highest paid positions in the NFL, we can start talking about whether or not he's on the same level as LT. As for "most influential football player ever", I think that's next to impossible to define because of all the early evolution of the game and player/coach/owners and such in the early days.
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Old 07-17-2009, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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As someone who has watched every Vikings game for as long as I can remember and now can't stand Culpepper, I can admit that he was a damn good quarterback for a stretch of a couple seasons. And Moss wasn't the only reason. In 2004 which was Daunte's best season ever by far Moss was hindered by injuries all year and didn't even reach 1,000 yards.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Moss will be a hall of famer. I don't care what anyone else says.
Where the hell did that come from? No ever said that Moss wont be in the HOF.
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Old 07-18-2009, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Most influential? No... Possibly the best receiver ever? Maybe.
I just threw up a little in my mouth. He's awesome, but he's not Jerry Rice. At least not yet.
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Old 07-18-2009, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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He's not Rice in longetivity, as far as dominance he may be better. Or at least it is debatable.
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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I have no problem saying Moss was a more talented and more dominant receiver than Rice ever was. Rice was playing in a groundbreaking offensive scheme with one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history with tons of offensive talent around him and he constantly got the opportunity to shine in the postseason. Moss was playing on a relatively unremarkable offense (his best teammate was a 33+ year old Chris Carter) with inconsistent quarterback play and very few opportunities to play in the post season.

Is he the best receiver? No, Rice still holds that title. But they were equally dynamic in their respective ways, which is all the more impressive for Moss considering his situation.
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Old 07-18-2009, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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I'll repeat what was said earlier, Moss'd him.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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I never saw rice play, so my question is just how good was he? Could he take over the game like Moss, Smith, Fitz and those guys, or was he more of a marvin harrison every down doing the right thing but not exactly the most explosive or stand out?
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
I never saw rice play, so my question is just how good was he? Could he take over the game like Moss, Smith, Fitz and those guys, or was he more of a marvin harrison every down doing the right thing but not exactly the most explosive or stand out?
I never got to see Rice play live in his prime, but being a Bay Area guy I have had the pleasure of re-watching a few 49ers seasons (I got a hold of the '86 and '90 game tapes a few years back). I suppose Fitzgerald would make a good comparison, although it's clear that in 1986, Rice's second year, people really didn't know how to cope with the guy. He made his slant cuts so quick and was so strong and sure-handed that he was getting huge seperation early in his routes and consistently turned quick passes into big gains. Rice wasn't quite as strong or large as Fitzgerald, but I think the gap between him and his competition was even greater. He was marvelous.

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By the way, Marvin Harrison was a very explosive receiver in his prime.
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