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View Poll Results: Better 2nd Year
Steve Slaton 49 43.36%
Chris Johnson 64 56.64%
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:38 PM    (permalink
RufusMcDaniel
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
You need to look carefully at Tennessee's schedule my friend. Their SOS was the weakest in the NFL last year and they won't be facing that cakewalk schedule this coming season. The schedule in the NFL allows for 6 to 8 new teams to reach the playoffs every year but those teams without franchise QB's almost never repeat their playoff run and are prime candidates to fall by the wayside. That is the pattern of the NFL and I fully expect Tennessee to follow this pattern into oblivion for the coming year.
Can you prove that?

Whose to say the NFC West and AFC East don't blow this year.

Also Tennessee has made the playoffs two straight years, and the year before was just on the outside looking in, so don't count on them falling by the wayside. Now Jacksonville....they did that.

And Chris Johnson will have a better year, why? Cause I'm bias and that's all you need to know.
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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Can you prove that?

Whose to say the NFC West and AFC East don't blow this year.

Also Tennessee has made the playoffs two straight years, and the year before was just on the outside looking in, so don't count on them falling by the wayside. Now Jacksonville....they did that.
I've had this argument with Iamcanadian before.

When the season was over and done, the Titans SOS was the 7th easiest in the NFL. It was not the easiest in the NFL like IAC stated. He's mistaken on that, or was blatantly exaggurating the facts in order to try and prove his point.

What IAC chooses to leave out is that the Titans SOS before the season started was the 10th most difficult in the NFL, and they posted victories against Playoff teams such as the Steelers, Colts, Ravens, and Vikings. He neglects the fact that the Titans having the best record in the NFL possibly had an affect on why their SOS is so low. The Lions ended with the 3rd toughest SOS in the NFL, so according to IAC's logic that must mean they weren't as bad as much as they played a one of the toughest schedules.

He makes the point about teams without franchise QB's almost never repeat Playoff births, yet the Titans made the Playoffs in '07 with Young and '08 with Collins. It's funny how this schedule pattern of his will be the reason the Titans will "fall into oblivion," yet the Titans contradicted this pattern just last season by improving their record.
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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Titans also have something that most organization without a franchise QB don't have: Jeff Fisher. People can rag on Jeff Fisher for various things, but the guy knows how to coach football. His team is built around a strong D and a Strong running game, and I don't think having a franchise QB is his biggest concern.
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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What IAC chooses to leave out is that the Titans SOS before the season started was the 10th most difficult in the NFL, and they posted victories against Playoff teams such as the Steelers, Colts, Ravens, and Vikings. He neglects the fact that the Titans having the best record in the NFL possibly had an affect on why their SOS is so low.
and that is why SOS has absolutely no realistic bearing on an individual season in retrospect.

as you win games against teams, your SOS goes down. As you lose games, your SOS goes up.

Teams you win against get better records and thus, increase their 'ease' of schedule.
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Chris Johnson cuz im on his legs.
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Chris Johnson cuz im on his legs.
Sounds like you just on the third one. I kid, I kid.

Honestly, I hope Slaton has a better season, but then again you never know. In my opinion Slaton is more balanced, he can run over you or around you. I looked at some of the highlights, (so yeah, I can admit I may have missed some of Johnsons better runs.) but based on what I saw, Slaton is harder to bring down.

Johnson has speed, but honestly, it's that dang line. They suck, I say they suck because my fav. team plays them twice a yr. and thus they suck to me, cuz I gotta see them 2 times a yr. Any team would want that line.

Better yr. who knows. Better RB... Slaton. Yeah, I'm biased, doesn't necessarily make me wrong.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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Sorry, couldn't help but chuckle a bit there.

"Ok guys, the film clearly shows how we stop Chris Johnson - we just gotta run a crap load faster!"

In all seriousness though, is this even a legit approach to containing a RB? So much of what a RB does is in real time, adjusting to what he sees in front of him develop, not to mention D's are facing a total running attack, not just a single running back. There is no magic formation to stop a RB derived from film study.

Oh and I'm pretty sure Slaton has been caught on film too - I mean if the frame rate can capture Chris Johnson, it can nab Slaton ;)
So teams aren't going to prepare for and pay attention to Johnson more this year than they did for at least the first half of last year? There were 4 RBs taken before him last year, it's not like everyone expected him to become arguably the most successful rookie RB. This year, teams will have a year's worth of game tape to try to understand how the Titans use Johnson. Are you seriously telling me you don't think teams will use what Johnson did last year to prepare? Do you think the runningback position is just ignored entirely when gameplanning? "Well this guy's just too fast, we'll do our best and hope it works." That's really the conversation you think professionals have?

And yes, Slaton has tape on him too, but unlike Johnson he isn't the focal point of his offense. The Texans will continue to use the pass to set up the run, which means teams won't be gameplanning as much against Slaton as they will Johnson. I alluded to this in my initial post.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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Slaton will have more chances
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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So teams aren't going to prepare for and pay attention to Johnson more this year than they did for at least the first half of last year? There were 4 RBs taken before him last year, it's not like everyone expected him to become arguably the most successful rookie RB. This year, teams will have a year's worth of game tape to try to understand how the Titans use Johnson. Are you seriously telling me you don't think teams will use what Johnson did last year to prepare? Do you think the runningback position is just ignored entirely when gameplanning? "Well this guy's just too fast, we'll do our best and hope it works." That's really the conversation you think professionals have?

And yes, Slaton has tape on him too, but unlike Johnson he isn't the focal point of his offense. The Texans will continue to use the pass to set up the run, which means teams won't be gameplanning as much against Slaton as they will Johnson. I alluded to this in my initial post.
My point was, how prepared can you really get for a particular running back? My quote about speed was obviously a joke/exaggeration. I'm sure they study how Johnson is used, but that can only do so much. It's still going to come down to blocking, Johnson's vision, speed, and the ability of the D to tackle. There are almost always going to be opportunities to get a good gain on a running play whether the D likes it or not. Good D's keep them to a minimum, but like the Ravens playoff game, even good D's sometimes can't contain a well oiled running attack. What footage and preperation did the Ravens not have on Johnson that the Titans 2009 opponents will have? Besides, it's not like the Titans offense won't try and adjust how they use Johnson, so 2008 could basically be useless.

It's not like Johnson is a gimmick back or a weapon used in some exotic way. In 2008, he was basically given the same runs White was given. How do you prepare to stop off tackle runs and inside counters? If the OL dominates up front and CJ has the vision to see the hole and the speed to hit it hard, he's getting 5+ yards likely regardless of what a D is going to do.

When it comes to the Titans, White and CJ, all footage is going to do is show the opposing defenses how important it is to win the battle up front - good luck.

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Old 07-22-2009, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Matt Forte's better than both of them.

Unlike Chris Johnson he didn't have LenDale White to pound defenses down and let him catch his breath, unlike Steve Slaton he didn't have people double covering Andre Johnson. People stacked the box against the Bears all year long because they knew we couldn't pass, Forte didn't have anyone to spell him and yet he still managed to put up great numbers.

Forte excels in an area that neither Chris Johnson nor Steve Slaton are very good at; blocking. Matt Forte was the third best blocking running back last year (behind MJD - who wasn't on the field as much, so take that with a pinch of salt, and Clinton Portis), as a rookie I think that's very, very impressive.

I believe that Forte contributes more to his respective team because he can do everything well. He'll only improve more this year with Jay Cutler under centre too, no more stacking the box now that the Bears have a QB that can throw the deep ball.

I don't doubt that Chris Johnson will make highlight reels with 50+ yard runs and that Slaton will continue to put up some good numbers, but I believe Matt Forte's a better football player than both of them.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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seriously though, Matt Forte's blocking was incredible
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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Matt Forte's better than both of them.

Unlike Chris Johnson he didn't have LenDale White to pound defenses down and let him catch his breath, unlike Steve Slaton he didn't have people double covering Andre Johnson. People stacked the box against the Bears all year long because they knew we couldn't pass, Forte didn't have anyone to spell him and yet he still managed to put up great numbers.

Forte excels in an area that neither Chris Johnson nor Steve Slaton are very good at; blocking. Matt Forte was the third best blocking running back last year (behind MJD - who wasn't on the field as much, so take that with a pinch of salt, and Clinton Portis), as a rookie I think that's very, very impressive.

I believe that Forte contributes more to his respective team because he can do everything well. He'll only improve more this year with Jay Cutler under centre too, no more stacking the box now that the Bears have a QB that can throw the deep ball.

I don't doubt that Chris Johnson will make highlight reels with 50+ yard runs and that Slaton will continue to put up some good numbers, but I believe Matt Forte's a better football player than both of them.

I really can't argue with anything said here. Matt Forte is, what is often referred to as, a complete back
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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I still don't understand why Matt Forte keeps being brought up in a thread about Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton...

IMO Chris Johnson will have the better year, due to the fact that I believe he is just the better player than Slaton, and behind the Titans O-line he'll rack up a lot of yards, not to mention catches out of the backfield. In this day and age you almost always need a two back system in the NFL, and I think Slaton will be worn down if the Texans don't find a complement to him.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Unlike Chris Johnson he didn't have LenDale White to pound defenses down and let him catch his breath, unlike Steve Slaton he didn't have people double covering Andre Johnson. People stacked the box against the Bears all year long because they knew we couldn't pass, Forte didn't have anyone to spell him and yet he still managed to put up great numbers.
He put up the numbers he did in part *because* of those conditions - who else was going to carry and catch the ball? Yeah, CJ was allowed breaks, but is that really a good thing from the perspective of a single season? the more you get the ball, the more you will produce. In the long term, maybe CJ was affored a luxury, but we're not evaluating the long term at the moment. I'm certain if CJ was pounded into the ground last season, or Slaton too, his stats would have been significantly better on what was already a great rookie season.

Forte's most impressive feat was his durability. Not wearing down under that work load, as a rookie, was very impressive. Maybe under the same conditions CJ and Slaton wouldn't have stayed so healthy, but who knows. They're all quality backs, and they all had very different situations.
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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I love the jealous bear fans who cant help themselves, clearly the thread says... Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton... NOT MATT FORTE! LOL!
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Old 07-23-2009, 04:46 AM    (permalink
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I love the jealous bear fans who cant help themselves, clearly the thread says... Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton... NOT MATT FORTE! LOL!
The better question would be, why not?
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:29 AM    (permalink
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The better question would be, why not?
Because it took Forte 316 carries to do what Johnson did in 251.

I know the bottom line is what important, but how long it takes to get there is a big deal too imo.
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:43 AM    (permalink
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Because it took Forte 316 carries to do what Johnson did in 251.

I know the bottom line is what important, but how long it takes to get there is a big deal too imo.
thing is that the bears OL is worlds apart from the Titans OL. With no one actually being scared of the passing game at all and no one to take the carries from him, its kinda obvious why he didnt do that. beside the question right now is who has a better 2nd year and thinking about the acquisitions the bears made, he would definitely fit into the discussion.

Also consider the higher Yard per catch and more receiving tds, as well as the blocking.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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i voted for Slaton because i think his team is going to be better this year and i think the titans are going to regress so while i think they will have statistically similar years, i think slaton ends up doing it for a better team. (yes i just said that the texans will make the playoffs over the titans...)
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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thing is that the bears OL is worlds apart from the Titans OL. With no one actually being scared of the passing game at all and no one to take the carries from him, its kinda obvious why he didnt do that. beside the question right now is who has a better 2nd year and thinking about the acquisitions the bears made, he would definitely fit into the discussion.

Also consider the higher Yard per catch and more receiving tds, as well as the blocking.
What discussion would that be? Maybe if people were trying to figure out which 2nd year Rb would have the best year then yea, he'd fit into that discussion, but not this one. I don't know why it hurts Bears fans so much to not mention his name in every sentence about a RB, you guys have been doing this for over a year now.


And about your first point, the Titans don't have or didn't have anyone to be afraid of the passing game either...I get the whole "people will gameplan for CJ" but to be honest, people knew he was the Titans best play-maker by week 2 of the NFL season, nobody was that naive to have no clue who he was at that point.


I'm always more impressed when a RB can be the focal point of an offense, and the only legit play-maker, and can still put up pro bowl numbers, versus a back in Slaton who could find lanes due to attention to Andre Johnson, Daniels, Schab and Walters opening things up for him.


If you put CJ on Houston I think his stats are much better.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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What discussion would that be? Maybe if people were trying to figure out which 2nd year Rb would have the best year then yea, he'd fit into that discussion, but not this one. I don't know why it hurts Bears fans so much to not mention his name in every sentence about a RB, you guys have been doing this for over a year now.


And about your first point, the Titans don't have or didn't have anyone to be afraid of the passing game either...I get the whole "people will gameplan for CJ" but to be honest, people knew he was the Titans best play-maker by week 2 of the NFL season, nobody was that naive to have no clue who he was at that point.


I'm always more impressed when a RB can be the focal point of an offense, and the only legit play-maker, and can still put up pro bowl numbers, versus a back in Slaton who could find lanes due to attention to Andre Johnson, Daniels, Schab and Walters opening things up for him.


If you put CJ on Houston I think his stats are much better.
it doesnt hurt. but when asking about who have the 2 promising 2nd year Running backs are gonna have a better year, why not talk about the 3? I mean a thread like that always carries such an undertone talking about the best running back out of the bunch.

Im not really sure, but there were games for the bears where there were only 4 catches made by WRs. I mean the titans werent good passing the ball, but were they that bad? I mean Forte was the leading receiver.

besides, i didnt bring him up, but looking at how people think he is inferior by just stating carries is bull
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Forte is going to continue to pop up, might as well retitle better 2nd year runningback.
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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agreed.

I think forte is a very valid choice for a third back in this conversation.

It really determines what your concept of 'success' is though... I think they'll be equally as successful, but in very different metrics...
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I vote Tim Hightower
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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Its a thread about 2 people, stop being annoying and bringing up people the thread isnt about.
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