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Old 07-23-2009, 09:27 PM    (permalink
SugarSean
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Thanks for writing a detailed response but I fail to see where they VASTLY improved. At the very best the defense is equally as talented but I think Cowboys' fans will become disgruntled by Igor for his lack of drive after getting paid but we'll see. Turning the youth may work for the first half of the year but how will they respond to a full season, getting the majority of the reps? The offense has more problems too and that's actually the unit that worries me more, not the defense.

Fair enough. I can totally accept that line of thought. It probably would be better if I said they'll be no worse than last year with a chance to be vastly improved. There's much more upside to this defense.

I have to disagree with you on the offense, as well. I'll take a healthy Kosier, Felix, RW and more experienced Bennett and Choice over last year's unit. The only thing they lost is T.O. and he's a shell of his former self. Easily one of the top 10 most overrated players in the league. My biggest concern with the O is the o-line's age. If they can stay healthy, this year's offense will be dangerous.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
the whole NFC South besides the Saints
The saints on this board are being given more props than any other team in the south and unjustifiably so. They've been expected to fire for a while now since their NFCCG appearance and are yet to do so.

There's no reason to expect Carolina or Atlanta to fall off. The Saints are still third in the division and Carolina and Atlanta are still two of the top teams in the NFC.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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IMO

1. Indy Colts
2. Philly Eagles (I'm guilty too)
3. NO Saints
4. Miami Dolphins

I can't see how the Cowboys are over rated most people at least in the forums anyway I haven't seen anyone even giving them a wild card.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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The Giants did fine last year without Plax
They did? 3-4 in the last seven games, including the playoffs. Some of the notables include 14 points against Philly at home, 8 against Dallas on the road, and 11 at home against Philly in the playoffs. They averaged 20.8 ppg in that time frame. They averaged 29.2 ppg before that.

Quote:
and they drafted Ward's replacement in Andre Brown, plus they have another RB in Danny Ware that their expecting good things from.
The running game's not the issue. The passing game is. Andre Brown and Danny Ware don't play WR. The passing game went down the crapper after Burress' incident.

Quote:
Not only that but they added some significant pieces to their defense and Kenny Phillips will have a year of NFL experience under his belt.
Defense wasn't the problem either.

I'm not sold on the Giants. Yes, they can run the ball and play defense, but you do have to pass it occasionally. Show me who their #1 WR is. In that offense, you need one. They don't have it.
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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I would say the Miami Dolphins. I really don't see them as a playoff contender this year. Last year, they had a great season but a lot of their games were close and could have gone either way. They had ridiculously few turnovers last year and that will be tough to repeat. Also, they played the AFC and NFC West last year which were the two worst divisions in football. This year they play the AFC and NFC South, arguably the two best divisions. They were able to take advantage of a lot of teams last year with the Wildcat but I don't think it will be quite as successful even with Pat White. Usually teams that are bad then have a big rise tend to even back out somewhere in the middle. I see them winning 6-7 games.
The natural order of things will be back in the AFC East this year. Pats will be way up, and no other team breaking .500
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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New England.
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:03 AM    (permalink
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The natural order of things will be back in the AFC East this year. Pats will be way up, and no other team breaking .500

SuperMcgee...what the **** is the guy in your avatar's name. I had a crazy flashback to my WCW days from when I was like 10 years old. That's dude's a wrestler right?
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Old 07-24-2009, 04:51 AM    (permalink
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SuperMcgee...what the **** is the guy in your avatar's name. I had a crazy flashback to my WCW days from when I was like 10 years old. That's dude's a wrestler right?
La Parka



Heh..."The Chairman of the WCW"
Flashback indeed.
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:26 AM    (permalink
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kind of going off the espn power rankings

Ravens(6) Jets(20)

thats about it
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:41 AM    (permalink
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The saints on this board are being given more props than any other team in the south and unjustifiably so. They've been expected to fire for a while now since their NFCCG appearance and are yet to do so.

There's no reason to expect Carolina or Atlanta to fall off. The Saints are still third in the division and Carolina and Atlanta are still two of the top teams in the NFC.
Unlike past years, this year we actually have a defensive coordinator.
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:46 AM    (permalink
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the whole NFC South besides the Saints
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi View Post
New Orleans is being overrated imo.
whilst i disagree with both, having these posts so close together made me giggle.

With respect to the NFCS:
I think the falcons are somewhat overrated due to the fact that they played the easiest schedule ever last season, I think they actually might get better but end up with a worse record because of the schedule.
Given how people rate the bucs they can hardly be overrated, there is no place left on the lower side.
The panthers are a big mystery to me next season. all is in the hands of delhomme who can play like a proper qb and can play like a moron, if he does the first they'll be really good, otherwise not so much.
My saints homer bias!!!!!!!, I think we will do pretty well, but we are depending on four things imo.
-does our defensive backfield gel quickly enough (the talent is there now)
-are we able to get a stable running game (young interior linemen might develope enough + nobody knows how good pierre thomas is exactly)
-DLine production (despite teams passing on us all the time cuz we score so much we still didnt get a lot of sacks, must be better)
-less injuries(bush, shockey, colston,half the OLine,Smith,Ellis just to name a few of the less enjoyable absentees for a big part of the season, surely lightning cant strike twice, please)
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Old 07-24-2009, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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Default Over rated

The Jets. They have a rookie QB, they have a disgruntled pair of RB's, they have lost a solid receiver in Coles, and really only have Cotchery plus a few unknowns, they have a 2008 FA star signing in Pace who is suspended for the 1st 4 games, they have a rookie head coach and many so called experts are claiming they will have a winning season & playoff bound. No chance.
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Old 07-24-2009, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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the panthers have yet to have back to back winning seasons under Fox
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Old 07-24-2009, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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Houston seems to be every sports writers pick as the dark horse team this year, but I just don't see it.

They've improved their front 7 on defense, but their secondary is just awful. Their best corner is Dunta Robinson who is a shadow of what he was before the injury, and their other corners are just terrible. At safety they have an undersized linebacker who stinks in coverage, and a slow corner who is average on a good day.

Their offense could be a juggernaut if they can stay healthy, but if Slaton goes down for any length of time there is absolutely nothing behind him. Without a running game their play action oriented passing attack isn't going to be very effective, which is going to leave their injury prone QB exposed.

The odds of them having more than 8-9 wins is pretty slim, and I don't see them as a playoff team.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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They did? 3-4 in the last seven games, including the playoffs. Some of the notables include 14 points against Philly at home, 8 against Dallas on the road, and 11 at home against Philly in the playoffs. They averaged 20.8 ppg in that time frame. They averaged 29.2 ppg before that.



The running game's not the issue. The passing game is. Andre Brown and Danny Ware don't play WR. The passing game went down the crapper after Burress' incident.



Defense wasn't the problem either.

I'm not sold on the Giants. Yes, they can run the ball and play defense, but you do have to pass it occasionally. Show me who their #1 WR is. In that offense, you need one. They don't have it.


We redesigned the system to fit our existing WRs. We have Manningham, Hixon, Smith, Nicks, Barden, Moss, and Tyree. We also drafted Beckum as well. This new system is going to be adjusted big time to fit our existing talent. We don't need a # 1 WR. We are not even a hardcore passing team. We are a running team, and we will have the balance now which we didn't when we had Burress.

Running the ball (Ball control), and great defense is going to be how we win. I think we will utilize alot of different WR personnels and mix and match depending on our opponent.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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We redesigned the system to fit our existing WRs. We have Manningham, Hixon, Smith, Nicks, Barden, Moss, and Tyree. We also drafted Beckum as well. This new system is going to be adjusted big time to fit our existing talent. We don't need a # 1 WR. We are not even a hardcore passing team. We are a running team, and we will have the balance now which we didn't when we had Burress.
Manningham- Has done nothing so far.
Hixon- A good slot receiver, maybe a decent #2 if he hits his potential.
Smith- Third down guy.
Nicks- Hasn't played a down.
Barden- Hasn't played a down.
Tyree- Give me a break.

I firmly believe that Manning needs a #1. He's done nothing to dispel those thoughts.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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Manningham- Has done nothing so far.
Hixon- A good slot receiver, maybe a decent #2 if he hits his potential.
Smith- Third down guy.
Nicks- Hasn't played a down.
Barden- Hasn't played a down.
Tyree- Give me a break.

I firmly believe that Manning needs a #1. He's done nothing to dispel those thoughts.
That's why you refit the offense to fit the existing group. They still have a certain skill set, and so you adjust the passing game to fit it. Smith is going to playing Z, Hixon X, in the regular package, and in the other personnel groups everyone will be playing different spots.

With the offense not adjusted when Plax went down it's pretty damn hard for Manning to do much with a 90 year old Toomer and Hixon basically tossed in as X full time, with plays designed for Plax's skill set.

I am 100% confident two veteran coaches like Coughlin and Gilbride fixed this issue from last season during this years offseason.

You will see.. I am not worried. It's not like we are the Arizona Cards and throw a million times a game.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Overrated teams;

Falcons-They will be a good team but their defense isn't good enough plus Matt Ryan and Michael Turner have to show they can do it for more than one year. Gonzo will be a big help though.

Bears-The defense has been slipping in the past few years and without much weapons outside of Forte and Olsen then Cutler wont do much.

Cincinnatti
-A lot of people are saying they could make playoffs and are a potential sleeper pick. Palmer gives them a lot but even with rising stars like Leon Hall, Keith Rivers etc they are still a mediocre team in my opinion. Plus they play in a tough division.

A few thoughts on some previous comments. The Giants are not overrated in my view. With their defense and run game plus a few dependable WRs and very good o-line they will be tough to beat. I don't get why a few are saying the Patriots. The only thing that can be argued is if Brady isn't mentally prepared yet. But even if he is he will still be better than Cassell. Plus the defense, run game and TEs have all improved from the '07 season.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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kind of going off the espn power rankings

Ravens(6) Jets(20)

thats about it
Wow, how bad do you think the Jets are going to be? Top 5 pick? I have to admit I won't be surprised with anything the team does this year unless they do very, very well so it's hard for me to say I disagree. But you must think they'll definitely be awful to list them as overrated based off of a power ranking of 20.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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How come no one is mentioning Indianapolis with the loss of Dungy? Sure, their offense remains potent, but losing their unifying force could prove problematic. Their RB situation still appears unsettled, and is the D good enough and healthy enough to finish? The rest of the division isn't getting worse... I'll go with the Colts.
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Old 07-24-2009, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
How come no one is mentioning Indianapolis with the loss of Dungy? Sure, their offense remains potent, but losing their unifying force could prove problematic. Their RB situation still appears unsettled, and is the D good enough and healthy enough to finish? The rest of the division isn't getting worse... I'll go with the Colts.
I was just about to post that. They really haven't gotten better and division is going to be even stronger. They lost Tony Dungy and Ron Meeks and they haven't added anyone defense. You know there offense will be good but its not as dominant as it used to be/ People are assuming they're going to be as good as they usually are but I think this year they will drop down a bit. I understand with Peyton you can never count out the Colts but I predict that they'll miss the playoffs with a 9-7 record.
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Old 07-24-2009, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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How come no one is mentioning Indianapolis with the loss of Dungy?
Because Geo will cut my balls off if I did. :)
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Old 07-24-2009, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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According to this thread: Dallas, all the NFC south, giants, falcons, ravens, patriots, Miami, jets, houston, bears, and Cincinnati, almost half of the league. Hard to believe the colts are overrated, Manning will be starting injury free, and the offense should be enough to carry them to the playoffs.
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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That's why you refit the offense to fit the existing group. They still have a certain skill set, and so you adjust the passing game to fit it. Smith is going to playing Z, Hixon X, in the regular package, and in the other personnel groups everyone will be playing different spots.

With the offense not adjusted when Plax went down it's pretty damn hard for Manning to do much with a 90 year old Toomer and Hixon basically tossed in as X full time, with plays designed for Plax's skill set.

I am 100% confident two veteran coaches like Coughlin and Gilbride fixed this issue from last season during this years offseason.

You will see.. I am not worried. It's not like we are the Arizona Cards and throw a million times a game.
Why didn't they adjust the offense when Plax went down? I understand that you can't revamp the entire playbook, but still. Honestly, what receiver should teams be afraid of? Who's going to command double teams the way Plax did? Who's going to take that extra safety out of the box?

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Old 07-24-2009, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Unlike past years, this year we actually have a defensive coordinator.
Not trying to sound like an asshole, but every year the saints have a new cornerback or new linebacker or several new draft picks or a new coach who's going to change things.

I'll agree a lot of pieces of the puzzle have been added, largely due to the previous years drafting and signing so I expect an improvement, but I don't think you can simply be given benefit of the doubt, due to the track record.

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the panthers have yet to have back to back winning seasons under Fox
A few years ago Tom Brady never threw more than 28 touchdowns, DeAngelo Williams never had more than 500 yards and Jay Cutler was a bronco.

We american football dude.

Keep in mind last year the Carolina backfield as a unit produced over 5 yards per carry...

Carolina line ranked first in both conversions on short yardage running plays with a 79 percent conversion rate and in percentage of yardage gained beyond 10 yards. In other words even in obvious running situations 4/5 times the Panthers converted and more often than anyone in the league one of the backs popped a run for more than 10 yards.

This is with the starting offensive line only having 7 games as a complete unit.

Behind Otah a rookie there was a DVOA average of 4.6ypc off right tackle.

Their sacks allowed was good enough for 9th in the league.

With a great offensive line and running game, not to mention a top 5 receiver and solid defense it's hard to see Carolina having a losing season.
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