And the Worst Off-Season in NFL History Continues

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by Geo

Give it some time. Moreno will be fine if he misses the first 2 or 3 days. Interesting choice of #27 as his jersey number.

Btw the young cornerback who most caught my eye last season? Probably Andre Goodman of the Miami Dolphins, who the Broncos signed in the offseason. Keep an eye on him.


I was kind of saving this for something, but I guess I'll post this here:

Everyone thinks the trade for Alphonso Smith is so terrible. I don't think it necessarily is, actually. Maybe even genius? They traded what is probably a Top 10, if not really a Top 5 (or 3?) pick in the 2010 Draft for a second round pick in Alphonso Smith.

They acquired a 1st round talent (imo) and saved $30-50 million in doing it.

Let's say for the sake of example that the Broncos have the 5th overall pick next year.

2007 5th overall Levi Brown: 6 years, base value $37.47M, max value $61.95M, guaranteed $18.05M.
2008 5th overall Glenn Dorsey: 5 years, base $33M, max $55.5M, guaranteed $22.5M.
2009 5th overall Marc Sanchez: 5 years, base $44.5M, likely $50.5M, max $60M, guaranteed $28M.

and then compare that to

2009 37th overall Alphonso Smith: 4 years, $4.08M with $2.15M signing bonus.

That money saved could go to a Brandon Marshall extension or signing a major impact free agent (like Vince Wilfork!) next summer. The key is spending that money saved though.

Also acquiring Smith and Goodman might perhaps lead to trading Bailey next year, which means additional assets.

Come on Geo, I don't care how you spin it but that was a terrible move, and you said it may actually be genius?


For one, why not trade the Bears pick away? It's like they forget they owned it, maybe it was arrogance that made McDaniels think his team would be better, but the Bears pick looked to be later in the 1st even before Denver started falling apart.


Secondly, Alphonso Smith isn't "top 5 good", he went in the 2nd in a weak draft class, even further if the CB class is as good as say last year for example.


Next year that pick could end up being Sam Bradford, Jevan Sneade, a potential elite player that can change a franchise. Your also leaving out the fact that they just gave Seattle that top 5 pick.


So it's not like they just saved money, they took a player of way lesser talent, and gave another team a top 10 pick and possible top 5 for a player who will probably end up "solid".


Even if you want to look into all that "saving money" stuff, nobody trades away a top 10 pick next year for a pick in the 30's, do you really think they can't get a better corner with that pick next year? It's not like their strapped for cash anyway, they need players, and if Alphonso Smith doesn't turn into a pro bowler it'll look like a huge fail.

[Borat]

Yep. They could have held onto that pick and taken Eric Berry next year if they really wanted to address the secondary.

[bigbluedefense]

seriously, its not even fair. the Giants have to go through the Eagles, Cowboys and Redskins.

And the damn Chargers can go 7-9 and still win the division. wth man.

[CC.SD]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

seriously, its not even fair. the Giants have to go through the Eagles, Cowboys and Redskins.

And the damn Chargers can go 7-9 and still win the division. wth man.

I would still buy the division champ gear. 4 in a row! 5/6. Anyway the Bolts will get to at least 10 wins on the strength of Merriman's return alone.

I wouldn't freak out over your 1st rounders not being signed Jimmy. It's happening league wide. Sucks to be Alphonso Smith though, very curious to see who that pick ends up being next year.

[Xonraider]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

seriously, its not even fair. the Giants have to go through the Eagles, Cowboys and Redskins.

And the damn Chargers can go 7-9 and still win the division. wth man.

maybe the damn Raiders can do that? :D

[Calvin & Kevin]

Originally Posted by Brent

Ford Motor Co. ain't doing so hot either.

Read the news once in a while. Ford just posted a surprise 2.3B profit for the quarter, their stock price has more than doubled since its low point, and as the only US automaker that didn't accept bailout money, they are primed to bounce back (though it's still admittedly a long road).

As for the Lions, it's looking more and more like this was the best possible year to have the #1 overall pick instead of the worst like some Lions fans were moaning about.

Stafford has looked great so far (for what it's worth) and more specifically, it looks like next year's uncapped year and the uncertain future beyond has caused agents to play harder ball with their first rounders than ever before (as speculated by one NFL commentator with the initials of M. Florio). So getting the first overall pick signed before the draft might turn out to be even more important this year, the huge money they paid him notwithstanding.

Of course, I believed from the beginning that, like with all incredibly huge rookie contracts, Stafford's contract would look pretty ordinary only a year or two later, and if he's a true franchise QB, it will be a bargain for most of its length.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Xonraider

maybe the damn Raiders can do that? :D

wouldn't that be something?

yeah....thats not happening haha :p

although im rootin for them just for the fans' sake. they need a good year. badly.

Originally Posted by CC.SD

I would still buy the division champ gear. 4 in a row! 5/6. Anyway the Bolts will get to at least 10 wins on the strength of Merriman's return alone.

I wouldn't freak out over your 1st rounders not being signed Jimmy. It's happening league wide. Sucks to be Alphonso Smith though, very curious to see who that pick ends up being next year.

I think your fate as a team will depend upon your RBC. Everything else is in place. They're built to win a SB, but only if that RBC can pick it up.

I personally don't think LT has any gas left, so to me, it depends on whether Sproles can hold up for an entire season.

Everyone is sleeping on Merriman. I think he outperforms Ware this year and re-establishes himself as the best 3-4 OLB in the league.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Originally Posted by Geo

Give it some time. Moreno will be fine if he misses the first 2 or 3 days. Interesting choice of #27 as his jersey number.

Btw the young cornerback who most caught my eye last season? Probably Andre Goodman of the Miami Dolphins, who the Broncos signed in the offseason. Keep an eye on him.


I was kind of saving this for something, but I guess I'll post this here:

Everyone thinks the trade for Alphonso Smith is so terrible. I don't think it necessarily is, actually. Maybe even genius? They traded what is probably a Top 10, if not really a Top 5 (or 3?) pick in the 2010 Draft for a second round pick in Alphonso Smith.

They acquired a 1st round talent (imo) and saved $30-50 million in doing it.

Let's say for the sake of example that the Broncos have the 5th overall pick next year.

2007 5th overall Levi Brown: 6 years, base value $37.47M, max value $61.95M, guaranteed $18.05M.
2008 5th overall Glenn Dorsey: 5 years, base $33M, max $55.5M, guaranteed $22.5M.
2009 5th overall Marc Sanchez: 5 years, base $44.5M, likely $50.5M, max $60M, guaranteed $28M.

and then compare that to

2009 37th overall Alphonso Smith: 4 years, $4.08M with $2.15M signing bonus.

That money saved could go to a Brandon Marshall extension or signing a major impact free agent (like Vince Wilfork!) next summer. The key is spending that money saved though.

Also acquiring Smith and Goodman might perhaps lead to trading Bailey next year, which means additional assets.

I'm confused. Are the Broncos in some sort of cap trouble that would necessitate the Smith trade? If not, it's a bad move. If they dump Bailey next year, they're going to have to make sure they're spending enough money on the roster, not too much. Banking on free agents hitting the open market is also a risky endeavor (I do think Wilfork may well hit the market, but I'm far from sold landing him would somehow rectify the trade).

I understand top 10 picks are risky. Half of them don't turn out like you hoped and a surprising number of them never do much of anything in the NFL. But hoarding money won't get the Broncos where they need to go. It's not like they'll be able to spend 40+ million dollars in cap room in the free agent period and the now risk the shot of missing out on a really special player that they could develop from day 1. All that for Alphonso Smith?

[Denver Bronco56]

i firmly think that if smith was 2 inches taller he would have been a top 15 pick...he was a very good college CB...just short


while i dont agree with the pick, he is a very talented player

[no bare feet]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27

i firmly think that if smith was 2 inches taller he would have been a top 15 pick...he was a very good college CB...just short


while i dont agree with the pick, he is a very talented player

but he is not 2 inches taller.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by no bare feet

but he is not 2 inches taller.

And he still wasn't as good as their pick will be next year. Even if he pans out you have to look at Seattle who basically moves up 30 picks next year for free and you gave them an easy chance to grab their LT of the future in 2010.


Giving up Chicago's pick and I would of given them a pass, the fact that they had two, and chose the pick that will most likely be higher in the 1st round, makes it look alot worse.

[Iamcanadian]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27

i firmly think that if smith was 2 inches taller he would have been a top 15 pick...he was a very good college CB...just short


while i dont agree with the pick, he is a very talented player

He is not just short, his 40 time was mediocre for a CB and suggests he will have serious problems becoming a NFL starter.

[jth1331]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

He is not just short, his 40 time was mediocre for a CB and suggests he will have serious problems becoming a NFL starter.

I love using 40 times and height as to suggest a player will have problems in the NFL. You don't need to have a blazing 40 time or be 6'2" to be good.

As for the Broncos, I think people underestimate the offense capabilities, for one. That was arguably a top 3 OL they had last year, and everyone is returning. That is the key ingredient to successful football, and the Broncos have that. That alone will help the offense as long as it doesn't hit a sophmore slump or injuries riddle it.
Defense is a complete question mark/unknown. Nobody really knows how well the team will transition to the 3-4. Heck, they could have amazing players step up and excel in the 3-4, and it could also turn into a complete disaster.
Frankly, I think people just throw the Broncos under the bus and expect at most 4 wins. I see them being able to squeeze out 6 wins, with the possibility of more.
Also, this is under the assumption Orton or Simms don't blow monkey balls and injuries don't riddle the team. Those things happen, and it is utter failure.

[Borat]

Originally Posted by jth1331

I love using 40 times and height as to suggest a player will have problems in the NFL. You don't need to have a blazing 40 time or be 6'2" to be good.

As for the Broncos, I think people underestimate the offense capabilities, for one. That was arguably a top 3 OL they had last year, and everyone is returning. That is the key ingredient to successful football, and the Broncos have that. That alone will help the offense as long as it doesn't hit a sophmore slump or injuries riddle it.
Defense is a complete question mark/unknown. Nobody really knows how well the team will transition to the 3-4. Heck, they could have amazing players step up and excel in the 3-4, and it could also turn into a complete disaster.
Frankly, I think people just throw the Broncos under the bus and expect at most 4 wins. I see them being able to squeeze out 6 wins, with the possibility of more.
Also, this is under the assumption Orton or Simms don't blow monkey balls and injuries don't riddle the team. Those things happen, and it is utter failure.

I don't see your 3-4 defense being effective without a good NT. Nolan brought with him that same "play a 3-4 without a good NT" philosophy which was pathetic and never worked.

[CC.SD]

Originally Posted by jth1331

Defense is a complete question mark/unknown. Nobody really knows how well the team will transition to the 3-4. Heck, they could have amazing players step up and excel in the 3-4, and it could also turn into a complete disaster.
Frankly, I think people just throw the Broncos under the bus and expect at most 4 wins. I see them being able to squeeze out 6 wins, with the possibility of more.
Also, this is under the assumption Orton or Simms don't blow monkey balls and injuries don't riddle the team. Those things happen, and it is utter failure.

Hmm I am not quite ready to make that assumption. Seriously the Broncos should have waited to change over the defense...or just not done it. The personnel simply doesn't fit and now they're on a two-toned makeover mission. Disaster is in the air.

[Sniper]

Originally Posted by Borat

HA. I'm actually on that bandwagon. Hop on.

I've also been on this wagon.

[jth1331]

Originally Posted by Borat

I don't see your 3-4 defense being effective without a good NT. Nolan brought with him that same "play a 3-4 without a good NT" philosophy which was pathetic and never worked.

There is a couple guys who might be able to do it, such as Carlton Powell, Chris Baker, Ron Fields, etc. Won't know until the guys actually take the field.

[Bigburt63]

Originally Posted by CC.SD

Hmm I am not quite ready to make that assumption. Seriously the Broncos should have waited to change over the defense...or just not done it. The personnel simply doesn't fit and now they're on a two-toned makeover mission. Disaster is in the air.

It can't get much worse than the defense last year. Aside from Bailey, there were very few bright spots on that side of the ball.

[jth1331]

Originally Posted by Bigburt63

It can't get much worse than the defense last year. Aside from Bailey, there were very few bright spots on that side of the ball.

In my view, it had a couple average/above-average guys expected to play as excellent, and a slew of below-average/average guys expected to play as average/above-average.
Oh, and some guys who sucked balls expected to play as average too.

Add it all up, and you have a horrible defense. The worst safeties I might have ever seen play on a NFL team. Followed by a horrible make shift LB crew that was routinely out of position to make plays. Lastly, a DL that couldn't rush the passer and actually played the run about average, but of course no LB or safeties worth a damn to make the tackle.

[vikes_28]

I actually think the broncos will have 8+ wins this year. I may just be optimistic though....

[LizardState]

Originally Posted by Brent :
Ford Motor Co. ain't doing so hot either.


Read the news once in a while. Ford just posted a surprise 2.3B profit for the quarter, their stock price has more than doubled since its low point, and as the only US automaker that didn't accept bailout money, they are primed to bounce back (though it's still admittedly a long road).

As for the Lions, it's looking more and more like this was the best possible year to have the #1 overall pick instead of the worst like some Lions fans were moaning about.

Stafford has looked great so far (for what it's worth) and more specifically, it looks like next year's uncapped year and the uncertain future beyond has caused agents to play harder ball with their first rounders than ever before (as speculated by one NFL commentator with the initials of M. Florio). So getting the first overall pick signed before the draft might turn out to be even more important this year, the huge money they paid him notwithstanding.

Of course, I believed from the beginning that, like with all incredibly huge rookie contracts, Stafford's contract would look pretty ordinary only a year or two later, and if he's a true franchise QB, it will be a bargain for most of its length.

Here, here. FoMoCo underwent their QC nightmare back in the 70s & made changes, remember the Ford has a better idea lightbulb ads? Ford is the only US automaker that didn't take the bailout $ to their great credit, & are now turning it around to post a profit, also they are way ahead of GM & others on the hybrids & alternate fuels vehicles. GM & Chrysler did not & now are dependent on US Govt. handouts & foreign automaker mergers to stay afloat, both of which I adamantly disagree with, if they're too big to go bankrupt they're too big to exist, no more extortion of taxpayer $ -- don't get me started on that! I drive a FoMoCo SUV & get **** MPG on California fwys, so I drive it very seldom.... whadya-gonnado?

The Lions upside is 400% > than their downside, they could only get better. if they can overcome the lingering locker rm. demoralization from 08 they can do well. If I read your assessment & Florio's analysis right, they've spent their $ well this yr on Stafford when you compare this yr & next yr's QB classes.

Denver on the other hand has dug its own grave with a double shovel. I expect them to be drafting in the top 4-5 teams next yr, & that will make Jerry Angelo, Jay Cutler & the Bears very happy.

[jth1331]

Originally Posted by LizardState

Here, here. FoMoCo underwent their QC nightmare back in the 70s & made changes, remember the Ford has a better idea lightbulb ads? Ford is the only US automaker that didn't take the bailout $ to their great credit, & are now turning it around to post a profit, also they are way ahead of GM & others on the hybrids & alternate fuels vehicles. GM & Chrysler did not & now are dependent on US Govt. handouts & foreign automaker mergers to stay afloat, both of which I adamantly disagree with, if they're too big to go bankrupt they're too big to exist, no more extortion of taxpayer $ -- don't get me started on that! I drive a FoMoCo SUV & get **** MPG on California fwys, so I drive it very seldom.... whadya-gonnado?

The Lions upside is 400% > than their downside, they could only get better. if they can overcome the lingering locker rm. demoralization from 08 they can do well. If I read your assessment & Florio's analysis right, they've spent their $ well this yr on Stafford when you compare this yr & next yr's QB classes.

Denver on the other hand has dug its own grave with a double shovel. I expect them to be drafting in the top 4-5 teams next yr, & that will make Jerry Angelo, Jay Cutler & the Bears very happy.

First, I have no idea what the nonsense was about the Lions, Ford Motor Company, no idea why you talked about that.

Anyways, I think people overreact to the moves the Broncos made. As well, why would the Bears and Jerry Angelo care what the Broncos do?

[bored of education]

jarvis moss may retire. lol

[Nalej]

Originally Posted by jth1331

Anyways, I think people overreact to the moves the Broncos made. As well, why would the Bears and Jerry Angelo care what the Broncos do?

Maybe he meant Seahawks- the worst the Broncos do- the higher Seattle picks.

[LizardState]

Originally Posted by Nalej

Maybe he meant Seahawks- the worst the Broncos do- the higher Seattle picks.

Thanx for the correction, I meant whoever holds the #1 Denver pick in 2010. Mortgaging their immediate future exacerbated the controversy created by trading Cutler.