ESPN cold hard facts

BuffaloDraftGeek · 03-09-2007, 02:56 PM

Two of their questions: Most improved and most regressed team this offseason.

Biggest winner: Patriots, because they signed a lb who filled a void and signed a slot receiver... dumb.
Biggest Loser: Buffalo bills beacause they lost "their two best defensive players" (one of which they actually wanted to get rid of...), and traded away an "amazing RB" in willis mcgahee.

Espn really is getting old with their routine of bowing down to the patriots and disreguarding every small market team.

GiantRutgersFan · 03-09-2007, 02:58 PM

Well I agree about the Patriots being the biggest winner.

I disagree about Buffalo. They really added to their Offensive line. Although Fletch and Clements will hurt, I still think the Bills will be about .500 next year if Losman proves this year wasnt a fluke

bills_red · 03-09-2007, 02:59 PM

"amazing RB".....lol
So 3.8 a carry get you an "amazing RB" these days

Yes our D went down but our O-Line went way up. I say we had a OK FA. Not bad but not great.

Windy · 03-09-2007, 03:00 PM

ok...we already have a winners/losers thread.

BuffaloDraftGeek · 03-09-2007, 03:02 PM

What I don't understand is the outcry over the loss of fletcher. Replacing him will be an upgrade. Anyone who knows football and saw the bills last year knows he couldn't cover to save his life, and all his tackles were 5-7 yards down field.

eaglesalltheway · 03-09-2007, 03:04 PM

Pats did upgrade a lot, I can see them as the big gainers, But the Bills lost some players, and gained some players. They did OK, but certainly there are teams that did worse.

BuffaloDraftGeek · 03-09-2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway

Pats did upgrade a lot, I can see them as the big gainers, But the Bills lost some players, and gained some players. They did OK, but certainly there are teams that did worse.

Again, I don't understand this viewpoint. The patriots signed one starter away from another team, Thomas, who by the way just filled the void banta-cain left.

As for Wes Welker, he was a slot receiver in miami, ntohing more. He's good on punts, and is a decent threat, but lets face it, he's a slot receiver who got OVERPAID.

Other than that, the only two other players the patriots signed were a backup RB and backup TE (both filling spots left by FAs).

At the same time they still have 10 other UFAs they haven't resigned...

Patriots gained one good player, that's it.

hugegmenfan · 03-09-2007, 03:20 PM

i mean the bills have a lot of things to address in the draft- too many perhaps...thats why it was probably smart of them to trade willis they r probably the biggest losers
ya gotta go the 49ers with being the biggest winners- michael lewis, clements, banta cain, lelie- they improved greatly

Eagles own the NFC East · 03-09-2007, 03:33 PM

bills blow

Basileus777 · 03-09-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloDraftGeek

Again, I don't understand this viewpoint. The patriots signed one starter away from another team, Thomas, who by the way just filled the void banta-cain left.

AD will do more than just fill a void, he is a tremendous upgrade over Banta-Cain.

49ersfan_87 · 03-09-2007, 03:40 PM

The bills are doing ok. Willis was mediocre in Buffalo, Clements doesnt fit the cover 2, Fletcher neither.

They did get a good guard in Dockery. The only move i hate is the walker deal. Yeah, i can understand overpaying players this year. But walker is trash. He was horrible in Oakland. He doesnt deserve anything. Pennington probably has more upside.

toonsterwu · 03-09-2007, 03:42 PM

BDG, it's the small signings that end up making the difference, and landing a decent big backup RB (and keyword is backup), in Sammy Morris, and a blocking TE in Kyle Brady, along with a WR that really fits their schemes well at a fairly nice contract, those are solid steps, especially when you consider the market. Granted, the Patriots had the advantage of cap space and the extra first rounder, which allows them to be aggressive in their moves. But all in all, yes, I think the Pats are somewhere at the top. Brady should be fine replacing Graham as the blocking TE (not saying he's as good, but he should be fine filling the blocking role), allowing Watson/Thomas to handle the passing game chores. While Sammy Morris isn't anything to crow about, he's a decent big backup that allows them to not have to forcefully make a reach or a bad move for a RB. Adalius Thomas addresses 2 positions. It gives them an immediate pass rushing upgrade, and it "upgrades" ILB in that Vrabel now will be fulltime inside. Welker's a real good fit for the system.

I would have to look over all the teams to determine if the Patriots were the biggest winner ... but they surely have to be at the top of the list. They've addressed needs, and the guys they have added, on paper, look to be good fits. That's all you ever hope for in FA.

Rob S · 03-09-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagles own the NFC East

bills blow

sheer brilliance!

TheChampIsHere · 03-09-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloDraftGeek

Two of their questions: Most improved and most regressed team this offseason.

Biggest winner: Patriots, because they signed a lb who filled a void and signed a slot receiver... dumb.
Biggest Loser: Buffalo bills beacause they lost "their two best defensive players" (one of which they actually wanted to get rid of...), and traded away an "amazing RB" in willis mcgahee.

Espn really is getting old with their routine of bowing down to the patriots and disreguarding every small market team.

First off, the Patriots are having a great offseason. Thomas was the best FA on the market and he took a paycut to be the with the Pats, hes not earning nearly what Clements is and Ill take him over Clements anyday. Yes, CB is a more valeud position but Thomas can play every position there is on defense and flat out will make more impact. Welker was a solid addition who will help the team immediately, and I hear they may get Hartwell and theyll probly get him for a bargain and theyll use him as a 3-4 run stuffer which is what hes best at and theyll solidify what is now theyre biggest weakness. it is a great offseason. I hate the Pats but theres a reason they stay on top. Bellichick + Brady, plus great moves like these, year in-year out.

As for the Bills, McGahee is probably the most underrated HB in the league. The O-line of the Bills has been horrible his whole stay there. Especially the interior. McGahee can be a star, a top 5 back with some decent blocking but the Bills dont give it to him. Besides their LT Peters, who only last year established himself, who else good has been on that BUF o-line? Im not saying it was a bad move to lose him b/c he isnt the best fit for their offense anyways and he was gonna leave next year via FA, but he is a great running back and if I was BUF I woulda tried to lock him up long term and focus on upgrading the OL. But I can see why they made the move they did.

They lost Fletcher which is fine b/c he is overrated and was not helping their run D and they wanted to replace him with a guy who could help their run D more, plus who wants to compete with the Skins in a bidding war? But we were all assuming the guy they replace him with would be Patrick Willis. But now with need at HB, they may have to use that pick on a HB (Lynch? Trade up for AP?) And if they dont get Willis, they suddenly have a somewhat gaping hole at MLB. Sure, they could get someone else, maybe somone like Buster Davis would be a good fit for the cover 2, but when you get Buster, you realize you got another undersized backer very similar to Fletcher who wont be a run-stuffer.

As for Clements, they had no chance of matching what SF gave him and they seem to have prepared themselves for him leaving, but if you ask me, they should have tried to lock him up long-term a long time ago before he ever got on the UFA market. Hes a top CB in his prime and they shoulda just paid him awhile back (they wouldnt have had to pay anywhere near the 80 mil SD did) and had him on board because a guy like that is not easily replaced.

As for their signings? Dockery and Langston Walker I believe? First off, Dockery at 49 mill with Steve Hutch contract is one of the biggest rippoffs in FA. The bills let a quality guy like Clements walk and then blow it on an average OG like Dockery, who is not much more than a road-grader and who hasnt ever been good until last year really? Hey, this guy had a career season in his CONTRACT year, lets give him a huge long term deal. Im sorry, thats terrible planning and this signing could easily blow up in the Bills face. Dockery didnt deserve that kind of money by any stretch of the imagination.

Then Langston Walker? You guys gave him about 30 mill right? This is coming from a Raider fan who watches him every week.....unless you are just looking for a guy to block FGs, Walker will not live up to expectations. Bottom line he is a bum. Play after play, he just gets blown right by and our QB gets sacked in 2 seconds, especially on 3rd downs. Hes big and hes got some talent but he has been flat out horrible and last year he was without question the worst RT starting in the NFL. Also, hes coming off injury. So unless he makes a complete 180 degree turn on his career, that is gonna be wasted money.

So this small market team let go of a number of proven players who have established themselves as top players at their positions and instead opted to give 2 contracts to a couple of overrated lineman who didnt deserve to get long-term contracts.

Sorry, I gotta say it has been a piss-poor offseason thus far for the Bills. Theyre gonna need a good draft.

TNewFan41 · 03-09-2007, 04:47 PM

RSPN is a joke, don't take it to heart Bills fans. They are so stupid and have NO idea what they are talking about. I pisses me off so much when everyone follows SportsCenter like it i sthe bible, yet they don't know anything.

I love when they are covering a game, and a star player is playing bad, and the "experts" say: "Well to win this game, so and so has to play better". No, really? ESPN is a joke. I only watch it because I don't have NFL Network, and for breaking news.

toonsterwu · 03-09-2007, 05:05 PM

Btw, Dockery played real well last year. He struggled a bit 2 years ago, but he was real solid last year. Not saying he deserved the money, but a lot of people bag on the signing. If they felt like they could afford it, it does potentially solidify the inside of that OL with a good young piece.

If the Patriots can land Edgerton Hartwell, I'd be quite surprised, but that'd be a sweet addition for them. I'd be surprised, because as of now, Hartwell would be coming off the bench, and he'd have a hard time beating out Bruschi and Vrabel inside, unless injuries happened. I'd imagine that there should be better situations out there. I don't think anyone is going to hand Hartwell a starting spot, but there should be more competitive opportunities.

That said, if the Patriots can land Hartwell, that'd be a sweet addition for them. With Bruschi slowing down, they could rotate Vrabel could handle more of the coverage roles to allow them to work in Hartwell in a run-stuffing role. This would give them 5 deep that would allow guys enough breathers during the course of the year without dropping in productivity. This is, of course, assuming Hartwell is healthy. With Eric Alexander inside, their only LB need left would be finding a young edge guy to groom, something they could look for later on in the draft, allowing them a ton of versatility to either deal down, or to deal up.

fenikz · 03-09-2007, 05:06 PM

i actually agree with them entirely

fletcher isnt that big of a lose but McGahee is a beast and will only get better as he continues to recover from his ACL tear, while Clements might not be as valuable in the cover 2 he is still a great corner top 10 atleast maybe top 5

TheChampIsHere · 03-09-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toonsterwu

Btw, Dockery played real well last year. He struggled a bit 2 years ago, but he was real solid last year. Not saying he deserved the money, but a lot of people bag on the signing. If they felt like they could afford it, it does potentially solidify the inside of that OL with a good young piece.

If the Patriots can land Edgerton Hartwell, I'd be quite surprised, but that'd be a sweet addition for them. I'd be surprised, because as of now, Hartwell would be coming off the bench, and he'd have a hard time beating out Bruschi and Vrabel inside, unless injuries happened. I'd imagine that there should be better situations out there. I don't think anyone is going to hand Hartwell a starting spot, but there should be more competitive opportunities.

That said, if the Patriots can land Hartwell, that'd be a sweet addition for them. With Bruschi slowing down, they could rotate Vrabel could handle more of the coverage roles to allow them to work in Hartwell in a run-stuffing role. This would give them 5 deep that would allow guys enough breathers during the course of the year without dropping in productivity. This is, of course, assuming Hartwell is healthy. With Eric Alexander inside, their only LB need left would be finding a young edge guy to groom, something they could look for later on in the draft, allowing them a ton of versatility to either deal down, or to deal up.

I agree Dockery had a good 06 season but for a guy who has mostly been a career underachiever and then suddenly has a breakout year in his contract year, that raises a major red flag to me and I would never give a guy like that a 7year 49 mill contract. Even if he played every year like he did in 06, he still wouldnt be worth it IMO, but the thing is I wont be surprised if he goes back to his old self now that hes got his money. Way too much to invest in a guy like that IMO.

The way I see it with the Pats is Bruschi is near the end and he cant be an everydown backer anymore so that right away means Hartwell will be getting snaps and I bet Bruschi retires after this year so Hartwell would be a full-time starter in 08 which might be the best situation he can get. He might want a year to play part-time and get healthy before he jumps back into a full-time role anyways. For the Pats, it would be a great addition. I dont know if it will happen, but it would make a good deal of sense for both parties. Also, I would expect Hartwell wants to go back to the 3-4. Maybe SD goes for him?

jetsfan3 · 03-09-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

i actually agree with them entirely

fletcher isnt that big of a lose but McGahee is a beast and will only get better as he continues to recover from his ACL tear, while Clements might not be as valuable in the cover 2 he is still a great corner top 10 atleast maybe top 5

I agree with them entirely also. The Bills gained NOTHING, lost a premier RB, a solid LB, and a very good CB.

bills_red · 03-09-2007, 06:58 PM

[quote=jetsfan3;204982] lost a premier RB[quote]

When he played the Jets

jetsfan3 · 03-09-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bills_red

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetsfan3

lost a premier RB

When he played the Jets

Haha, I will most likely overrate him because he averaged 200 yards against the Jets, which is mostly the only time I saw him play.

doingthisinsteadofwork · 03-09-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

Well I agree about the Patriots being the biggest winner.

I disagree about Buffalo. They really added to their Offensive line. Although Fletch and Clements will hurt, I still think the Bills will be about .500 next year if Losman proves this year wasnt a fluke

how did they improve their Oline.They signed Walker.

Billingsley26 · 03-09-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

i actually agree with them entirely

fletcher isnt that big of a lose but McGahee is a beast and will only get better as he continues to recover from his ACL tear, while Clements might not be as valuable in the cover 2 he is still a great corner top 10 atleast maybe top 5

this has got to be one of the dumbest things ive heard. Mcgahee tore his ACL what 5 years ago...how long does it take to recover?? if anything id say hes REGRESSING. he was at 3.8 YPC...and hes a beast eh.. i guess running for 990 yards and 6 td's these days makes u a beast. Ever since he said he was the "best RB in the league" he has gone downhill. The Bills got so much better out of this deal. Another 3rd round pick..i would've traded Willis for a 3rd rounder alone...he aint nothing special and all he likes to do is run off at the mouth...maybe if he ran his mouth and also ran for 1400 yards and 14 td's that would be different, but he wasnt anywhere near that.

As for fletcher...no big loss, id say that a rookie coming i nthe year could do better, at least they would be more aggressive and make plays closer to the line. Clements was a loss no doubt, and he will be missed, but you cant dwell on that too much anymore, we gotta move on.

bearsfan_51 · 03-09-2007, 10:28 PM

It's worth noting that the only people that have a problem with it are Bills fans, who apparently are the only reasonable people on this entire board.

Oh and Jason Peters is the next Orlando Pace if you haven't heard that one yet.

BuffaloDraftGeek · 03-09-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

It's worth noting that the only people that have a problem with it are Bills fans, who apparently are the only reasonable people on this entire board.

Oh and Jason Peters is the next Orlando Pace if you haven't heard that one yet.

TNewFan41, EaglesAllTheWay, and GiantsRutgersFan are bills fans? Could've fooled me...

And in case you didn't know, bills fans, do in fact, know more about the bills than an average football fan who sees them once a year.