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View Poll Results: Who do you think is going to win the NFC East?
Dallas Cowboys 11 14.29%
New York Giants 29 37.66%
Philadelphia Eagles 32 41.56%
Washington Redskins 5 6.49%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2009, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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This division is really tough. Every team in this division could win it.

cant pick against my team, Cowboys
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by critesy View Post
orakpo has been looking amazing in camp and the one preseason game. he is probably going to be blitzing 75-80% of the time. and when he was in coverage he looked smooth in doing so, go watch the ravens and skins pre season game, he was in coverage like 3 or 4 times and did well, so good job on that one too.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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albert is not already hurt, he's hurt just like every other player is. they just dont want to over use him in camp and pre season to ware him out ya know. so good job looking that up.

orakpo has been looking amazing in camp and the one preseason game. he is probably going to be blitzing 75-80% of the time. and when he was in coverage he looked smooth in doing so, go watch the ravens and skins pre season game, he was in coverage like 3 or 4 times and did well, so good job on that one too.
You guys play a 4-3 right? I forgot..
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Obviously I went Giants BUT:

the Eagles (mainly westy) have had our number. Jim Johnson (RIP) also killed us, so we'll see how McDermott does filling his shoes. I'm still scared of Westy and Philly's overall speed on offense. Losing Dawkins hurts too.

The Cowboys: this year isn't their year, but honestly, that could be good for them. Why? then they can get Phillips the hell outta there. They've got a great foundation with 3 good RB's who can wreak havoc by committee, a good, fairly young #1 WR, and 2 kick ass TE's. Oh, and on D, they've got that Ware fellow. They've got some pieces, but this year isn't their year. Sub .500 in my book, which again, will probably help them in the future.

Skins: eh. fat Albert is nice, along with that DL (remember some skins fans saying the skins will NEVER draft a DE in the first and hadn't in like 20 years...yea, whoever that is, I hope he reads this and feels like an ass). But I'm not a fan of that OL and Campbell...I love the kid, but STOP MESSING WITH HIM WASHINGTON! 4 years, 4 new OC's or something like that. Trade rumors for Cutler and Big Taco. Like come on, show some faith. Portis is a beast, as is Santana but man, I dont see this team doing well this year at all.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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The Giants are relying on two rookie WRs. Historically rookie WR's do not have early impact. This will hurt the Giants.
No they're not. Steve Smith led the Giants in receptions last year. Domenik Hixon led the Giants in yards receiving last year. And that was with Toomer and Burress (for half a year) on the team. I think both will continue to lead the Giants in those respective categories.

And don't forget about Mario Manningham.

Will the rookies contribute at some point? Most likely. But, the Giants aren't relying on rookies. That's a myth.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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No they're not. Steve Smith led the Giants in receptions last year. Domenik Hixon led the Giants in yards receiving last year. And that was with Toomer and Burress (for half a year) on the team. I think both will continue to lead the Giants in those respective categories.

And don't forget about Mario Manningham.

Will the rookies contribute at some point? Most likely. But, the Giants aren't relying on rookies. That's a myth.
Well they did draft two WRs one in the 1st and one in the 3rd round. Actions like that don't scream confidence in your WR corps.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Well they did draft two WRs one in the 1st and one in the 3rd round. Actions like that don't scream confidence in your WR corps.
Take into consideration we changed our passing scheme as well since we no longer have Burress and Toomer. Another example is drafting an H back, hybrid TE, in Beckum. It really had nothing to do with confidence, but more to do with changing passing concepts now that we don't have two wrs like Plax and Burress.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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i picked the iggles over the giants by a whisker but i keep the right to change my mind if i see the giant receivers at work in proper football and playing okay.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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I had a real nice post for this that I had done at work, but the internet cut out and I saved it to that computer. Hopefully I'll get it up sometime soon, but I think it was a pretty fair post.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Well they did draft two WRs one in the 1st and one in the 3rd round. Actions like that don't scream confidence in your WR corps.
Don't read too much into who got drafted where. The Giants drafted Mathias Kiwanuka in the first round when they had Strahan, Osi and Tuck a few years ago.
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Went with my boys in the poll, obviously, but here's how I handicap it:


1. Giants (35%)

First of all, all Giants fans need to quit making excuses for the WR train wreck. If the Giants have success this year, it will be due to a dominant defense and running game, both of which they are capable of fielding. But this WR corps is the worst in the league, and there isn't a very close second that comes to mind.

However, their excellence along the defensive line and in the secondary make them a candidate for the #1 defense. The loss of Spags will hurt them more than anything. I think their LB corps is a weakness (Pierce started to decline to my eyes last year) and could hold them hostage on that side of the ball; its also something that hasn't gotten near enough play.

Ultimately, though, I see their ability to win the division coming down to how well they can maintain their running game. With no threats on the outside, will defenses be able to stifle Jacobs, Bradshaw and Co.? If so, I can see them missing the playoffs. If they are averaging 150+ a game like last year, I think they win the division.

2. Eagles (28%)

I see the Eagles as almost 1a in this discussion. I like what they are putting together at WR. After all these years, they are finally putting some playmakers around Donovon. Again, I am not big on their LBs, especially after they lost their best player at the position. But I've heard talk about the quality of some of their young guys, so I'm willing to watch that play out.

Ultimately, I see this team being defined by the explosiveness of their offense. If Westbrook plays like himself and stays relatively healthy (plays at least 13 games), while McNabb also stays healthy (its been well documented that he hasn't played 2 healthy seasons in a row for awhile), if the retooled offensive line can get on the field together and gel quickly, and if the support players--Jackson, Maclin, Curtis, McCoy--come through, I think they are a strong threat to lead the league in scoring and total offense. If that happens, I see them winning the division for sure, no matter what the Giants or Cowboys are able to do.

However, with a defense that is likely to take a step back this year due to the loss of JJ and defection of Dawkins (not to mention losing Bradley), they are going to be heavily reliant upon those things coming to fruition in order for them to be a contender. I think in this case there are just too many "ifs". As good as this team looks now, I think it could go south really fast. I see them as having the most upside, but also being the most volatile.

3. Cowboys (25%)

So many people overlooking the Cowboys this year. After the collapse late last year, though...can't really blame them too much.

The reality remains, however, that this team still sports a very impressive roster. If you look at the starting units, the Cowboys don't have a single weakness, being significantly above average in every unit (QB, ball carriers, recievers, OL, DL, LBs, DBs) on the team.

The issue with this team, though, is depth. Not just depth, but depth at key positions. CB, LB, NT, C, G, and OT all have serious issues with the backups, issues that dont' appear to have a ready solution should a starter go down. Last season injuries to Kyle Kosier (replaced by Cory Procter, a center who is best used for spot duty), Terence Newman (replaced alternately by two rookies, Pacman, and Alan Ball), Tony Romo (replaced by the visibly decaying Brad Johnson, aka Mr Checkdown), Marion Barber and Felix Jones (capably replaced by Tashard Choice, but robbing the team of much explosiveness, grit and experience) all left the team scrambling.

This year, issues still remain each of those positions except backup QB. Should a key player or two go down, the Cowboys won't be able to recover.

Additionally, this team is coached by Wade Phillips.

Thank you and goodnight.

4. Redskins (12%)

I underestimated this team last year and got burned.

Mainly, though, the early play of Jason Campbell gave them a real boost. He fell back to earth later on, though, and that's probably the main reason why the fell off with a whimper.

You have to respect Haynesworth, at least until he proves that he will stop trying with the new big contract, and I like the Orakpo move as well. They have a lot of talent on defense, and their offense isn't too bad, either. I see them as a 7-9 type team, but they could surprise, especially if Campbell regains his early season 08 form.




If I have to pick right now, I say the Giants are most likely to win it. But we all know how crazy the NFL (not to mention the NFC East) is. This time last year we were talking about the Giants as a potential 6 or 8 win team, and they steamrolled their way to a #1 seed. The Cowboys were the universally hailed team and they fell apart and missed the playoffs. There are many twists and turns left before this resolves itself.

It should be fascinating to watch.
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I already put my name to the Cowboys.

All the stuff they went through last year, they won 9 games and could have won 2 or 3 more. Phillips is handling the defense entirely. Barber and Felix are healthy, which is the key as the running game is what will lead them back to the playoffs. Not celebrity QB Tony Romo although he will contribute to their success.

The Eagles arguably look like the best team in the NFC on paper, but I have a feeling they won't look as good on the field. But still good enough to make the playoffs, unless McNabb really gets injured in his every-other-year deal.

Giants defense looks nasty though.

Washington, I have zero faith to make the playoffs. Sorry, none. The OL is struggling badly, which means Jason Campbell will be as useless as ever and Clinton Portis is a year older. They put a pretty good defense out there, but they can't hold every opponent to under 16 points.
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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First of all, all Giants fans need to quit making excuses for the WR train wreck. If the Giants have success this year, it will be due to a dominant defense and running game, both of which they are capable of fielding. But this WR corps is the worst in the league, and there isn't a very close second that comes to mind.
Really?

Jets
Dolphins
Rams
Bears
49ers
Raiders
Titans
Cheifs
Ravens
Cowboys

I'll take the Giants WR corp over all 10 of those teams.

Before pointing the finger, look at your Cowboys WR corp. Roy E Williams was putrid last season. Patrick Crayton is 30 years old and a mediocre #2 at best. Beyond that, a bunch of no names. For a team that passes on first, second and third down, you should be more concerned about your WRs than the Giants about theirs.
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Really?

Jets
Dolphins
Rams
Bears
49ers
Raiders
Titans
Cheifs
Ravens
Cowboys

I'll take the Giants WR corp over all 10 of those teams.

Before pointing the finger, look at your Cowboys WR corp. Roy E Williams was putrid last season. Patrick Crayton is 30 years old and a mediocre #2 at best. Beyond that, a bunch of no names. For a team that passes on first, second and third down, you should be more concerned about your WRs than the Giants about theirs.
Haha, that user name is dank.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Jets: No, they have a few decent WRs.
Dolphins: No, Ginn is starting to emerge, close though.
Rams: About even
Bears: Yes
49ers: For this season Giants have slight edge.
Raiders: NFL worst
Titans: G-Men top them.
Cheifs: Bowe and crap beats Giants.
Ravens: About even

The Giants do have a few young receivers that could emerge. Based on potential I'd want their WRs over a bunch of other teams, but not for this season.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Jets: No, they have a few decent WRs.
Dolphins: No, Ginn is starting to emerge, close though.
Rams: About even
Bears: Yes
49ers: For this season Giants have slight edge.
Raiders: NFL worst
Titans: G-Men top them.
Cheifs: Bowe and crap beats Giants.
Ravens: About even

The Giants do have a few young receivers that could emerge. Based on potential I'd want their WRs over a bunch of other teams, but not for this season.
I don't see it as a big deal this season only because we normally run a 1 X 1 formation which is specifically an Ace-Double Tight formation. So all we need is an X and Z out there, with two tight ends. That's pretty much our staple formation. The I pro family is where we normally run our offense from. If we run a WCO, Air Croyell, or spread, then I agree.. We need WRs, but the fact that everything is based on the running game doesn't bother me.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by <===3 View Post
Don't read too much into who got drafted where. The Giants drafted Mathias Kiwanuka in the first round when they had Strahan, Osi and Tuck a few years ago.
they originally drafted kiwi to be a slb though if im not mistaking
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:26 PM    (permalink
NY+Giants=NYG
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they originally drafted kiwi to be a slb though if im not mistaking
No, he was a DE.. But since we had a logjam at DE, we needed to get him on the field, so that's why we converted him. Spags wanted the best 11 on the field. The emergence of Tuck was as surprise, it happened soo soon. So We had Strahan, Tuck, Kiwi, & Osi. Originally Strahan would retire and Kiwi would fill in. But Tuck tore it up, and then that's when things got interesting.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Hmm... that is a contradiction, he is not hurt but he is hurt like everyone else?
-So you're telling me that everyone else is missing training camp and pre-season games because of a knee injury from last year? Interesting...

But, I'm probably in no position to speak about injuries seeing as the Eagles are dropping like flies. But, still it does not bode well for Big Al when he missed time at training camp with a knee injury from last year, especially considering the last time he played a full season was his rookie year.
i meant like.. he has bangs and bruises like everyone else so theyre not risking hurting him even more...

he hasnt missed any days of training camp either.. he practices in the morning then doesnt participate in afternoon practice but does conditioning and ****, ya know like ride the bike and what not.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Obviously I went Giants BUT:

the Eagles (mainly westy) have had our number. Jim Johnson (RIP) also killed us, so we'll see how McDermott does filling his shoes. I'm still scared of Westy and Philly's overall speed on offense. Losing Dawkins hurts too.

The Cowboys: this year isn't their year, but honestly, that could be good for them. Why? then they can get Phillips the hell outta there. They've got a great foundation with 3 good RB's who can wreak havoc by committee, a good, fairly young #1 WR, and 2 kick ass TE's. Oh, and on D, they've got that Ware fellow. They've got some pieces, but this year isn't their year. Sub .500 in my book, which again, will probably help them in the future.

Skins: eh. fat Albert is nice, along with that DL (remember some skins fans saying the skins will NEVER draft a DE in the first and hadn't in like 20 years...yea, whoever that is, I hope he reads this and feels like an ass). But I'm not a fan of that OL and Campbell...I love the kid, but STOP MESSING WITH HIM WASHINGTON! 4 years, 4 new OC's or something like that. Trade rumors for Cutler and Big Taco. Like come on, show some faith. Portis is a beast, as is Santana but man, I dont see this team doing well this year at all.
It doesnt count if we draft a DE and put him at LB
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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It doesnt count if we draft a DE and put him at LB
no, it counts. people gave Orakpo to the skins in mocks all the time and they bitched and moaned like crazy.

oh, and I feel that move is awful. just sayin'. but that's a topic for another time
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Jets: No, they have a few decent WRs.
Dolphins: No, Ginn is starting to emerge, close though.
Rams: About even
Bears: Yes
49ers: For this season Giants have slight edge.
Raiders: NFL worst
Titans: G-Men top them.
Cheifs: Bowe and crap beats Giants.
Ravens: About even

The Giants do have a few young receivers that could emerge. Based on potential I'd want their WRs over a bunch of other teams, but not for this season.
Jets have a few decent WRs? really, because I watch every Jets game and they've got Jericho and a bunch of young unproven guys. And Jericho's not that much better than Steve Smith or Hixon. Don't talk about stuff that you don't know about.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Jets have a few decent WRs? really, because I watch every Jets game and they've got Jericho and a bunch of young unproven guys. And Jericho's not that much better than Steve Smith or Hixon. Don't talk about stuff that you don't know about.

Or why don't you at least try to maintain some credibility and go after your boy there for making the ridiculous assertion that the Giants recieving corps is better than all those teams he listed, hmm?

The New York Giants will field a recieving corps that lacks a single reciever who has ever gone over 60 receptions or 700 yards in his career. Looking through the rosters of all NFL teams, there are only two teams that lack a reciever who has never gone over 60 receptions: Miami and Oakland. There is only one team who lacks a receiver who has ever gone over 700 yards in his career, being Chicago.

There is not a single team in the league aside from the Giants who has neither.

As much as Giants fans skeet all over Boss, he had a grand total of 33 catches for 384 yards last season.


Steve Smith is, ideally, a 3rd WR. He's a very nice option out of the slot and working the shallow zones. Try to make him carry your passing attack and you are going to be hurting pretty quick. There is a reason the Giants spent TWO OF THEIR TOP 3 PICKS ON WRs, as well as another one on a pass catching TE. They see the weakness and they are doing what they can to address it.

I'm not blaming the Giants for what they've done. Aside from TO, who was not an option for obvious reasons, there wasn't really any quality veteran talent available on the FA market, so they used the draft.

Not just that, but they appear to have a good enough ground game and defense to overcome their limitations in the passing game.


But this league is a passing league. The days of "run and stop the run" are long over, though people are so used to saying it that you still hear it bandied about on a regular basis. If those old standards had held true, the Minnesota Vikings would have won 3 Super Bowls this decade and the Colts would have never made the playoffs. Not having a single serious threat in the passing game will kill you. How can Giants fans seriously sit there and make all sorts of excuses about the DL injuries and all that when it is obvious that a SB quality team fell apart last year because of the loss of its only real threat?

I dont' want to go too far, because I have a lot of respect for what the Giants have assembled roster-wise. But a weakness like this can hold a team hostage.
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Jets have a few decent WRs? really, because I watch every Jets game and they've got Jericho and a bunch of young unproven guys. And Jericho's not that much better than Steve Smith or Hixon. Don't talk about stuff that you don't know about.
Not to pile on, but the first part of this is ridiculous homerism. You say that they have "Cotchery and a bunch of unproven guys" when ALL the Giants have is unproven guys. Dustin Keller was as much of a receiving threat last year as Steve Smith was, and the Jets have guys out of the backfield that are serious receiving threats as well.


AND JERICHO COTCHERY BY HIMSELF IS BETTER THAN ANYTHING YOU HAVE, which goes a long way to establishing a competent receiving corps. He may not be Calvin Johnson, but he's capable to taking on some doubles and providing a consistent threat. His best season is almost twice that of your best recievers best season. How can you be so far removed from reality?
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 08-21-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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But this league is a passing league. The days of "run and stop the run" are long over, though people are so used to saying it that you still hear it bandied about on a regular basis.

I disagree with that. If you can strike a good balance or even be in a run heavy offense, with creative passing concepts, you can survive in this league. But again there are so many variables to consider, such as system, OC, position coaches, and then players. I think like everything else in the NFL there are fads and trends but overall proven systems tend to stick around. I think a running team or a passing team can survive if they can do the other to a competent level.
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