And then there were two

VernonLawson89 · 08-21-2009, 12:15 PM

Andre Smith and Michael Crabtree.

who will sign last?

PalmerToCJ · 08-21-2009, 01:00 PM

They are trying to make progress with Smith, I'm not sure on Crabtree.

I'm going to guess Smith signs first, at least I hope.

JFLO · 08-21-2009, 01:48 PM

Read the poll wrong, I meant to vote for Crabtree...

Adam Schefter was on SC this morning saying that the two sides haven't talked in like a week or two...I doubt that has happened, but those two sides seem to be farther apart than the Cincy vs. Andre Smith debate.

Borat · 08-21-2009, 02:00 PM

Crabtree won't be signing any time soon. Most likely after the very start of the season. Hope Smith gets done way before that.

I've soured on Crabtree so much. I've gone from super excited on draft day, to practically hating his guts. This whole saga has been very disturbing for me.

BeerBaron · 08-21-2009, 02:04 PM

I voted Smith. Crabtree is definitely more high profile and volatile, but I think he and his agent will eventually accept the still very good top 10 money the 49ers are offering and get him in there.

Smith on the other hand, has been totally low balled by the Bengals so unless they offer him more, I could see that one prolonging.

vikes_28 · 08-21-2009, 02:04 PM

I also said Crabtree. My guess is he enters the draft next year and ends up busting like Mike Williams.

Brent · 08-21-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFLO

Read the poll wrong, I meant to vote for Crabtree...

Adam Schefter was on SC this morning saying that the two sides haven't talked in like a week or two...I doubt that has happened

according to Niners beat writer, Matt Maiocco, the Niners' chief negotiator has been on his cell phone non-stop the last three weeks, "who do you think he's talking to?"

JFLO · 08-21-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

according to Niners beat writer, Matt Maiocco, the Niners' chief negotiator has been on his cell phone non-stop the last three weeks, "who do you think he's talking to?"

Other free agent WR's agents?

Borat · 08-21-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFLO

Other free agent WR's agents?

Nope. We already have too many WRs as it is.

TitanHope · 08-21-2009, 02:58 PM

I'll go with Smith purely because Crabtree is on my NFLDCFF team. :D

drowe · 08-21-2009, 03:36 PM

funny that both holdouts can be attributed to Darius Heyward-Bey.

Crabtree think he should get more money than DHB, and the Bengals (probably) don't want to pay more than the insane contract DHB got for an out of shape RT.

Brent · 08-21-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drowe

funny that both holdouts can be attributed to Darius Heyward-Bey.

Al Davis knew what he was doing. You can't say taking DHB was a bad pick if the other guy isnt playing!

Splat · 08-21-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikes_29

I also said Crabtree. My guess is he enters the draft next year and ends up busting like Mike Williams.

I went with Crabs as well but would be shocked if he didn't sign atleast some time this season.

RaiderNation · 08-21-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

Al Davis knew what he was doing. You can't say taking DHB was a bad pick if the other guy isnt playing!

Exactly. I doubt Crabtree would sign with us the way he reacted when we drafted DHB(. IDK if Crabtree will sign though. Im 50/50 right now. Hopefully he doesnt so I can give some of my friends **** about how they wasted the 10th pick

themaninblack · 08-21-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Smith on the other hand, has been totally low balled by the Bengals so unless they offer him more, I could see that one prolonging.

I haven't seen the figures so I won't speculate but I think has more to do with the Raiders giving DHB a ~20% increase over last year's 7th overall pick than anything. Parlay that with the notoriously frugal Mike Brown, and you have all the makings for a nice n long contract dispute.

BeerBaron · 08-21-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaninblack

I haven't seen the figures so I won't speculate but I think has more to do with the Raiders giving DHB a ~20% increase over last year's 7th overall pick than anything. Parlay that with the notoriously frugal Mike Brown, and you have all the makings for a nice n long contract dispute.

It's my understanding (from reading PFT anyway) that the Bengals offered Smith a reasonable increase over last years pick at his spot, but it was less than what DHB got a pick behind him. So you knew that wasn't going to fly.....

ninerfan · 08-21-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat

Crabtree won't be signing any time soon. Most likely after the very start of the season. Hope Smith gets done way before that.

I've soured on Crabtree so much. I've gone from super excited on draft day, to practically hating his guts. This whole saga has been very disturbing for me.

Same feelings here. Part of me wants him in camp NOW, but the other more spiteful part hopes he doesn't sign, re enters the draft and drops to the 2nd or 3rd, signs a low ball offer and busts.

The guy is either: A) a complete moron or B) represented by a complete moron in which case see A).

Its gonna be hard to love this douche when he gets in.

Brent · 08-21-2009, 10:48 PM

he's going to have to tear up, to an extreme degree, to make us Niner fans forget.

themaninblack · 08-22-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

It's my understanding (from reading PFT anyway) that the Bengals offered Smith a reasonable increase over last years pick at his spot, but it was less than what DHB got a pick behind him. So you knew that wasn't going to fly.....

Yea, but what I'm saying is that DHB's contract had a higher increase than it "should" have been so it has kinda thrown the surrounding picks out of whack(especially in Andre's case as he's been "slotted" for some time). The Smith deal would have probably been done previously if the Raiders hadn't given him that much of a raise over last year's 7th pick. While I'll agree they need to just pay the man, this situation kinda displays how messed up the whole rookie contract "system" really is. The problem can also be attributed to the fact that Katie Blackburn is the one handling this whole process and is just absolutely clueless(and/or stubborn) as to how to get this deal done.

BeerBaron · 08-22-2009, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaninblack

Yea, but what I'm saying is that DHB's contract had a higher increase than it "should" have been so it has kinda thrown the surrounding picks out of whack. The Smith deal would have probably been done previously if the Raiders hadn't given him that much of a raise over last year's 7th pick. While I'll agree they need to just pay the man, this situation kinda displays how messed up the whole rookie contract "system" really is. The problem can also be attributed to the fact that Katie Blackburn is the one handling this whole process and is just absolutely clueless as to how to get this deal done.

Well, the main matter is that neither Smith nor his agent is going to accept less money than DHB got, stupid deal or not.

Smith, or most any player for that matter, isn't going to take less money than a non-QB taken after him (and they'll argue like hell that they should get more money even if it is a QB....it usually doesn't work out though.)

And the agent could potentially lose a lot of future clients if his rivals tell their potential clients that this guy took less money than a guy drafted behind him.

Anywhos, that's why I think Smith could last longer than Crabtree, though Crabtree is more "high profile."

I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it came over ESPN right now that he and the niners had struck a deal. His demands are far more unreasonable than Smith's, and if he realizes that, and realizes how much money he'll lose going back into the draft next year, he'll take the still top 10 money the niners are offering.

VernonLawson89 · 08-22-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Well, the main matter is that neither Smith nor his agent is going to accept less money than DHB got, stupid deal or not.

Smith, or most any player for that matter, isn't going to take less money than a non-QB taken after him (and they'll argue like hell that they should get more money even if it is a QB....it usually doesn't work out though.)

And the agent could potentially lose a lot of future clients if his rivals tell their potential clients that this guy took less money than a guy drafted behind him.

Anywhos, that's why I think Smith could last longer than Crabtree, though Crabtree is more "high profile."

I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it came over ESPN right now that he and the niners had struck a deal. His demands are far more unreasonable than Smith's, and if he realizes that, and realizes how much money he'll lose going back into the draft next year, he'll take the still top 10 money the niners are offering.

Hope you're right about Crabtree. I'm starting to worry that he'll actually sit the season.

aNYtitan · 08-22-2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drowe

funny that both holdouts can be attributed to Darius Heyward-Bey.

Crabtree think he should get more money than DHB, and the Bengals (probably) don't want to pay more than the insane contract DHB got for an out of shape RT.

Unfortunately how are you planning to bargain with the agent. Given with how the signings work out, you make more then the 7th pick but less then the 5th pick. The Bengals can't argue their point on this one, cause no agent is going to agree to a deal that pays his employer less money then the person drafted after him.

Don't see Crabtree and the Niners getting done soon, they are far apart cause Crabtree is acting up already, asking for money that he doesn't deserve and just acting spoiled. He has to accept that he wasn't drafted at 7, that he wasn't the first wideout taken, that he will have to get a contract somewhere between the 9th and 11th pick. I don't see how sitting out a season will help increase his bargaining price.

themaninblack · 08-22-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Well, the main matter is that neither Smith nor his agent is going to accept less money than DHB got, stupid deal or not.

Smith, or most any player for that matter, isn't going to take less money than a non-QB taken after him (and they'll argue like hell that they should get more money even if it is a QB....it usually doesn't work out though.)

And the agent could potentially lose a lot of future clients if his rivals tell their potential clients that this guy took less money than a guy drafted behind him.

Anywhos, that's why I think Smith could last longer than Crabtree, though Crabtree is more "high profile."

I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it came over ESPN right now that he and the niners had struck a deal. His demands are far more unreasonable than Smith's, and if he realizes that, and realizes how much money he'll lose going back into the draft next year, he'll take the still top 10 money the niners are offering.

I agree with what you're saying as well as your point about Smith's holdout most likely being longer than Crabtree's if the Bengals continue to think they have any real leverage with this deal. I just don't think they even realize that though I may sympathize with the situation they have been put in due to the Raiders not following the "trend", so to speak.

EDIT: And are Smith's demands really that unreasonable given the circumstances? I don't really know what they are asking for so maybe you could shed some light on that? I haven't really seen any indicationo f this but then again I haven't really been able to follow it to my liking.

ninerfan · 08-22-2009, 03:34 AM

Which player would be hurt more by a long hold out and potentially re entering next years draft?

For me both players have issues and missing 12 months of football is not going to improve their stock.

Suck it up, sign the deal and get to work proving your point boys

Rabscuttle · 08-22-2009, 09:06 AM

I voted Crabtree. His agent and "advisor" have adopted a position not based on reality and his immature ass has bought it hook line and sinker. Factor that in with the fact that he plays a position that isn't known for rookie production along with the Niners having a full depth chart of receivers and an offense that doesn't feature its wideouts and you have the makings of a holdout that really doesn't impact the product on the field.

It is a pr problem that can be dealt with nicely if Josh Morgan makes a couple of nice touchdown catches early in the season and Vernon Davis building on his preseason.

Both of these guys will see their stock plummet if they hold out the season. Smith definitely has equal talent coming out next year and Crabtree has some competition that will have speed on him. Both will see their names taken off several teams' draft boards entirely for pulling stunts like sitting out a season. No way can I see either one of their agents being so foolish as to risk future clients coming on board by blowing it with high profile cases like these.