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Old 09-06-2009, 10:24 AM    (permalink
superman8456
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Originally Posted by BradysKnee View Post
That's a 2011 Top Ten pick, which can be traded, or if a rookie pay scale is instituted becomes REALLY valuable. I think Brace/Burgess/Green will do fine, especially given the 4-3 looks this preseason.
Thats an ignorant statement, not to say that Im surprised its coming from a Pats fan though.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Holy ****, just got woken up at 8 am after getting drunk off my ass for this. Seymour is a good fit for us. Al finaly realized the dline sucks, so we get a Pro Bowler to play DT or DE. We also are close to signing vet DT Alfonso Boone who in a 4-3 is a alright run stopper

Ellis Kelly Boone/Warren Seymour on running downs

Ellis Kelly Seymour Scott on passing downs

Pretty respectable dline IMO. Biggest thing for me though is we resign him. 4 year deal for probably around 40-60 mil sounds accurate. Also we might not have a salery cap so that allows us to resign our good players

I really believe by 2011, we will be much improved, Russell will be getting in stride, DMC and Bush will be running all over the field, Chaz if healthy will be looking raw, DHB will look good running straight(lol), Miller will be one of the top TE's, and hopefully our oline is solid. No we wont be superbowl contenders, but we shouldnt be picking top 15 hopefully
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:28 AM    (permalink
Don Vito
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It makes sense for the Pats because he was a FA after this year and he was probably going to be the odd man out with Wilfork and Mankins needing to be signed, but it still sucks to see us lose Seymour. He has been a monster ever since he came here and will be missed terribly.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:29 AM    (permalink
Thumper
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Honestly I think this is a fantastic move for the Raiders.

You've got a young offense that is developing quickly with Jamarcus Russell, Michael Bush, Darren McFadden, Johnnie Lee-Higgins, Chaz Schilens and Zach Miller. That is a ton of talent and I didn't even account for DHB. If Jamarcus pulls it together this season, watch the Raiders offense because their offensive line is solid and they have explosive options all over the field.

Their main weakness was run defense, especially up the middle and I think that brining in Richard Seymour helps fix that. I think we all remember that he was drafted sixth overall as a DT out of Georgia. He will help take some double teams up the middle, penetrate the middle and keep the lineman off of Morrison and Howard. And with the secondary as good as it is with Aso the defense is a lot more complete right now in Oakland, not great but at least they won't get run over completely now. It also provides leadership and experience to a team where there is no clear cut leader.

But for New England I am left scratching my head. Who replaces him at DE? Jarvis Green? Are they really that confident in him, that they think he can replace the best 3-4 end in the NFL? I think the Patriots just lost a leader and a HUGE part of their defense. But it likely means that they are going to keep Vince Wilfork around with the money saved. But regardless, you don't just move a talent like Seymour on a dime like that especially when your replacement is Jarvis Green, who is good but no where near as good as Seymour.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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Thats an ignorant statement, not to say that Im surprised its coming from a Pats fan though.
Who are you kidding honestly
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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I am also really high on DE Matt Shaughnessy, think he can be a 8-12 sack guy in the NFL, while playing very well against the run. Also didn't Trevor Scott or w.e his name is play very well at DE last year for the Raiders.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Honestly I think this is a fantastic move for the Raiders.

You've got a young offense that is developing quickly with Jamarcus Russell, Michael Bush, Darren McFadden, Johnnie Lee-Higgins, Chaz Schilens and Zach Miller. That is a ton of talent and I didn't even account for DHB. If Jamarcus pulls it together this season, watch the Raiders offense because their offensive line is solid and they have explosive options all over the field.

Their main weakness was run defense, especially up the middle and I think that brining in Richard Seymour helps fix that. I think we all remember that he was drafted sixth overall as a DT out of Georgia. He will help take some double teams up the middle, penetrate the middle and keep the lineman off of Morrison and Howard. And with the secondary as good as it is with Aso the defense is a lot more complete right now in Oakland, not great but at least they won't get run over completely now. It also provides leadership and experience to a team where there is no clear cut leader.

But for New England I am left scratching my head. Who replaces him at DE? Jarvis Green? Are they really that confident in him, that they think he can replace the best 3-4 end in the NFL? I think the Patriots just lost a leader and a HUGE part of their defense. But it likely means that they are going to keep Vince Wilfork around with the money saved. But regardless, you don't just move a talent like Seymour on a dime like that especially when your replacement is Jarvis Green, who is good but no where near as good as Seymour.
Oh wait, did someone touch on some of these points at the end of the first page but it was forgotten because it was at the end of a page which I hate having happen?

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Anyone sitting back and thinking this is a good move for the Raiders and bad for the Pats is just crazy right now...

For one, Seymour only has a year left on his deal iirc. And there was no word that the Raiders signed him to an extension as part of the trade, so he very well could be gone by the time the 2011 draft even happens. You'd hope that the Raiders aren't that stupid but....they probably are.

And for the Pats, you get something in return for a guy who would have been tough to resign after this season anyway. Wilfork is younger and arguably more critical to the success of their defense, so extending him is far more important.

And let's not forget, this is the Pats. Love them or hate them, they get **** done and keep right on rolling. Next player will step in and we might not even notice a difference...
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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That's just it - we cut Seymour to save money so we can pay an unproven rookie more?

This offseason has been a nightmare.

I haven't really been following what the Pats have been doing?
Why has it been so bad?
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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This is beyond stupid by the Raiders. Seymour is in his contract year for one. And there's the fact that he turns 30 in October. And he can't seem to stay healthy anymore.

I don't see Seymour making that much of a difference for the Raiders. Even if he's on the field, their team isn't that great, and they are being overrated by many.

Great move by the Pats. They get what will most likely be a top 10, or even top 5 pick, for someone they were going to lose this offseason. Add that with his durability issues, and it's a downright steal.

But this is in no way a sign of the Pats moving to a 4-3. They'll probably try to resign Wilfork, and him and Warren are both perfect fits for the 3-4. Brace is a 3-4 guy as well.

I wonder if they'll try Brace at end now?
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Enough of he is not healthy. He played 15 games last year and tied in career high in sacks(8). This should be a good trade for both teams if we can resign him to a 4-5 year deal.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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You guys really think top 5? I doubt it, maybe top 10 but I can really see the Raiders finishing in the top 20 especially considering that the AFC West is pretty damn weak. I honestly like the Raiders more than the Chiefs and I can see the Raiders finishing 8-8 behind only the Chargers in the West.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Hopefully he doesn't..

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Old 09-06-2009, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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You guys really think top 5? I doubt it, maybe top 10 but I can really see the Raiders finishing in the top 20 especially considering that the AFC West is pretty damn weak. I honestly like the Raiders more than the Chiefs and I can see the Raiders finishing 8-8 behind only the Chargers in the West.
It's hard to say what will happen in 2011. Teams go from drafting high to the super bowl, a la Arizona and teams go from the super bowl to drafting high a la Oakland. If we know anything about the Patriots and their track record though, it will almost certainly put them in a position to land a stud that they have no right drafting, or they'll trade it for 14 future second round picks and draft their entire starting defense in a season. Things just usually work out for the pats.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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So so trade for the Raiders, great move by the Pats.

Seymour IMO is too old to trade for a more than likely top 15 pick in 2011.

It would have been better to let NE release him and sign Seymour next year as a FA.

Seymour doesn't make the Raiders a playoff contender, and he looks like he'll be gone to a serious playoff team after 2009. The Raiders aren't a player away on defense from making a deep playoff run, therefore the signing of Seymour doesn't make much sense.

But it should make the Raiders a much more unpredicatable team to play and increase their odds of pulling the occasional upset.

Belichick has freon for blood and only ever considers the bottom line, Ws and Ls.

Can't wait to see him try to dump Brady after he has another significant injury.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Its all about estimations. No one can say it will definitly be a top ten pick, but most people agree it is more likely to be ten pick than a pick at the end of the first round.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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This is HUGE for the Raiders IMO. They get a true defensive leader who can get a little chemistry going on that defense. It doesn't surprise me at all because of how much money he would probably want when his contract is up. Patriots don't over pay to many people.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Wow. I'm going to comment on this more when I get back from lunch. For now I'll say best case scenario is Seymour re-signs with Pats after this season (LOL.)
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Unless Al Davis dies by 2011, this will be a top 10 pick for the Patriots.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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If it's in the top 20 even, it's more than adequate value for Seymore. This is the second time that the Raiders gave up a first rounder for a two year rental on a player. And ironically both times it seems to have benefited the Pats.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Wow. I'm going to comment on this more when I get back from lunch. For now I'll say best case scenario is Seymour re-signs with Pats after this season (LOL.)
I'd kill someone... I really don't like this move..
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:40 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Steal by the Patriots. Seymour isn't the same player he used to be, and the Patriots have depth at DE.

Now they get rid of him for what will probably be a top 10 pick. He has 2 years left max of productive football. This was another Bellichick swindle.

Plus they have Ron Brace who they can sub in at DE. If ppl haven't noticed, Ty Warren has been their best DE for quite some time now.

Good move by the Pats, desperate move by the Raiders.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:42 AM    (permalink
Malaka
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Steal by the Patriots. Seymour isn't the same player he used to be, and the Patriots have depth at DE.

Now they get rid of him for what will probably be a top 10 pick. He has 2 years left max of productive football. This was another Bellichick swindle.

Plus they have Ron Brace who they can sub in at DE. If ppl haven't noticed, Ty Warren has been their best DE for quite some time now.

Good move by the Pats, desperate move by the Raiders.
I think this will benefit both teams, Pats get something instead of nothing since Seymour was going to be an FA, and the Raiders greatly improve their defense.

I think its a win win especially if Seymour plays well and the Raiders can extend him.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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I think this will benefit both teams, Pats get something instead of nothing since Seymour was going to be an FA, and the Raiders greatly improve their defense.

I think its a win win especially if Seymour plays well and the Raiders can extend him.
Its a good short term move by the Raiders, but giving up a 1st is a steep price. When you look at the value of this trade, it is heavily in favor of the Pats.

If I were the Raiders, I wouldve rather went after Corey Williams. In my eyes, he's more worth a 1st than Seymour is.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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I like the move for the Pats. They are obviously confident in their rotation, and now they more than likely have a top 10 pick in '11.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Oakland is crazy, they gave up a high first rounder for a declining 3-4 DE on a one year deal.
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