Best DB in the NFC East? - Page 13

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supporting Caste

This is a loaded, nonsensical thought, but I'll bite.

Cowboys fans were high on Newman at one point because he was awesome. He allowed something ridiculous like 1 touchdown in 25 games.

This year and at times, last year, Newman hasn't been nearly the same player. I don't know what the deal is. He's been hurt a lot so some assume he's still playing hurt, others point to his age and say he's slowing down.

I don't know what the deal is, myself. He hasn't looked any slower to me and most of his errors seem like rookie-ish mental mistakes (if not blatant acts of sheer idiocy), but I don't know if what appear to me as stupid actions are just him getting by on less athleticism.

In any case, it's not like Cowboys fans assessed the guy incorrectly and are flip flopping, as you imply. He's not the same player.

no, that's not what I'm implying at all. No flip flopping, I'm just saying, can Jenkins keep consistancy that Newman hasn't. Because people were all on T-New's jock JUST like this a few years ago. Again, no flip-flopping implied, just can Jenkins keep it up, unlike Newman.

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 08:43 AM

There is a false premise in a lot of these posts. T-New does not suck. He is not a pro-bowler, but he is still a good and at times a very good corner. He is just not as good as he once was.

He is 31 and entered the league older than most players, which is why he seemed to have such a short peak in his career, but he is still a good corner.

Damix · 01-05-2010, 08:56 AM

But age doesn't matter, only "football years" do.

Oh come on, TNewFan41 where are you.

Supporting Caste · 01-05-2010, 12:20 PM

Scotty: What do you consider a proper amount of success, then? Newman was a top cornerback for 4 years.

Damix: I'm not necessarily trying to defend the "football years are all that matter" argument, but I still haven't seen a concrete instance of Newman being any slower/less agile.

Everytime he gets burned it's because he's got his thumb up his ass or running in the wrong direction.

And that's puzzling because the guy never did that crap when he was younger, and you're supposed to get smarter as you gain experience.

I don't know. Newman isn't terrible but he's too inconsistent to be 'good,' I think. He plays really well sometimes and other times he's just atrocious and there's rarely a happy medium.

bigbluedefense · 01-05-2010, 12:26 PM

Let's face it, Newman is terrible now. He went from one of the best CBs in the league, to a below average one.

FreshBoy! · 01-05-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supporting Caste

I don't know. Newman isn't terrible but he's too inconsistent to be 'good,' I think. He plays really well sometimes and other times he's just atrocious and there's rarely a happy medium.

Pretty much. No inbetween. Either he's being seen doing something horrible, giving up a big play, or missing a tackle...Or the receiver he's covering has had a horrible day. It's frustrating, because he'll shut down a Steve Smith(Panthers), or a Djack, then the next couple weeks allow the opposing teams receiver to have a 7 for 100 yards and a TD type day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Let's face it, Newman is terrible now. He went from one of the best CBs in the league, to a below average one.

I think that's the very essence of what he was saying. At one point(When 'boys fans were high on him), he was one of the best CB's in the league. Now...not so much due to age/injuries/whatever. Which is his reply to Scottyboy asking why 'Boys fans were so high on Jenkins...and then misguidedly drawing comparisons.

Whatever his fall from grace was/is, it doesn't take away how great he once was.

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Let's face it, Newman is terrible now. He went from one of the best CBs in the league, to a below average one.

Yeah that is why Desean Jackson had such huge games playing against him this year. Ok. [/sarcasm]

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supporting Caste

Scotty: What do you consider a proper amount of success, then? Newman was a top cornerback for 4 years.

Damix: I'm not necessarily trying to defend the "football years are all that matter" argument, but I still haven't seen a concrete instance of Newman being any slower/less agile.

Everytime he gets burned it's because he's got his thumb up his ass or running in the wrong direction.

And that's puzzling because the guy never did that crap when he was younger, and you're supposed to get smarter as you gain experience.

I don't know. Newman isn't terrible but he's too inconsistent to be 'good,' I think. He plays really well sometimes and other times he's just atrocious and there's rarely a happy medium.

Why are you putting words in my mouth? When did I say he was not successful? I said he wasn't consistant as in he is nowhere close to how good he was just a year or 2 ago even. Cowboys fans were saying all this about T-New, and they were right...for about 2-3 years. Let's see if Jenkins keeps it up. T-New fell, HARD. I just want to see if Jenkins can keep up this level of play for more than 2-3 years. Let's see how good he really is. Many CB's go through hot streaks for a few years and fade out. THe special ones are guys like Champ, Nnamdi, McAlister, Woodson and perhaps even Revis who have consistantly been great.

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshBoy!

Pretty much. No inbetween. Either he's being seen doing something horrible, giving up a big play, or missing a tackle...Or the receiver he's covering has had a horrible day. It's frustrating, because he'll shut down a Steve Smith(Panthers), or a Djack, then the next couple weeks allow the opposing teams receiver to have a 7 for 100 yards and a TD type day.

I think that's the very essence of what he was saying. At one point(When 'boys fans were high on him), he was one of the best CB's in the league. Now...not so much due to age/injuries/whatever. Which is his reply to Scottyboy asking why 'Boys fans were so high on Jenkins...and then misguidedly drawing comparisons.

Whatever his fall from grace was/is, it doesn't take away how great he once was.

Ok, this inserting words in my mouth...it's got to stop. I never questioned why they were so high on him, I was simply wondering aloud if he can keep it up consistantly...my goodness. is reading comprehension really that hard guys?

Forenci · 01-05-2010, 03:45 PM

I agree with Scottyboy, but I've also taken this stance on Miles Austin too. Can we see Jenkins, or Austin for that matter, dominate for a year or two longer before we start saying they're worth top 10 draft picks and are 'elite' caliber players? How many hundreds of times have we seen players with break out years or a stretch run of 2-3 years of success and then fall off the face of the Earth?

This is especially true with cornerbacks as Scotty mentioned. You seldom find 'lock down' corners, and if you do it typically comes and goes in a short time period, often times not even due to age/injury.

Jenkins has been great but lets not forget he was dreadful his rookie year, which is fine because many rookie cornerbacks are, but who's to say next year he doesn't level off somewhere in between and goes from being a superb corner like he has been this year to good, but not great?

I think a lot of Giants fans (myself included) jumped on Corey Websters band wagon a little too quickly. He put together a stretch of almost two years where he was absolutely dominant and his play dropped off quite a bit this year. Granted that could be due to injury, an awful defensive coordinator, or because he had CC Brown/Aaron Rouse playing safety behind him, but it goes to show you how fast cornerbacks can go from lock down to mediocre.

All that having been said I'd still probably take Jenkins over any Giants corner. I will be interested to see if Webster bounces back with a (hopefully) better defensive coordinator and some safties behind him, and if Terrell Thomas can continue to play extremely well. Not to mention if Aaron Ross can stay healthy he can be a factor as well.

Go_Eagles77 · 01-05-2010, 03:49 PM

Remember when Antonio Cromartie looked like the best corner since Deion? Yeah...

FreshBoy! · 01-05-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

Ok, this inserting words in my mouth...it's got to stop. I never questioned why they were so high on him, I was simply wondering aloud if he can keep it up consistantly...my goodness. is reading comprehension really that hard guys?

My apologies if I misinterpreted what you were attempting to say. I just didn't see the point in comparing the two, or even bringing up Tnew. He's 30 years old, with numerous injuries...So sure, he had a very small of window of being top notch, but there's obviously reasons for that. I don't think anyone but Herniateddisc has annoited Mike Jenkins the best of the best. We're just happy to see him progress so much in a year, with hopes of him continuing to get better.

Supporting Caste · 01-05-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Let's face it, Newman is terrible now. He went from one of the best CBs in the league, to a below average one.

No, but you probably aren't interested in reasoning so keep thinking that.

Supporting Caste · 01-05-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

Why are you putting words in my mouth? When did I say he was not successful? I said he wasn't consistant as in he is nowhere close to how good he was just a year or 2 ago even. Cowboys fans were saying all this about T-New, and they were right...for about 2-3 years. Let's see if Jenkins keeps it up. T-New fell, HARD. I just want to see if Jenkins can keep up this level of play for more than 2-3 years. Let's see how good he really is. Many CB's go through hot streaks for a few years and fade out. THe special ones are guys like Champ, Nnamdi, McAlister, Woodson and perhaps even Revis who have consistantly been great.

So four years Newman is good, but because he ceased to be good after that long he was never consistently good.

Then you turn your standard upside down and say Nnamdi and Revis are examples of guys who were good long enough. Nnamdi and Revis haven't been good as long as Newman was.

Do you know what a hypocrite is?

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supporting Caste

So four years Newman is good, but because he ceased to be good after that long he was never consistently good.

Then you turn your standard upside down and say Nnamdi and Revis are examples of guys who were good long enough. Nnamdi and Revis haven't been good as long as Newman was.

Do you know what a hypocrite is?

T-New was at a good/great level of play for 2-3 years, while Nnamdi's been at it for 4 straight now and I said POTENTIALLY Revis.
But no, missing words, and interpreting things the way to go.

herniateddisc · 01-09-2010, 10:24 PM

Well it ain't Samuel or Brown.

Sniper · 01-09-2010, 10:46 PM

Jeremy Maclin says it certainly isn't Mike Jenkins.

kumar3112 · 01-09-2010, 10:47 PM

terrence newman just did a job on desean

Forenci · 01-09-2010, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herniateddisc

Well it ain't Samuel or Brown.

I kind of stopped paying attention after the third quarter but Jenkins got smoked on that Vick TD as well. He pretty much fell down.

From what I saw the rest of the game he was pretty good though. Still, it's tough to really say any player in this division is a 'shut down' corner. Jenkins/Terrell Thomas are probably the two guys with the best shot of becoming that.

Sniper · 01-09-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

I kind of stopped paying attention after the third quarter but Jenkins got smoked on that Vick TD as well. He pretty much fell down.

From what I saw the rest of the game he was pretty good though. Still, it's tough to really say any player in this division is a 'shut down' corner. Jenkins/Terrell Thomas are probably the two guys with the best shot of becoming that.

Maclin had 7 grabs for 146 yards and a touchdown. That's more total yards than Brown and Samuel gave up combined to the top two Dallas WRs, and I distinctly remember at least two of the Austin first downs being on Joselio Hanson.

herniateddisc · 01-09-2010, 10:53 PM

I also distinctly remember Austin running past Asante and drawing a penalty on Brown to set up TD #1.

Let us be real, the Eagles CB are good but not to the level of noise on this board. They benefit from a blitz happy scheme.

Forenci · 01-09-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper

Maclin had 7 grabs for 146 yards and a touchdown. That's more total yards than Brown and Samuel gave up combined to the top two Dallas WRs, and I distinctly remember at least two of the Austin first downs being on Joselio Hanson.

I still like Sheldon a lot. I think he's very good. I've never been a Samuels fan though. Takes way too many gambles for my liking. I know he creates turn overs, but at what cost? I've seen him gamble and come up empty more times than I have seen him grab an interception. Not saying he's bad or anything, but I've just never been a big supporter of him.

kumar3112 · 01-09-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herniateddisc

I also distinctly remember Austin running past Asante and drawing a penalty on Brown to set up TD #1.

Let us be real, the Eagles CB are good but not to the level of noise on this board. They benefit from a blitz happy scheme.

im a cowboys fan, but lets be real. asante was supposed to have help over the top by sheldon and i think thats why he gave some cushion in case of an underthrown ball.

Sniper · 01-09-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kumar3112

im a cowboys fan, but lets be real. asante was supposed to have help over the top by sheldon and i think thats why he gave some cushion in case of an underthrown ball.

Was Sheldon at safety?

herniateddisc · 01-09-2010, 10:56 PM

Maclin had the most useless 146 yard night I have ever seen.

His big play came on busted coverage with the CB slipping and a QB/Dog Killer throwing the ball. Made the play -- great -- but nothing was systematic.