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NFC East Division Forum Discuss the NFC East

View Poll Results: Best NFC East DB?
Asante Samuel, CB, Philadelphia 28 37.33%
Corey Webster, CB, New York 24 32.00%
Sheldon Brown, CB, Philadelphia 14 18.67%
Carlos Rogers, CB, Washington 1 1.33%
Other (please indicate who) 8 10.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2009, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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As for the East, Brown and CWeb are both better than Asante, Asante gambles too much.
That's what he gets the big bucks for.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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That's what he gets the big bucks for.
It was much needed in Philly. You guys needed a turnover guy in that secondary. I just prefer my INT guys to be safeties, I prefer the coverage CBs like the Browns and the Websters of the world.

Just a personal preference.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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That's what he gets the big bucks for.
And it isn't like Asante is bad, he always plays the #1 receiver and he does a good job. He was beaten by Marques Colston and that is it. You can look at all the metrics you want, but those don't really apply to Asante Samuel since it is hard to judge him based off those metric just because Asante is in zone coverage more often than not so it isn't set in stone as to who his coverage responsibility is and in general not everything can be broken down to a metric because unlike baseball everything in football is dependent on the team not the individual.

But from the games I've watched this season the only receiver who has beaten Asante has been Colston. Other than that he has shut down Steve Smith in Carolina, shut down the receivers of the Buccaneers, Chiefs, Redskins and Raiders and he did a nice job of playing against Steve Smith against the Giants and held him in check most of the game.

Asante Samuel is a good corner when it comes to taking his receiver out of the game, he is better than most. And he might be the best ball-hawking corner in the NFL, nobody baits the QB, breaks on the ball and gets their hands on more balls. Asante Samuel led the NFL is passes defended last season and is currently tied for third amongst corners. And in the past 3 1/2 regulard seasons, Asante Samuel has 25 interceptions, 60 passes defended, 2 touchdowns and if you add in the post season, that total jumps to 30 interceptions, 74 passes defended and 5 touchdowns. In 3.5 seasons, those would be great career numbers for most players.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen enough of the Eagles to say this with conviction, but from what ive gathered, it seems like the Eagles leave Asante in bracket coverage a lot, and leave Sheldon on an island a lot.

Like, they'll give Asante that safety up top bc it gives him more opportunities to jump routes and gamble, which is what he does best.

Sheldon however, is usually left on an island and has to fend for himself.

I could be wrong, I need to see more tape to confirm it. That was just a quick observation on my part.

Maybe an Eagles fan can confirm or deny it?
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Fair assumption, he doesn't get help every play but he does get it more often than Sheldon but that is the scheme, Asante is one of the best zone corners in the NFL and the Eagles put him in zone a lot more than they do with Sheldon and that typically means there is safety help over the top.

Also it isn't really a fault of Asante that this occurs, it is simply the Eagles defensive coaches putting Asante in a position to do what he does best.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Fair assumption, he doesn't get help every play but he does get it more often than Sheldon but that is the scheme, Asante is one of the best zone corners in the NFL and the Eagles put him in zone a lot more than they do with Sheldon and that typically means there is safety help over the top.

Also it isn't really a fault of Asante that this occurs, it is simply the Eagles defensive coaches putting Asante in a position to do what he does best.
Outsiders don't realize it bc they think exclusive man coverage with a 46 style defense, but the Eagles really are more of a ZB team than a man coverage team.

They do rely a lot on man as well though bc they run so much zero blitz. But more often than not, they run ZB.

I guess you can say theyre a mix of the 2, just like the Giants.

Asante is the perfect Cover 2 CB though. He fits in with what the Eagles do, but his best scheme is a Cover 2. He'd get 10 INTs a season in that scheme.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Outsiders don't realize it bc they think exclusive man coverage with a 46 style defense, but the Eagles really are more of a ZB team than a man coverage team.

They do rely a lot on man as well though bc they run so much zero blitz. But more often than not, they run ZB.

I guess you can say theyre a mix of the 2, just like the Giants.

Asante is the perfect Cover 2 CB though. He fits in with what the Eagles do, but his best scheme is a Cover 2. He'd get 10 INTs a season in that scheme.
Asante gets his hands on a ridiculous amount of footballs, and he drops so many interceptions, he must've dropped 2 or 3 already this season. He might have some of the worst hands of any CB in the NFL but he breaks so well and he reads the eyes of the CB so well that he just gets so many more opportunities than other corners. The interception he dropped in the super-bowl against the Giants is a perfect example of this, he does that often.

And personally I think the Eagles scheme is ideal for him, he plays in zone less than he would if he were in the Tampa-2 but the ZBS is also more attacking and it forces more quick decisions, throws off the back foot, errant throws and just overall it forces mistakes and Asante is the best guy in the NFL to take advantage of those mistakes.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Sheldon Brown, imo.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Sheldon Brown, imo.
Not tonight.

Mike Jenkins continues to prove legitimacy. He and Terrell Thomas are the next best up and comers.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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Whats happening with Webster now, he is getting abused out there. Is it because there is not enough pressure off the line now?
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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Austin burnt Brown for a long td that sealed the game. While Mike Jenkins shined with two ints. Ha!
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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Austin burnt Brown for a long td that sealed the game. While Mike Jenkins shined with two ints. Ha!
I thought you were gone, dammit. Anyways, that was Browns only TD given up all season, Jenkins has surrendered 2 touchdowns and in addition I'm not really sure what game you watched, but the one I saw (and the one everyone else saw) was the one where Mike Jenkins had one interception and Sheldon had 1 as well.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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Lol I love everytime one of them is burnt people come running here to proclaim they are now not the best. Really who cares. The top 3 are Webster, Brown, and Asante, all who make mistakes once in a while because all 3 of them are fringe top 5-10 CB's but not I don't think any of them are in the elite 2 or 3 category in the league.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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That's fair, but to be a homer, that really was the first time Sheldon was burnt like that in years as far as I can remember. I still wouldn't call hiim a top 2-3 corner though.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Vincent Jackson is the first WR to own CWeb. Web just isn't big enough to cover Jackson.

Jackson is the new Plax. The guy is huge, strong, fast, he's pretty much uncoverable.


Right now, I gotta give it to Sheldon Brown.

Like D said though, Terrell Thomas is developing into a stud. I love Terrell Thomas.

Jenkins is looking good too.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I like Thomas' play. Nah also last week against the Eagles Maclin had that TD grab on him. I thought for sure he would have slapped it out of Maclin's hands.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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I kinda want the eagles to draft a young stud like Webster/Jenkins/Thomas next year that can be a great nickel back until Brown leaves. Joe Haden would be great.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I like Thomas' play. Nah also last week against the Eagles Maclin had that TD grab on him. I thought for sure he would have slapped it out of Maclin's hands.
Yeah, I forgot about that. But that play was impossible to defend. Web played it perfectly, but you can't defend against a perfect pass/catch.

Im not the most experienced guy in the world, but having played FS and CB, every now and then you just get the perfect pass thrown at you, and no matter how well you covered it, theres no way to defend it.

Its kind of like playing textbook defense on a guy in basketball, and him still getting the shot. You can do everything right sometimes, and still have the guy score on you.

It happens.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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The thing we keep reiterating with Jenkins, is confidence. A year ago, he may get a little upset or rattled after that illegal contact flag he had yesterday. Not anymore. He just looked unfazed, starts bobbing his head and gets right back in there and makes a play. haha. His confidence is through the roof, just like it was when he played for USF. Jenkins is legit and he hasnt been beat in a very long time. He just keeps getting better and better still. The potential here, is outstanding. I believe LL said it yesterday as well, he is our best DB right now.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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I remember when it looked like Orlando Scandrick was the better of the two. Scandrick still looks pretty good, but Jenkins is starting to show why he was a 1st round pick. I might even take him over McKelvin, DRC, and Talib, who were all picked ahead of Jenkins and have all shown flashes, but can all get burnt too.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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I loved Jenkins coming out. I actually wanted the Giants to move up and get him in that draft.

I loved Jenkins, Cason, DRC, Porter and Flowers. Didn't really know much about TT.

I'm very pleased with what we have though. TT might be my 3rd favorite defender on the team.

The Cowboys needed Jenkins to step up, now that TNew is washed up. Thats been the difference in that defense. It relies on a shutdown CB, and for the first couple of weeks, they didn't have one.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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That was definitely a great CB class. Most of them selected in the first couple rounds are not only starters, but are very solid corners.

Round 1
Leodis McKelvin
Dominique Roders-Cromartie
Aquib Talib
Mike Jenkins
Antoine Cason


Round 2
Brandon Flowers
Tracy Porter

Patrick Lee
Terrence Wheatley
Terrell Thomas


Round 3
Charles Godfrey
Chevis Jackson

Reggie Smith
Antwuan Molden

Round 4
Tyvon Branch
Justin King
Dwight Lowery
Reggie Corner

Jack Williams
Justin Tryon
Jonathan Wilhite
Jack Ikegwuonu

Round 5
Brandon Carr
Zack Bowman
Orlando Scandrick

Trae Williams

Round 6
DeJuan Tribble

Round 7
Wilrey Fontenot
Cary Williams
Kennard Cox

The bolded are the ones that to my knowledge have all had very solid contributions to their teams, some like Pat Lee, Reggie Smith and Jonathan Wilhite I'm not too sure about. Damn why couldn't Jack Ikegwuonu turn out to be a player?
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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I have never seen Newman make an INT the way Jenkins did yesterday. But not to disrespect Newman... he had many a great day in the past. He's just no longer what he used to be. I wonder if moving him to Safety wouldn't be a bad idea. That could solve our FS needs momentarily and allow Scandrick more playing time. Jenkins has definitely emerged as hoped, but Scandrick is still going to be a key player for us in the long term future. He's better than being given credit for right now.

I'd love to see us draft a corner... Syd'Quan Thompson currently has my heart locked up.
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77 View Post
I remember when it looked like Orlando Scandrick was the better of the two. Scandrick still looks pretty good, but Jenkins is starting to show why he was a 1st round pick. I might even take him over McKelvin, DRC, and Talib, who were all picked ahead of Jenkins and have all shown flashes, but can all get burnt too.
It was one of those situations where Scandrick came out more ready to play immediately, but never had the potential for greatness that Jenkins did. Scandrick was out playing him for most of last year, and it was even this year, and while Scandrick has continued to be solid in the slot Jenkins hasn't looked back. Jenkins has even gotten 10x more physical with running through RB's now when we all now that wasn't his forte' last year at all.


Talib has been good but he is in the perfect fit, if he was in our scheme being asked to play man as much as Jenkins is(or really any corner in our scheme) he would struggle heavily. He gets to face the QB quite a bit in Tampa and make reads, he's always been great at that, but the off the field stuff would of gotten way more attention in Dallas.


DRC physically is still the best, just like he showed at the combine, but almost like his cousin he makes the big play then gives up the big play. I still almost always see him with blanket coverage though, and he still has some growth.


McKelvin looked very good in what I did see of him, almost all of us Dallas fans wanted him here and for good reason. Cason I heard got demoted recently after starting good, Flowers is a stud and I wanted him if Jenkins is gone, and so is Porter, a really deep class. Let's see how the season plays out for some of the younger guys.



Webster is still a beast at Corner, but Jackson is a monster and it wasn't even fair. I have no clue who we are going to put on him, or how we plan on covering him, but it wasn't working out well for NY. Still he's a top 5 WR in the league, no shame in getting beat by a player of his caliber.



I want to see Jenkins go up against Colston and Jackson before crowning him, at this point he's just made some very good progression week to week and it's nice to have a corner who can cover but actually has great ball skills.


I really, really want to see Aaron Ross get back to 100% for NY though, he was another corner who had great ball skills and can be a play-maker at corner. Still see no reason why Webster isn't the best corner right now, but I would have no problem throwing Jenkins name out there if he can handle his own vs Colston and Jackson later this year.
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