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View Poll Results: Best NFC East DB?
Asante Samuel, CB, Philadelphia 28 37.33%
Corey Webster, CB, New York 24 32.00%
Sheldon Brown, CB, Philadelphia 14 18.67%
Carlos Rogers, CB, Washington 1 1.33%
Other (please indicate who) 8 10.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2009, 09:55 PM    (permalink
herniateddisc
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Originally Posted by BaLLiN72 View Post
Vincent Jackson made Asmougha look awful... And i honestly dont understand this, but when a CB makes a pick or two they're automatically considered great. Terrell Thomas is doing exactly what Aaron Ross started to do, part of the reason why Antonio Cromartie has been awful and Mike Jenkins from what i saw did it on occasion.

They play off coverage and are very high in their backpedal, basically are staring into the quarterback's eyes the entire time and trying to bait him into a bad throw. Then when they break on the ball they ALWAYS go for the pick, or have gotten themselves out of position. This leads to alot of yards gained, instead of making the quarterback make a good throw they try to get themselves a pick.
Jenkins is more a quick twitch guy than a fast guy (though he is fast). Fast in the phone booth.

I think the guy you mention are faster but not quite as explosive from what I see on the field.

Again, not saying he is the best in the league but in the NFC East, right now, yeah.

Anyway to get stats on what the Completion Rate is to his guy??????
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Great, no need for worry whatsoever. I must be crazy.
Give me a few specific reasons why I should be worried about Webster then. Like I said one bad game doesn't change the fact that he's playing as one of the top 5 CB's in the NFL. If you're going to tell me Webster is going to revert back to his pre '07 days then at least tell me why.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Give me a few specific reasons why I should be worried about Webster then. Like I said one bad game doesn't change the fact that he's playing as one of the top 5 CB's in the NFL. If you're going to tell me Webster is going to revert back to his pre '07 days then at least tell me why.
Because your pass rush is nowhere near as good as 2008/07, he has horrid safety play to cover up for him, and WR can run past him with ease.

Other than that, no reason to worry.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Why? Just watch the game and watch how he plays. He tracks the receiver fluidly, he is able to find the flight of the ball even with his back turned, he is getting better at reading routes and understanding how pass rush alters it, he has good hands and he has excellent speed on the field ....

He is not ACCOMPLISHED yet but he is playing as well as any CB right now in the NFC East.
I hate to use stats for corners but since you've never watched Corey Webster play:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=2260&group=7
vs Mike Jenkins
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=4339&group=7

So not only is corey giving away a less yards per catch but he's also giving up less catches. Granted Sheldon Brown has given less catches than either one, but he's giving up the most yards per catch of the trio as well. Jenkins is playing well, but you're exaggerating how well. All three have a good pass rush so that nullifies that excuse. As for corey if you look at when he's been beat it's been by Maclin for that one TD on a perfect throw and catch, which he couldn't have done better at defending, and by a much bigger WR in Vjax who caught all the passes he took against aso and even holds the only TD scored on Aso this season.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Because your pass rush is nowhere near as good as 2008/07, he has horrid safety play to cover up for him, and WR can run past him with ease.

Other than that, no reason to worry.
Corey had a mediocre pass rush last season and was still dominant. He had horrid safety play last year as well. And name a WR other than Vincent Jackson who "[ran] past him with ease"
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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He without a doubt got beat by dwayne bowe to let the CHIEFS, the CHIEFS, tie the game and force it into overtime.

Champ locked recievers down, jenkins is good, but he can't be called equal by playing a game of cat and mouse and chasing after picks.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Because your pass rush is nowhere near as good as 2008/07, he has horrid safety play to cover up for him, and WR can run past him with ease.

Other than that, no reason to worry.
Then why was he playing so great untill the SD game?
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Not gunna lie though, coming out of college mike jenkins seemed better than Darrelle Revis, and i dont care anything about numbers on Revis, he is top 5 in the league at his position.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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I hate to use stats for corners but since you've never watched Corey Webster play:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=2260&group=7
vs Mike Jenkins
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=4339&group=7

So not only is corey giving away a less yards per catch but he's also giving up less catches. Granted Sheldon Brown has given less catches than either one, but he's giving up the most yards per catch of the trio as well. Jenkins is playing well, but you're exaggerating how well. All three have a good pass rush so that nullifies that excuse. As for corey if you look at when he's been beat it's been by Maclin for that one TD on a perfect throw and catch, which he couldn't have done better at defending, and by a much bigger WR in Vjax who caught all the passes he took against aso and even holds the only TD scored on Aso this season.
Great stats.

You do understand part of reason (today) Webster has less throws his way than Jenkins is that comparatively the GMen's other CB is inferior to Newman? Also given how the Safety play of the GMen is why bother???

Webster has decent technique and is a fluid athlete but he is slow and can be had badly without a great pass rush or above average safety play to cover up for him. That is my position.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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I thought Revis was the best CB to come out of that class. I was hoping we'd trade up for him or he would somehow fall to us. I loved his game at Pitt.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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Not gunna lie though, coming out of college mike jenkins seemed better than Darrelle Revis, and i dont care anything about numbers on Revis, he is top 5 in the league at his position.
I love Revis. I think he is as good as anyone right now. Even Champ.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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But lets take a moment to honor the worst DB in the NFC east, maybe the league.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=2405&group=7
LOL
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Then why was he playing so great untill the SD game?
He was not. He was just not playing as badly as the rest of your D.

Look at the NO game for proof.

Why bother going after Webster when you have so many more juicy targets to abuse mercilessly.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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But lets take a moment to honor the worst DB in the NFC east, maybe the league.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=2405&group=7
LOL
He is your Roy Williams #31.

What goes around comes around.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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He was not. He was just not playing as badly as the rest of your D.

Look at the NO game for proof.

Why bother going after Webster when you have so many more juicy targets to abuse mercilessly.
If that's what you really think then whatever. I'm done chasing around in this conversation.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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Corey Webster vs Santana Moss arguably one of the most explosive wideouts in the NFL. Webster not only gave him negative yardage, he got a sideline interception. Speed is obviously not an issue.

The issue really was safety help and his inability to track the ball, he was in decent/good coverage.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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He without a doubt got beat by dwayne bowe to let the CHIEFS, the CHIEFS, tie the game and force it into overtime.

Champ locked recievers down, jenkins is good, but he can't be called equal by playing a game of cat and mouse and chasing after picks.
No doubt he will get beat and no doubt he needs to improve.

That is why I said if he can start getting the CALLS on those tight plays it will give him confidence to play physical and take chances ......... which is his game.

If he is allowed to play as physical as Asante, he will be a monster because he has very good top end speed to avoid getting beat deep and he has that TWITCH to jump routes with the hands to get picks.

New man, for example, would be great if he had hands but he does not. The guy drops 4-5 INT per year.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Corey Webster vs Santana Moss arguably one of the most explosive wideouts in the NFL. Webster not only gave him negative yardage, he got a sideline interception. Speed is obviously not an issue.

The issue really was safety help and his inability to track the ball, he was in decent/good coverage.
Jason Campbell. Jason friggin Campbell.

Raiders QB made Randy Moss look like an UDFA.

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Old 11-10-2009, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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If that's what you really think then whatever. I'm done chasing around in this conversation.
Don't bother, just watch the rest of the season and see what happens.

Take care.

And BTW, I thought the GMen has a pretty good pass rush last year. 42 sacks right? Number 3 Defense? You don't get that unless you can get to the QB.

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Old 11-10-2009, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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If thats his game then power to him, sooner or later he'll become the goat of the defense as Antonio Cromartie did, he cant be constantly going off of instincts, because double moves will always get you. Dominic Rodgers-Cromartie saw that often, but he adjusted and has been playing on and being physical. Jenkins isn't that type of player, he also isnt just an Asante Samuel type player (aka freelance) he is a solid cover guy, but he'll have to learn his lesson first possibly.

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Jason Campbell. Jason friggin Campbell.
eh, you really cant blame campbell, santanna was one on one the entire night, the announcers frequently showed moss's inability to shake webster. They even got into a fight because of his frustration. the sideline interception was all campbells fault tho, moss didnt attempt to bat it down or anything but campbell shouldve just thrown it away.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:31 PM    (permalink
BaLLiN
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and no, the raiders are just awful, its coaching, and Al. Although Moss had a horrible attitude, ever since he has had a tendency to disappear from games on occasion.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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Great stats.

You do understand part of reason (today) Webster has less throws his way than Jenkins is that comparatively the GMen's other CB is inferior to Newman? Also given how the Safety play of the GMen is why bother???

Webster has decent technique and is a fluid athlete but he is slow and can be had badly without a great pass rush or above average safety play to cover up for him. That is my position.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=1321&group=7
vs
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=4377&group=7

wanna try again?

As for our safeties Michael Johnson's actually good in coverage, CC Brown is trash and yes he does get burnt a lot but that would make Webster's numbers more impressive since he doesn't get help over top from Brown.

As for your position it happens to be wrong but don't let that stop you from maintaining it.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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But i can tell you right now, if mike jenkins tried to do what he does against peyton manning, champ comparisons would be opposite.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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He was not. He was just not playing as badly as the rest of your D.

Look at the NO game for proof.

Why bother going after Webster when you have so many more juicy targets to abuse mercilessly.
Great example, except it disproves your point about Webster's talent, Webster played well against NO, in fact both of our outside guys did well in that game, we just got torn a new ass hole in the middle where CC Brown is turrible and with Boley out our LBs were slower than dirt as well. So our pass d struggled. There's absolutely no way you can fault Webster for our middle cover guys sucking. As for this why go after Webster notion, teams don't really, but that's because he's great at covering guys, that's why his averages are so great, he doesn't give up big catches and does a great job preventing catches. What's impressive aren't his totals which would be effected by being shied away from but his averages.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=1321&group=7
vs
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_p...d=4377&group=7

wanna try again?

As for our safeties Michael Johnson's actually good in coverage, CC Brown is trash and yes he does get burnt a lot but that would make Webster's numbers more impressive since he doesn't get help over top from Brown.

As for your position it happens to be wrong but don't let that stop you from maintaining it.
Call me a dunce but if I am throwing the ball versus the GMen, I would go after everyone but Webster for obvious reasons.

If throwing the ball v the Cowboys, that call is somewhat more difficult becasue the Secondary in Dallas is a bit better right now.

So, not sure, the stats quite capture that nor is the data really supporting the argument.
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