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Old 09-30-2009, 10:23 PM    (permalink
wonderbredd24
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
That's ********. A WR probably has the least in his control on whether his team is successful or not, so i don't know why you're trying to use Super Bowl wins as a barometer for greatness between Rice and Moss.
Doesn't that make his achievements more impressive?

Superbowl XXIII - 11 catches, 215 yards, 1 TD, and the MVP
Superbowl XXIV - 7 catches, 148 yards, 3 TDs
Superbowl XXIX - 10 catches, 149 yards, 3 TDs
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Watch This Video! I love DeAngelo Hall's story at the beginning.

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Old 09-30-2009, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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He is a very good WR, but eventually when his knees and speed gives out he is going to have to find something else to help keep him a dangerous weapon.

Guys like Smith and Rice, once their speed gave out, they still managed to stay sharp with route running, blocking, getting better at the smaller things.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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One of the best WR's of all time when motivated. Was great in Minnesota, quit on the team in Oakland, and so far is great in New England.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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a few thoughts

1) didnt rice play on the raiders too?...he didnt make them better either thus making the whole "what did randy do in oakland" argument silly.

2) saying rice has more rings than randy is evidence that he is better is bull...along those lines of thinking one must also come to the conclusion that bradshaw is better than marino or that robert horry is a million times better than karl malone.

3) there is no doubt that rice had the better career and when looking at their career as a whole than rice is the better reciever...but its equally as obvious that moss at the peak of his game was better than rice at the peak of his game....same goes for my greatest boxer argument...yea ali had a better career and you would be a fool to think that he wasnt better than tyson under that theory...but give me a prime 1987 iron mike over any version of ali....so who's ultimately "better"?...depends on how you look at it i reckon.
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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a few thoughts

1) didnt rice play on the raiders too?...he didnt make them better either thus making the whole "what did randy do in oakland" argument silly.

2) saying rice has more rings than randy is evidence that he is better is bull...along those lines of thinking one must also come to the conclusion that bradshaw is better than marino or that robert horry is a million times better than karl malone.

3) there is no doubt that rice had the better career and when looking at their career as a whole than rice is the better reciever...but its equally as obvious that moss at the peak of his game was better than rice at the peak of his game....same goes for my greatest boxer argument...yea ali had a better career and you would be a fool to think that he wasnt better than tyson under that theory...but give me a prime 1987 iron mike over any version of ali....so who's ultimately "better"?...depends on how you look at it i reckon.
Rice went to the Super Bowl with the Raiders, what is this about him not making the team better?

Boxing example aside, I would take Rice's peak over Moss's in a second. Perfection.
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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Watch This Video! I love DeAngelo Hall's story at the beginning.

This video makes me want another really strong armed QB on the vikings.
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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This video makes me want another really strong armed QB on the vikings.
What about teh favruh>
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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he still jogs routes and has a sense of entitlement which is another reason i'd never put him in the top spot
Which makes you wonder, how good would he have been if he actually had a consistent work ethic? Pretty scary to think about.

Randy gets by on talent a lot of the time. I think Calvin Johnson is going to be what Randy should have been.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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Which makes you wonder, how good would he have been if he actually had a consistent work ethic? Pretty scary to think about.

Randy gets by on talent a lot of the time. I think Calvin Johnson is going to be what Randy should have been.
Calvin is a much bulkier wideout than Randy ever was. I know all about the 4.35 and I'll drool about Megatron any day of the week, but Randy has always had an extra gear that can only be described as pure insanity that I'm not quite sure Calvin can get to. I obviously think Calvin is going to be amazing for a very long time, dominant in fact, but it's going to take more than that to put Randy in the rear view mirror.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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Which makes you wonder, how good would he have been if he actually had a consistent work ethic? Pretty scary to think about.

Randy gets by on talent a lot of the time. I think Calvin Johnson is going to be what Randy should have been.
While I think that's possible let's see Megatron become the player that Randy is before saying he's going to be the player Randy was supposed to be.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Calvin is a much bulkier wideout than Randy ever was. I know all about the 4.35 and I'll drool about Megatron any day of the week, but Randy has always had an extra gear that can only be described as pure insanity that I'm not quite sure Calvin can get to. I obviously think Calvin is going to be amazing for a very long time, dominant in fact, but it's going to take more than that to put Randy in the rear view mirror.
So far in his career he's had Jon Kitna, Drew Stanton, Dan Orlovsky, Daunte' Culpepper (bad Daunte') and Matt Stafford throwing to him. Calvin's potential is flat out scary, plus from all accounts he has a very strong work ethic.

It will take a lot for him to get to Randy's level. Playing in Detroit might hinder that as well (along with the development of Stafford), but Calvin has every physical tool you look for in a franchise WR. What he lacks in speed he makes up for in size.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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While I think that's possible let's see Megatron become the player that Randy is before saying he's going to be the player Randy was supposed to be.
It's a prediction. Or maybe you missed the "I believe" part of my post.

In college and the pros Megatron hasn't had a legitimate QB throwing to him. While Daunte' was overrated with Minnesota he was certainly better than anything Megatron has had so far.

He made Reggie Ball look half-way decent at times with Georgia Tech. My worry is whether or not he'll have a legit QB throwing to him in his career at Detroit. If there is one variable that Stafford has going for him it's that he can throw to Megatron any time he wants to. He's certainly one of those players that can make a QB look good.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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Theres no doubt in my mind Calvin will be a great WR and the best WR in the NFL in a year or 2, but better than Moss in his prime? I only see 1 Wr all time better than Moss in his prime(Rice).

Man I was a big fan of Calvin during his draft, thought he was with out a doubt the #1 prospect and wanted him, him and Moss on the same team would be scary. But we draft Russell and trade Moss for a 4th... go raiders?
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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I'll go with the cliche on Moss and say he's the most talented wide receiver of all time, probably has the most impact of any receiver that's ever played the game...but Rice was better because he had a better head on his shoulders(although Moss has been fine for us).
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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Can you imagine if he hadn't had 3 down years, his last in minnesota and his two in oakland how much better his numbers could've been.
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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Jerry Rice is the greatest football player I've ever seen play. I can't put anyone above him
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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Moss'd him
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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1. Jerry Rice
2. Randy Moss

And it's debateable from there but you have to have these guys in this order to begin any credible list.
I'd support this. Jerry Rice dominated. Dominated.
Dominated.
Dominated.

Yeah i can repeat that ad infinitum. Cornerbacks had to play better than their A game to compete with him.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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Whats with Don Maynard
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Randy Moss will go down as the 2nd best WR of all time, and will be considered the greatest deep threat to ever play the game.

No WR in NFL history has ever dictated a defensive gameplan like Randy Moss has. He's the most intimidating WR Ive ever seen.

That said, no one can touch Jerry Rice.

Jerry Rice is and probably always will be the GOAT at WR.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by roscoesdad27 View Post
Didnt rice play on the raiders too?...he didnt make them better either thus making the whole "what did randy do in oakland" argument silly.
Umm Rice did make them better they had a few pretty good years when Rice was there even made the SB.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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rice is better for a west coast or mike martz type offense because of his precision routes, willingness to go accross the middle and yac ability....moss is better for a power run/playaction offense (esp. one with a strong armed q.b.) because of his vertical/ jump ball abilities which would keep the box clean for the running game....if i could pick one (in their prime) to play for my team (ravens) right now i would pick moss without hesitation altho i would love to have either....if i was a west coast team i would easily take rice in his prime...thats how close these guys are, it comes down to scheme.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Umm Rice did make them better they had a few pretty good years when Rice was there even made the SB.
yea you got me there but you cant sham on the fact that moss was on the 2 best offenses of all times...its a wash as far as making teammates better imho, which was my point.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Moss can go up the middle and run short routes. He did it plenty against the Bills.

When asked to do it, he does it and does it well.

But theres really no point of him doing that. His job is to stretch the field. His deep routes are the reason why Wes Welker is so effective underneath. He stretches and opens up the field for the rest of his team to catch underneath routes.

He's at his best when he's stretching the field and taking both safeties along with him for the ride.

Asking him to run up the middle underneath is like having a Ferrari and taking it grocery shopping.

You have the beater car for that.
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